64 dart brake/suspension upgrade

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jslay63

jslay63

slay
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been a while since ive been on here! looking to go to a disc brake set up on the front of my 64 dart. was thinking about just spending the money and getting a wilwood bolt on kit and having the piece of mind. but i have been reading alot on here of just using later model stuff and making it work. what would the better choice be? is it worth doing a wilwood set up or am i better off the other rout. also i want to revamp the front end. looking at a pollygraphite kit from pst. any thoughts on that? thanks for the help!
 
Lots of posts and opinions on both topics, so read up. If you go with BBP disks, swap the rear-end too or carry 2 spares. Poly bushings require lubing so they don't squeak. Sounds like they are more for circle-track racers, but perhaps they last longer than rubber. Their LCA bushings scare some people (could T-bar slide out?).
 
I had a 64 dart gt with the 73 dart sport brakes/spindles. I used the poly upper a frame bushings and the strut rod bushings were poly, it made a big difference. used 225 50 15 tires. I used the torsion bars from the v8 car. I used 1973 disc A body lower ball joint that matched right up to my drag link. Even though I did not have the sway bar, the car handled extremely well and stopped great with the '73 dart disc rotors. Only prob was the bolt pattern deal but I never got around to swapping out the rear before I sold the car. So I would recommend the factory stuff and I would use the F body spindle's if I were to do it over. (eventhough this has caused some controversy in the past)
 
Stay 100% Mopar. Use the '73-up A body spindles and brake hardware. The only problem you would have is if you had the early A body front sway bar. In which you would swap your spindles from one side to the other. You will here plenty of people groan about swapping the spindles from side to side but the concern is minimal.
that way you won't have the GM master cylinder in engine bay. If you want power brakes you can buy power booster & master cylinder as a complete set at auto parts store. You would have to find an A body power booster bracket.
 
I am not sure what 'peace of mind' the Wilwood conversion would bring over the stock brakes....?? They both work fine. I would prefer the stock conversion for cost and for not worrying about F-R brake balance....with the proportioning valves that are right. However, the Wilwood set may weight less, and that is a postive for good handling over less-than-billiardbroad smooth roads.

Poly bushings can be hard on the chassis parts if you don't drive all the time on pretty smooth pavement; they are a lot harder than rubber. They DO stiffen things up quite a bit. Personally, I find re-new stock rubber does a very good job; I would try to buy NOS parts; some of the new stuff is fine but some is made from the wrong hardness of rubber and some parts are too soft out of the box.

Look at Addco for anti-sway bars; they sell both front and reat anti-sway bars; I would be putting on both to keep roll stiffness balanced front to rear. Once you put them on, find a large parking lot and drive arond hard in circles to get a feel for if the car is pushing or the rear wants to slide out so you can adjust some.

And for imporved handling, you realy need to look at a good set of gas shocks.
 
I have done the all mopar conversion on a 63 Valiant(even a power booster) and it worked out great.Also the aftermarket kits such as SSBC that is on my 64 Dart(photo) Cost will be less for the mopar set up.Aftermarket kits I have had dealings with ,Baer,SSBC,Wilwood all do the same job,price it the only difference.
For street use I'm with the others and still like rubber bushings.
 

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BillGrissom said:
... Their LCA bushings scare some people (could T-bar slide out?).
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I've used them on a street driven 1967 Barracuda and what bothers me is, it seems like the lower control arm can move rearward, within the confines of the torsion bar socket. I'm replacing all the bushing with MOOG this summer. I also do not like all the noises from the front end.
 
That cl setup is $275 used, plus you must buy rotor-hubs. If me, ~$700 for a Wilwood kit seems a better deal since much lighter w/ better fixed 4-pot calipers instead of "sliders". For any front disk kit, you need to plan the whole car, like wheels, rear-end, sway bars.
 
I'm a brake snob. I really dislike and distrust sliding calipers. They are a constant maintenance item if you want them operating at their best all of the time. They're also not terribly rigid. I'm also the guy that designed the hub forgings that the wilwood FDB kit's use (converted the previous casting design to a forging in '00 or '01). I like the general wilwood concept because of the lower unsprung weight, but they do have some considerations.

What I don't like about most of the wilwood calipers for street use is the lack of dust boots. Dust boots are a FVMSS or DOT requirement. You folks in states where you have annual/bi-annual inspections, lacking these may be a problem - dunno, don't live there. To the best of my knowledge the DynaPro's, and not every p/n at that, are the only wilwood calipers with dust boots. At one time there were some other calipers slated to get the dust boots, but I've no info on that - so research is required.

I consider the venerable Dynalite to be a drag car only caliper. Some of their other calipers will linearly modulate lightyears better. The caliper named above would be a decent jumping-off point for this if it is an interest or concern. Take a hard look at what is really used in road racing, those are the calipers to use, not the Dynalite's.

I like AR Engineering's brackets to put wilwood calipers on the OE rotors (what I'm running with DynaPro's), I just have to wonder at why steel? They weigh a ton more than they need to. If it weren't for their plating I'd have already clamped them in the mill and given them an extreme lipo-suction.

There are also some non-aftermarket options, but those all will require a custom bracket. Some of those brackets could be extremely simple to fab at home.
 
ntsqd said:
I'm a brake snob. I really dislike and distrust sliding calipers.
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Wow, you live in a rough world since probably 95% of all production cars use sliding calipers.=P~ While they may not be the best from an engineering only basis, they (as a general rule) hold up really well in all kinds of bad weather & are the cheapest to build. Not sure why you would say they are high maintenance, generally just change the fluid once in a while, keep the pins lubed & you're good to go.

Lucky you live in so-cal, our cars in the northeast get a continuous salt bath for 4 months out of the year. I like the Wilwood setup a lot for reasons mentioned & use them on my '65 but would never consider them for a daily driver for corrosion issues.

If you think the mentioned iron calipers are heavy, you should check out the old Budd calipers used on 66-68 C-bodies, they must weigh 10 lbs. a piece.
 
Keeping them sliding such that both sides of the caliper apply equally is almost impossible. There is a reason that the inside pads always wear out first. In a really, really good design that has been well maintained the difference in wear can be marginal, but it's there.

Of the 5 vehicles that I own (3 operational) only two have sliding calipers and of the fixed caliper vehicles only one has aftermarket calipers on it. The other two are common as dirt OE fixed calipers. Every Toyota 4wd pick-up and Land Cruisers from the FJ-60 on use cast iron, 4 piston fixed calipers. The issue with them is that characteristically they all use a thin rotor.The early trucks used a non-vented rotor that was a whopping 17mm thick. The later trucks and the FJ-60's use rotors that are vented, but only 19mm thick.
 
thanks for all the info! its not going to be a daily driver. just want something reliable. i didnt really think about thinking ahead to the wheels and stuff. i would like to keep the rallys i have on it, but i guess ill have to measure. its going to be a little while till i do anything due to the fact im stationed in nc and the car is in pa so i guess i have some time to plan!
 
Got a set of the '73 stuff from Craigslist. Rock Auto had rebuilt calipers with pads for $18 a pair, no core charge, at closeout. Love them.
 
Just learned my 64 cuda needs new brakes in the rear (parts missing after shop pulled them apart). How much should a set of new disc brakes cost without labor. Don't need slotted or drilled variety, just something modern that will stop the car. Lastly, how much shop labor is involved..estimate for both fron and rear. I'm being quoted around 4k for parts and labor which seems way too high...
 
Need vs. want rear discs.

Can buy hardware kits for drum brakes that should have all of it. Would be the least cost option.

If you're determined to go discs, what sort of features do you need or want? Parking brake? Fixed calipers vs. floating calipers? etc.
 
66fs said:
What do you have now? You know you do not need disc in the rear?
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Car currently has drums front and back. Seems the back is a mess of missing pieces (came that way from prior owner). I'm OK with drums and drums. Not going to be setting any speed records, just some nice summer driving. Can we get OEM drums these days?
 
abuong01 said:
Car currently has drums front and back. Seems the back is a mess of missing pieces (came that way from prior owner). I'm OK with drums and drums. Not going to be setting any speed records, just some nice summer driving. Can we get OEM drums these days?
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If it has 9 inch brakes you can still get parts if it has 10 inch drums are no longer made.
 
dang, just get 67 brakes. Non sliders, bolts on, All Kelsey-Hays (Mopar/Ford supplier) parts are still out there.
 
Find out what size you have, 10" or 9". Then have them measured to see what you really need. Hardware is around and you can probably find everything else.
 
I went with all Mopar BBP parts on my '64 Valiant convertible and I can't imagine anyone wanting or needing a better setup on a driver. I was able to find almost all US made suspension and brake parts from Rock Auto and upgraded the torsion bars and steering box with Firm Feel parts. The only thing I have not yet done is add a anti-sway bar.

It's like driving a new car and I can buy replacement parts without having to go back to a manufacturer who might be out of business next month.
 
abuong1,

Show a photo of your rear brakes w/ drum off. The parts are all standard Bendix used on many cars. If the backing plate is still there, you should be able to get shoes, wheel cylinders, and a hardware kit for ~$40 for both sides. But, as mentioned, 10" drums are rare. Sounds like a shop is doing it. Why are they so confused?
 
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