65 Dart Horn Problems

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zephyr

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I replaced the old cracked horn switch with an original one in good shape. I installed a new horn relay and immediately the horn blasts continuously. Is there an adjustment on the switch or something I could have installed wrong?
 
Wires on relay on wrong terminals or faulty relay. do you have wiring diagram?
 
yup check the relay connections also, the steering wheel on the back side has a copper ring which has a rubber spacer the spacer is probably gone and make contact all the time.
 
I don't have a wiring diagram but probably wouldn't know how to read it if I did. Two of the wires terminate with a dual-wire connector. The other one is a single-wire connector. The connectors fit perfectly onto the relay so I don't know how I could have gotten that wrong, unless it's the wrong relay?
 
Missing a rubber spacer?! That sounds very possible since I just had the wheel off recently. I don't remember seeing a spacer but I guess I can make one out of something?
 
VanceC said:
Missing a rubber spacer?! That sounds very possible since I just had the wheel off recently. I don't remember seeing a spacer but I guess I can make one out of something?
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to make sure plug every thing in and move the steering wheel left to right and see if it stops honking
 
VanceC said:
I don't have a wiring diagram but probably wouldn't know how to read it if I did. Two of the wires terminate with a dual-wire connector. The other one is a single-wire connector. The connectors fit perfectly onto the relay so I don't know how I could have gotten that wrong, unless it's the wrong relay?
Click to expand...
I had this problem, it was the Copper Ring behind the wheel making contact with the screw in the blinker switch. You can see the copper on the screw in this photo (red arrow)

horn.jpg
 
So is there supposed to be a rubber gasket that covers that screw? I remember seeing a plastic gasket thingie. Maybe I put that UNDER the blinker switch.
 
Well the saga continues... I took the wheel off again and made a plastic gasket that insulates the blinker switch screw from the wheel. Put it back together and same thing. The horn blows constantly in any position of the wheel. I'm back to thinking there's a short in my steering column. Any ideas on where to look?
 
Don't overcomplicate it. The horn wire comes from the relay, through the column connector, up the column, and to the horn switch/ button section.

So first unconnect the column connector and satisfy yourself that it is not in the horn relay or wiring to that point. Now, with the column isolated, and the wheel off and the button components separated, you can put a meter/ test light on the horn switch wire to ground. Wiggle that wire and the top area where it interfaces with the horn switch. You can easily figure if that wire has an intermittent short

MOST horn problems of this nature are "right there" in the switch area---either the switch itself, or the interface between the column wire and the brush/ roller contact setup
 
I agree with slantsix64. Common for folks to change out the copper ring on the back side of the steering wheel. When you remove the retaining ring/canceller (round steel loop looking thing) normally the "rubber" as he called it (really more like a hard silicone that's gray in color) between the retaining ring and the copper horn ring it holds in place is lost. This allows the system to go to ground and honk continuously. The insulation? between the two can be thousands thick but it must be there. Since your steering wheel is off turn it over and check.

I don't see how the turn signal arm screw, which is recessed, can ever contact the copper horn ring. Look at the copper "wheel" that contacts the copper horn ring on the backside of the steering wheel, it's a good half inch above that screw head. Easy way to test theory, put a piece of tape over screw head and replace steering wheel. If horn stops you're right and I'm wrong.
 
valiantpatrol said:
I agree with slantsix64. Common for folks to change out the copper ring on the back side of the steering wheel. When you remove the retaining ring/canceller (round steel loop looking thing) normally the "rubber" as he called it (really more like a hard silicone that's gray in color) between the retaining ring and the copper horn ring it holds in place is lost. This allows the system to go to ground and honk continuously. The insulation? between the two can be thousands thick but it must be there. Since your steering wheel is off turn it over and check.

I don't see how the turn signal arm screw, which is recessed, can ever contact the copper horn ring. Look at the copper "wheel" that contacts the copper horn ring on the backside of the steering wheel, it's a good half inch above that screw head. Easy way to test theory, put a piece of tape over screw head and replace steering wheel. If horn stops you're right and I'm wrong.
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I don't know the how or why but this was my horn ring after the screw tore thru it...
My car had a button taped to the column for the horn when I bought it! Lol!
I put a dab of grease on the screw replaced the wheel and had the dab of grease on the copper ring. I don't know why it's so close.
I just thought the OP maybe had the same issue.

ring.jpg
 
@eekvonzipper - To me it appears you're copper ring was installed upside down. The raised area around the center (as pictured) should be against the backside of the steering wheel and not facing the turn signal switch mechanism. Easy to see why you had an interference/touching problem. After seeing yours, your right, he may have the same issue.
 
Another diagnostic idea for VanceC. Separate the steering column wiring connector where it plugs into the main harness. Insert a wire/spade? terminal into the space with the black wire on the harness connector. Touch the other end of inserted wire to ground to honk horn. This will tell you all wiring in main harness/horn relay is functioning properly since it eliminates everything in the column. This will also confirm the problem is in the column somewhere.
 
valiantpatrol said:
Another diagnostic idea for VanceC. Separate the steering column wiring connector where it plugs into the main harness. Insert a wire/spade? terminal into the space with the black wire on the harness connector. Touch the other end of inserted wire to ground to honk horn. This will tell you all wiring in main harness/horn relay is functioning properly since it eliminates everything in the column. This will also confirm the problem is in the column somewhere.
Click to expand...

I think I just said that LOL
 
valiantpatrol said:
@eekvonzipper - To me it appears you're copper ring was installed upside down. The raised area around the center (as pictured) should be against the backside of the steering wheel and not facing the turn signal switch mechanism. Easy to see why you had an interference/touching problem. After seeing yours, your right, he may have the same issue.
Click to expand...
There is no Raised Center. It's completely flat and only copper on one side, it's all phenolic on the other side.
 
Do you have the correct screw insulators for the horn switch installed? They go between the 3 screws and the horn ring.
 
cudamark said:
Do you have the correct screw insulators for the horn switch installed? They go between the 3 screws and the horn ring.
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No. (unaware) I would Love to know more about this as even my new ring has scars on it already.
I have a new replacement blinker switch from /6dan in there.
The only thing preventing a short is a piece of moleskin glued to top of the blinker screw...

scar.jpg
 
Yes, I'm using the original insulators.
As far as separating the steering column wiring goes, where is that?
 
"Somewhere" the wiring for the turn switch and horn comes out of the column, and right there somewhere is a connector mating all that to the under-dash harness. This is normally right near the dash panel just after where the column slants under the dash going downwards
 
Agree with 67Dart273. just follow the steering column from wheel end towards firewall and your bound to see the plug.
 
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