66 Cuda 360 questions

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chryslerfat

chryslerfat

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Ok I just won a 75 truck 360 motor and manual trans from ebay. From what I read it will make more power easier and cheaper than my 273. I have the clutch pedal assembly with rods through the firewall on the way. My car is a console auto now. What will I need to make this combo work. I know I need a shifter and shift rods also. Where can I get all the pieces needed and what is needed to convert from the 273-904 combo?
 
Is the trans an A833? What are the pedals out of? Bellhousing?
You will need the pedals, transmission, the bell housing, the clutch fork and boot, throwout bearing, bellcrank (Z-bar), ball stud for the bell side, ball stud for the frame side, rebuild kit for the bellcrank, clutch rod from pedal, clutch fork rod and hardware, floor hump for the floorpan, shifter and shift knob, shift rods and hardware, shifter bracket, crankshaft bushing, pressureplate, clutch disc, flywheel, shifter boot, trim ring, manual transmission carpet, and hopefully things like the switches are already mounted on the parts you are getting.
 
I will pick it up Saturday. In the pics it looks to be an 833 trans the motor and trans is complete including the fork and still assembled. The pedals are from a 65 Valiant and include the rod and boot through the firewall. So I will need the bellcrank for the car, Zbar and rod to the fork. I will also need the floor hump and shifter with rods. Are any of these parts still avialable? Another question is will my 273 mounts direct bolt to the 360 ears? The engine and trans are complete and only missing fan, carb, dist. cap and shifter with rods. The alt. and p/s pump are still on and pulleys with belts.
 
chryslerfat said:
I will pick it up Saturday. In the pics it looks to be an 833 trans the motor and trans is complete including the fork and still assembled. The pedals are from a 65 Valiant and include the rod and boot through the firewall. So I will need the bellcrank for the car, Zbar and rod to the fork. I will also need the floor hump and shifter with rods. Are any of these parts still avialable? Another question is will my 273 mounts direct bolt to the 360 ears? The engine and trans are complete and only missing fan, carb, dist. cap and shifter with rods. The alt. and p/s pump are still on and pulleys with belts.
Click to expand...
Post a pic of the trans if you can. Pedals are good to go. You will likely get most of the stuff you need from Brewers. Hump may be a problem, and you may have to hunt for one. The shifter is usually available on egag. Get a real '65 unit if you can because the throw on them is slightly different due to the hole configuration.
Do yourself a favor and buy new early A 360 mounts.
 
Here are some pics.
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I think the spacing on the block ears differs from the 273 to the 360. I am actually doing the opposite swap here in a couple of months. I need to freshen my 360 so I am dropping a 318 in my Dart for the summer. Your 273 exhaust manifolds will be needed.
 
That looks to be a 3 speed O/D. They are dimensionally the same as an A833. You will also need a passenger car 360 oil pan.
 
I assume that since you're bolting a 360 into this car that you have at least some interest in performance (acceleration, etc...)=P~

If that's true, do yourself a favor and find way to buy a set of headers for this car. The 360 manifolds work okay in their original application, but I am pretty sure they won't fit into the engine compartment (too wide) and even if they do, getting a "head pipe" onto the driver's side manifold might not be possible.

I "dropped" a 1971 340 into a '64 Valiant and left the manifolds on the engine. The manifolds hit the inner fender panels solidly on both sides when the engine was in place on the mounts. When I stubbornly refused to remove them and took it to a custom exhaust shop to have the head pipes made, the technician gave up after about half an hour, saying that there was no way... It was a 4-speed car, too.

You might consider that problem before you toss that 904.

TTI, Dougs and Spitfire are 3 companies that make under-the-car headers for early A-bodies with L-A/Magnum engines. Somebody probably makes fenderwell headers for these neat little cars (which is what I ended up with), which alleviates the clutch-linkage problem.... I don't know who might make them.

Good luck with this; when you stand on the "loud pedal" for the first time with that 360 in there, it will all have been worth it; been there...
done that!!! :cheers:
 
Yes you can use the 273 Motor mounts but they need to be modified to fit either 340 or 360 applications. They will require a triangular piece to be welded to one of the mounts but you can buy aftermarket motor mounts too.

Transmission crossover is the same for manual or automatic car but transmission mount is different. It’s also a good time to cut away material on the crossover to accommodate dual exhaust (helps to eliminate potential exhaust pipe rattling against crossover).

The Z-Bar will be a challenge, you will need to acquire the “body side” pivot bracket (hopefully your car is pre drilled for one), also you need a pivot bracket for the “motor side” (I made mine by modifying one from the junkyard but I have heard they can be purchased. I do not believe the 273 bellhousing pivot bracket will work because the 10.5 bellhousing is different from 273 (9.5 inch) bellhousing so buying one from eBay not useful. I also made my z-bar from a longer truck z-bar (like yours) by cutting away excess between the forks (in the center of the z-bar) to fit between the pivots and re-welding it together.

Shifter will require a hump be welded to the existing tunnel.

Bill’s right… Your going to love the ride
Good Luck
 
I think you may have a problem with the length of the trans. The a body trans is much shorter than a B, E, and probably Truck transmission. Before buying anything more - verify what you have - this will get very expensive if you choose to change the trans over to the shorter A body style. You will need a new or good used main shaft and a short tailshaft extension housing. You can not install a B, or E body trans in an A body they interfere with the torsion bar crossmember. I found this out the hard way 25 years ago.
 
THAT is why the pics come in so handy...that 4-speed ain't going to work without alot of messing around. It is an OD truck transmission, and the tailshaft is way too long. Notice the dual shifter bracket mounts. This is what I expected. To make that transmission fit...as mentioned before, you will need to swap the entire tailshaft housing, and mainshaft. You will also need an OD mainshaft as the OD gear is so much smaller, the mainshaft reflects that. Now you need to make a decision on that transmission. Other parts are connected to that decision. for example if you want a 4-speed, then the OD bellhousing will not work as the bearing retainer diameter is different.
THIS IS A GOOD START!
Just another quick point, those truck exhaust manifolds are not going to work...keep your 273 ones. They are a bolt on.
And do yourself a favor and just buy a pair of motormounts from Schumachers. The truck mounts will not position the motor correctly.
 
I've read where people have made an adapter for the truck transmission to mount the shifter in the proper spot for an A body. I think it was on SlantSix.org. Don't know if it'll work with an early A or not.

You might have to hunt a bit for the frame side Z bar bracket but I think one from any 63 to 66 (maybe earlier) A body with a manual trans will work.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. For now I plan on using my 273 manifolds as I just had new glasspack duals put on in October. Yes I am doing this swap to feel more in the seat and it is a car I will be driving to and from work in the summer. I will find out more on the trans. when I get it home tomorrow. You all have some very good points. If the trans. wont work out I may get a flexplate and keep the 904 for now as I collect 4 speed stuff that will work. Right now it is starting out as a cheap swap for more power. I paid 200 for the engine and trans. and have a 200 mile roundtrip to get it home.
 
chryslerfat said:
Thanks for the replies everyone. For now I plan on using my 273 manifolds as I just had new glasspack duals put on in October.
Click to expand...

I would advise you to check out very carefully, the way those 273 exhaust manifolds lie on the 360 exhaust flanges of those heads for this reason: The ports in those manifolds MAY (and I am not sure at all about this, but it's possible) not totally cover the exhaust ports in those heads. The 360 exhaust ports are much bigger than the 273 ports.

Maybe you need to get a 360 gasket and lay it on your 273 manifold and see how the port openings in the manifolds look as far as matching the gasket.


Also, and this is important, some smogger 360 heads have a hole drilled in the face of the exhaust flange below the bottom edge of the exhaust port, on the head. It's an air passage for the A.I.R. pump hardware and it's functional on every cylinder.

These will have to be plugged, but that's easy. Forget to do it (if your heads have them,) and you'll have 8 smallish exhaust leaks that won't make you too proud of your exhaust system. LOL!
 
The other point about later model heads is with the air injector ports comes an extra long tear drop shaped exhaust port boss. This boss comes down lower than the older heads and absolutely will not allow the drivers side 273 manifold to fit. I know from trying to use 273 manifolds on a set of the #302 head castings. the passenger side will work no problem, drivers side not. However, for a 75 you probably dont have those longer port bosses. Do yourself a favor though and check the fitment of your manifolds on your heads before doing any work.
 
Outsider said:
THAT is why the pics come in so handy...that 4-speed ain't going to work without alot of messing around. It is an OD truck transmission, and the tailshaft is way too long. Notice the dual shifter bracket mounts. This is what I expected. To make that transmission fit...as mentioned before, you will need to swap the entire tailshaft housing, and mainshaft. You will also need an OD mainshaft as the OD gear is so much smaller, the mainshaft reflects that. Now you need to make a decision on that transmission. Other parts are connected to that decision. for example if you want a 4-speed, then the OD bellhousing will not work as the bearing retainer diameter is different.
THIS IS A GOOD START!
Just another quick point, those truck exhaust manifolds are not going to work...keep your 273 ones. They are a bolt on.
And do yourself a favor and just buy a pair of motormounts from Schumachers. The truck mounts will not position the motor correctly.
Click to expand...


Ok so if I got a bellhousing for the 10.5 clutch with a 4.35 hole then I could find the correct trans for the 66. Am I correct in thinking this or will it interfere with the tunnel.
 
There's a good article about this in the latest Mopar Muscle magazine......:read2:
Tom.
 
Thirty-seven years ago, I swapped a '71 340/4-speed engine, transmission, driveshaft and 8.75" rear-end into my '64 Valiant (original 273, 3-speed "stick" car.)

I did all the work myself. It was a piece of cake!!!! Except for the exhaust manifolds (a story in itself), the only things I had to change were the driver's side motor mount, the sending unit on the oil pressure gauge, and the speedometer cable! That was IT; even the driveshaft worked, which was a mystery to me because the wheelbase is 2" longer on the car that engine came out of (a '71 Demon.)

Oh yeah... I DID have to cut a hole in the floor for the shifter.... Oh well.

Here's the thing that puzzles me: I don't know how I got the clutch actuator "Z-BAR" to fit without changing anything.

Maybe I did change SOMETHING, but I have NO MEMORY of doing anything different at all to make that work.

Is the is the way Alzheimer's comes on??? I realLy can't imagine having done much alteration of that piece and not remembering it at all.

I did add a longitudinal brace to the firewall because, after I installed a 3,000-pound Hayes pressure plate, the firewall would suck BACK about an inch when I applied enough foot pressure to the clutch pedal to disengage that mongo pressure plate. I just took some 1" tubing and flattened the ends in a vice, then bent one end 90-degrees about 3" from the end, and drilled a couple of holes in it, bolted it to the firewall beside the master cylinder, and bolted the other end (that had not been bent) to the top side of the flat (horizontal) portion of the inner fender panel. Worked great!

But, so did the clutch linkage, which I can't remember altering AT ALL.

What's wrong with me??????:angry7:


Bill, in Conway, Arkansas

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Ok would an F-body trans work in my situation and put the shifter in the right spot? It looks as if its a short shaft and has the shifter mount in the correct spot.
 
$200.00 is a good deal. Good luck on the swap. I've done it in a ' 65 barracuda before and it looks like your getting some good detailed info up there.
 
Yes I believe the F body trans would work. Just compare the lengths of the truck tranny and the F body, if its shorter, then it will work. The only thing you need to be aware of - is that there were a number of different sized pinion bearing retainers used during the production runs of the 833 trans, you may have to get a different sized one to fit your bell housing. The pinion bearing retainer bolts on to the front of the trans and acts as the pilot for the tranny mounting to the bell housing.
 
It's been awhile, but I believe the F-body will not only work fine, but it will bolt right up to your truck bellhousing. I believe that all the f-body 4-speeds were OD, and that is what your bell housing requires.
The bearing retainer should be the same.
 
Thanks for all the good replies. Outsider you have been a great help. I did find all of the z-bar parts I will need at brewers. I also bought a different bellhousing with the small input retainer hole so I have either to use depending on what trans I get. I will keep everyone updated as things go along.
 
Somebody at Brewer's told me that the only way to make the OD trans fit in an early A was to use a 4.8" diameter input bearing retainer (it has to be the one made to fit with the larger #308 bearing used on the OD trans) on the front of the trans. Then take a bellhousing with a 4.309" hole & have it machined to fit the 4.8" bearing retainer. They said it had to do with getting the clutch fork pivot mounted in the right place to make all of the linkage fit & work correctly. If you use an OD bellhousing (the one with the 5.125" hole) the pivot mounts too far out. I think this then requires you to use the longer clutch fork & then you start to run into clearance problems with all of the other crap (like exhaust) that's fighting for the same space.

I can say that if you use fenderwell headers you eliminate a lot of those pesky problems.
 
Well parts are on the way. I still need to buy a 360 car oil pan. As far as running the 273 manifolds I pulled the passenger manifold off the 360 today and found that the head is cast for the emissions port below the exhaust port but not drilled. So as luck has it my 273 manifolds should work. I will probably start the swap Memorial weekend as long as all parts get here before then.
 
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