67 Dart 270...Project Old School

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Hello all,

I recieved my new radiator and I swapped it in place of the old radiator.
radcompare.jpg


I mounted my electric fan and heavy duty water pump. I gutted my old 180 thermostat to side step any thermostat not opening issues.

radinstalled.jpg


The fan flows 2400 CFM. It was the highest flowing fan I could find that would fit in the tight confines between the radiator and the water pump.

I used 2 bottles of Water Wetter and 3/4 of coolant with the rest being water. When I fired the car up and let it run for a few minutes the temperature settled at 140 degrees. A test drive on city streets resulted in a 185 degree reading back at the garage. A test drive on the highway at 3000 - 3200 RPM (55-60 MPH with 3.91s) resulted in 210 temps within 2 miles. It is getting hotter faster now when it is 85 degrees out then it did with the old radiator in 100 degree temps. I am pretty frustrated and stumped at this point. I guess I can try swapping back to the stock fan, but I don't have a shroud.
 
Put a thermostat back in it and try the stock fan. Sounds like at highway speeds you are circulating the water too fast and not giving the radiator time to cool it. Old 351 Ford Clevelands came with a water flow restrictor that if you left out would cause them to over heat.
 
Capt. Zorro said:
Put a thermostat back in it and try the stock fan. Sounds like at highway speeds you are circulating the water too fast and not giving the radiator time to cool it. Old 351 Ford Clevelands came with a water flow restrictor that if you left out would cause them to over heat.
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X2 The water doesn't have enought time to absorb & disipate the heat correctly.
Antoher note: You need to add a PCV valve & a breather cap to those valve covers otherwise the seals & gaskets are going to leak oil. Crankcase pressure will build up & blow them out.

Cool project. I love my '67 & like to see other people's too. Keep posting your progress!
 
My plan was to pull my 360 motor over the winter and freshen it up. I was also looking at adding a new cam, lifters, timing chain, bearings, rings, gaskets, and top it off with some home ported "J" heads which already have been upgraded to 2.02" intake valves. I was also toying with the idea of boring the block for some KB107s to increase the compression.

When I looked at my estimated cost to complete all this work, I took a quick look around to see if there any options available via Craig's List. To my surprise I found an ad for a 320HP, 360 Magnum crate engine. The engine was listed as only having 20K miles on it. Now I am contemplating a Magnum transplant in the 67 Dart. I have to see if the motor checks out as advertised.
 
I would put a 160* thermostat in it and maybe think about a Smaller Upper radiator hose like 1.5" or so. That will slow down the water and allow the radiator to do its job.
 
320HP - 360 Magnum crate engine with 20,000 miles on it. I picked up an M1 dual plane intake as well. Total cost so far on this engine:

Engine $400
M1 Intake $100

Total $500


360%2520mag%2520arrives%2520home.jpg
 
I have been trying to find a camshaft for the Magnum engine. I contacted Comp for a cam recommendation and they recommended a custom cam with 230/236 .050, 110 LCA, and .577" lift. Based on the flow charts I found on Shady Dell for stock Magnum heads, they pretty much max out at .550" lift.

I have looked at regrinds but the LCA is always 112 - 114 which seems wide for a street/sometimes strip application. The lifts tend to be lower and would most likely work with the srings currently on the heads.

The only off the shelf cam I have found that seems like it might fit and work with a spring upgrade is the smallest Comp Thumper roller cam. 227/241 .050, 107 LCA .545" lift with 1.6 rockers. I am not wild about the excessive exhaust duration.

How much lift do you lose at the valve due to the pushrod geometry? I was thinking .020", but I think it is worse with 1.6 rockers and the much higher lifts.
 
I ordered a few parts today and also communicated with Comp Cams about the final specs for the camshaft Looks like I will be settling on the roller cam with 224/230 @.050" (I/E) with .513" lift and 108 LCA. Hope to finalize that purchase tomorrow.

Engine $400
M1 Intake $100
360 mid sump oil pan and pickup $81.85
Used flex plate $35.75
Engine stainless bolt kit $61.30

Total $678.90
 
nice project! :)
about the heat issue... did mopar deliver different sizes on the water pump pulley? if the water pumpe spins too slow, it will also cause overheat problems? but then the problem will be only idle and cruise,and not on the highway I think...

I dont remember vlearly, but think I read somewhere the stock 5blade viscous fan pulls about 3000cfm at idle fully engaged? anyone?
 
I resolved the over heating issue with a 170 degree thermostat, FlowKooler water pump, and re-installing the stock fix blade fan. I plan to move all three of those things over to the Mangum engine I recently got.


Norway-dart said:
nice project! :)
about the heat issue... did mopar deliver different sizes on the water pump pulley? if the water pumpe spins too slow, it will also cause overheat problems? but then the problem will be only idle and cruise,and not on the highway I think...

I dont remember vlearly, but think I read somewhere the stock 5blade viscous fan pulls about 3000cfm at idle fully engaged? anyone?
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As it turns out the 320HP crate 360 Magnum was a bust. My cheap long block idea turned into a future rebuilder project. So, what's next? Throw in the towel? Take up gardening? Naw...I have decided to build a hybrid.

Ok, not that kind of hybrid. I am going to build a Magnum/LA hybrid. The LA 360 that is in the car now runs and based on the whopping 86 MPH trap speed in a 3300 lbs car it churns out a staggering 142 HP at the rear wheels. (Barf)

Let's review what we are starting with. We have a late 70s 360 with a stock cam, M1 dual plane intake, Holley 3310 750 Vac sec, Summit Racing 1 5/8" long tube headers, B&M SFI spec 360 balanced flex plate, Edge Racing 9.5" 3200 stall converter, 3.91 geared 742 case, and a 904 with the DIY shift kit in it.

I have a roller cam ground on an LA blank with 224/230 .050" and .513 lift I/E on 110 LSA from the now defunct Magnum Adventure. This cam is ground for 1.6 rockers. With 1.5 rockers it would yield .480" lift.

I also have a set of "J" heads that were built by Areohead and have 2.02" intakes installed and .500" lift springs. One option would be to use the roller cam with the "J" heads. The cam is not huge by any means, but with the low compression it would most likely be a turd. The 1.5 rocker ratio would make the cam appear slightly smaller and the ramps that much slower.

Another option would be to shelve the roller cam and get a small flat tappet hydrualic cam to go with the "J" heads. The valve events would be better since the cam would be designed for the 1.5 rocker ratio.

The option I have settled on is to build the hybrid. I will acquire some EQ heads and reuse the rocker gear from the defunct Magnum heads. I will get the EQ heads with the LA bolt pattern and maybe some day I will upgrade to the holy grail...the LA version RPM Air Gap!!! I will have to spring for the hydraulic roller lifters from Hughes. They are not cheap, but I won't have to worry about wiping out a flat tappet cam during break in.

Update: Heads and roller lifters are here!
EQhead01.jpg


rollerlifter01.jpg


I am in the process of tearing the old heads off and clearing stuff out of the way to get the old cam out.
 
Just a thought...

I had issues with my dart at the track doing the same thing you described with yours (falling off at 4500-5000), it ended up being the mopar ign box was bad, and wasnt producing enough spark at the top end. I upgraded to a nicer mopar box and problem solved. I know that is the least of your concerns now... Keep up the good work on that motor...

JOE
 
Funny you should mention this. I was running the Summit Racing electronic conversion kit and it was doing all sorts of intresting things. One of the things the box was doing was retarding the timing roughly 10 degrees as the motor rev'ed up. I found all this out when I was trying to recurve the distributor. I would see the distributor give me advance and then the box retard it. I bought an Autozone replacement box and automagically the timing retard on the top end disappeared. The car would rev clean to 5000+ rpm. Granted, it still doesn't make any real power past 4000-4500, but it will rev to 5000+ now.

joeboy said:
Just a thought...

I had issues with my dart at the track doing the same thing you described with yours (falling off at 4500-5000), it ended up being the mopar ign box was bad, and wasnt producing enough spark at the top end. I upgraded to a nicer mopar box and problem solved. I know that is the least of your concerns now... Keep up the good work on that motor...

JOE
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Progress has been slow because my back has been bothering me. Hanging over a fender pulling wrenches seems to only make my back feel worse. I have been able to get some stuff done in small doses.

First off let me introduce the Sludge Beast:
teardown01.jpg


I was sort of surprised to see a timing chain with real metal gears as opposed to the nylon teeth. The chain has the usual slop, but not too bad. I am guessing it is a replacement. It doesn't matter as it will be replaced by a Coyes multi index timing chain set.

I managed to get the grill out of the way. All that is left is my B&M stacked plate transmission cooler to slide out of the way of the cam.
grilldelete.jpg


Here are a couple of photos I promised a long time ago. It is always cool when you find things like this on these older cars. This was hiding behind the battery:
certicard02.jpg


certicard01.jpg


Looks like the car was sold 9/8/67. Ok, back to work. I did manage to get the passenger side head off.

headoff02.jpg


Looks pretty typical. Next I need to get the driver's side head off. I will then dig out my cam degree kit and mount my piston stop.
 
Pretty cool car-and I believe I detected a Fox body in the background of your garage :)

In regard to the ignition issues, if you continue to have issues, you could convert to HEI...TrailBeast sells a kit to FABO members for $100 shipped...includes an 8 pin HEI module, E core coil and required wiring. Or you could do it the cheap way and go with a basic 4 pin HEI module, and replacement coil...probably about $60 for new parts sourced at a local parts house, and maybe $10 worth of wiring pigtails from a local salvage yard. After doing the swap, mine starts easier and idles cleaner. Pretty straightforward swap...
 
txstang84 said:
Pretty cool car-and I believe I detected a Fox body in the background of your garage :)
Click to expand...

I believe your detector is working properly. This is what it looks like out of the garage.
BKD10-10-30_325A.jpg


I really wish the all in one HEI would fit on the 360 with the Dart firewall as it would really help to clean up the wiring.
 
Sweet! Looks like it launches pretty well! I have that same hood on my '84...
 
I am going to have to unbolt the engine from the motor mounts and hoist it up to get access to the last two head bolts on the drivers side. There is just not enough room to get to the lower head bolts with the headers in the way.
driverside01.jpg


It is just too tight with the steering box. There just isn't enough room to slide the header out of the way.

driverside02.jpg


It would be sweet if someone made 1 3/4" shorty header with the proper Magnum exhaust flange.
 
I got the driver side head off and installed the cam. I was amazed to find the cam was dead on installed straight up (dot to dot). Now for some bad news or maybe I should have expected it. I measured the pistons to find out they are .088" in the hole at TDC. Using an online compression calculator and using .039" for the stock gasket and 74cc for the stock heads ( the valves in the stock heads have a dish on the bottom making the chamber just that much bigger) I get 7.7:1 compression.

When I run the numbers using 62cc for the EQ heads and .028 for the thinner head gaskets I will run, I get 8.7:1 compression. I was hoping for closer to 9.5 compression. I am now wondering if a 224/230 .050" cam will be too big and turn this thing into a turd.
 
I got the roller cam installed and degreed. I was amazed at how accurate the Coyes timing chain is.
degreecam01.jpg


Here is the piston at TDC and you can see piston is a mile below the deck...well .088" at least.
TDCpiston01.jpg


When I calculated the compression for the stock setup I came up with 7.7:1 compression. Sad.... Oh well, here I am prepping to paint the EQ heads.
headpaint01.jpg


Here is what they look like after they are painted red. I tried to match to factory red for a 273.
headpaint02.jpg


The color matches the air cleaner sticker for a 273 Commando engine. It should like like this when I am done.
DSC05727.JPG


Back to scraping 30 year old head gasket residue off the decks....
 
If I were you since you are so deep into it. I would pull the engine and replace the pistons with some KB 107's to up your compression to 10:1 or so and do a backyard shade tree rebuild. New bearings, hone it etc. Face it the engine is old and your gunna be pulling it in the next few months anyway so may as well do it now is my thought.... I did what you are doing on another engine I had in my swinger and my bottom end took a **** on me in the first 2 weeks..... out came the engine.
 
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