68 dart GTS 18 rims question

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downundertdart

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hi all, luke here Australia/oz, I have a 68 dart gts(standard 8 3/4 diff with pirate jack front and rear disc brake conversion) and stock leafs and tubs etc... after what 18” rims I can get with size and back spacing and Tyre size as well...just to help with ordering /looking on summit racing ...we are heading to Hawaii in September and can get parts sent there (and bring back on a cruise home) ....

Thanks for the help...
Luke
 
So what did your brake conversion consist of? if its 73'-up front brakes and large bolt pattern rear axles and drums then the track of your car has widened over the stock 5x4 brakes, meaning you will need more positive offset. Your best bet is to measure your car or buy a Percy's Wheelrite. 18" will fit with the right tire and offset. I run a 17x7 with a 215/45/17 tire on the front and a 17x8 with a 245/45/17 rear. I don't recall my back spacing on the wheels but I did custom order them as I could not find any off the shelf rim to fit my car, which at the time was 73-up BBP converted and now has a Dr. Diff 13" front brake conversion.
 
... I believe it is, haven’t installed it yet tho.. but they’re kit uses the smaller upper ball joint and has a sleeve/adapter to make it the bigger disc big bolt pattern and rear is upgraded to bbp as well, and whatever size disc not they run with not the 13” of dr diff...
 
In the front the Pirate Jack kit is the same as a 73+ disk set up. If you're using the 5x4.5" kit it's identical to stock, the adaptors let you use the 73+ spindles which is what is in that kit.

In the back the rear disks add the thickness of the rotor. It usually works out to be about 3/16" per side compared to drums. Are you using BBP axles, or did you re-drill the small bolt pattern axles?

The limiting factor for width is going to be the in the back with the stock spring locations and wheel tubs. For a '69 the widest you'll probably manage without cutting or rolling the quarter lips is a 245. You can easily fit a 245 up front, in fact with a 18" rim you can fit a 275 up front. But since you probably don't want to run larger tires up front than out back you can run 245's if you want.

In the front with an 18x8 you could run 5.25" up to about 6" of backspace and have it work with a 245/40/18. Now, that's +20 to +35 of offset, so if you want to run a narrower tire just run whatever rim you width you need with and keep the offset between +20 to +35, it'll fit. Same goes for a 18x8.5.

In the back, assuming you have BBP axles (not redrilled SBP), you'd be looking for an 18x8 with about 5.25" to 5.5" of backspace to run a 245. The 67-69 cars tend to be tighter to the quarters, so I'd be looking for closer to 5.5" and being able to run a small spacer if need be (vs being too close to the quarters). If you go more than 5.5" you'll need a spacer to get you back to at least 5.5". For example, if you found an 18x8 with 5.7" of backspace, you'd likely need a 1/4" spacer to pull that off. Same goes for the 18x8.5's, they'd work if you keep the offset around +20 to +25-ish.

You can see the overlap, if you wanted to run 245's on 18x8's and be able to rotate you'd want 5.25" to 5.5" of backspace. Now, that's an estimate, you should still measure your car, especially in the back. The front will work fine either way, but on a 67-69 cars there isn't always a lot of room.

Also, the same works for a 17x8 with a 245/45/17, 5.25" to 5.5" backspace. In the front you'd be a little more limited, because the outer tie rod end usually starts to interfere with most 17" rims around the 5.6" backspace mark. But to run square on a Dart with the stock spring locations it's basically is the same for 17's or 18's. There's the 17x8" replica Bullit wheels for mustangs that are usually pretty affordable, they have a 5.680" backspace which would probably take a 1/8" spacer front and rear. And in the front those usually require a little hub bore modification to clear the hub snout on the Mopar 73+ rotors.

Some options...Wheels - 5 x 4 1/2 in. Wheel Bolt Pattern (app)
 
..the pirate jack rear kit I’m assuming has an adaptor flange or redrilling... haven’t installed it yet...
as far as a spacer for the back spacing, I don’t think we can run spacers over here, I think they’re illegal to run..so if I got 18 x 8 with 5.25 back space(I do see a lot of posts about 4.5 backspacing? ) and run the 245 40 18 I should be right ?

2EDC0637-86B0-400F-9C7C-5E3F507E0BC6.png


65D34D24-5210-4BA2-B8E7-6547A1DD1E31.png
 
..the pirate jack rear kit I’m assuming has an adaptor flange or redrilling... haven’t installed it yet...
as far as a spacer for the back spacing, I don’t think we can run spacers over here, I think they’re illegal to run..so if I got 18 x 8 with 5.25 back space(I do see a lot of posts about 4.5 backspacing? ) and run the 245 40 18 I should be right ?

View attachment 1715372397

View attachment 1715372398

I'm not familiar with the Pirate Jack rear disk kit beyond what's shown in the pictures. The axle difference is important, BBP axles have a different flange offset than SBP axles. That changes the track width, which will change your backspacing requirements.

bbp-axle-shafts-copy-jpg.jpg


With BBP axles the ideal backspace for maxing out your tire width in the back isn't 4.5" on a Dart, especially with 18's because there's less tire overhanging the rim. But, before you buy anything my suggestion would be to measure your own car. You don't need to spend money on a Percy Wheelright, all you need is a tape measure and a carpenter square. Or even just a straight edge and a tape measure if you measure carefully.

Use the straight edge across the wheel mounting surface on the axle, like the straight edge is the rim (ie, don't lay it across the hub, lay it across the flat where the rim mounts). Then measure back to the springs, making sure you keep the tape perpendicular to the straight edge and the spring. That's your wheel mounting surface (wms) to spring measurement. Do the same for the wms to quarter flange. Your straight edge has to be long enough that when you make the straight edge vertical you can keep the tape perpendicular to the straight edge and the quarter lip. That's your wms to quarter. Measure BOTH sides. With the way the body tolerances on these cars work, they probably won't be identical, so you will likely have one side that's a little tighter for clearance than the other.

Then it's just math. On my '71 Dart with an A-body 8 3/4 and BBP axles I have a WMS to spring of 6", and a WMS to quarter of 5". So for example lets say I used an 18x8 with a 245/40/18. An 18x8" is actually 9" wide outside lip to outside lip, most 245/40/18's have a section width of 9.8", let's call it 10" to be safe. So a 1/2" of tire overhang on each side. So 10" of tire at the section width (widest part), 11" of space from the spring to the quarter. I usually start from the spring, so we want a 1/2" of clearance to the spring. So 6" - .5" is 5.5". Next we have a 1/2" of tire overhang. So now we've got 5", which is the backspace we need. Then I check the other side. If the backspace it 5", then the front space is 4". 4" + 1/2" tire +1/2" clearance is 5". Perfect, centered. 18x8 with 5".

But, that assumes a full 1/2" of overhang, which there won't be with an 245/40/18 on an 18x8", the measuring rim is an 8.5 so there will be a little squeeze, and the tire was 9.8" to begin with. It also assumed a full 1/2" of clearance to the spring, which you don't need with an 245/40/18. Personally I'd rather set the clearance tight to the spring and have the extra to the quarter, because that's where it's more likely to rub . So on my car I'd say the ideal is more like 5.25". That'll put me around 3/8" clearance after the tire overhang correction. But that's for drums, so, if I wanted to add disks I'd add another 3/16" or so. Which is 5-7/16", which I'd call 5.5" and run a small spacer if I needed to, because I know that's actually the tight side of my car and the other side actually has 6 1/8" to the spring so it has more room to begin with.

But that's my car. The '67-'69 cars are, in general at least, usually a little tighter to the quarters than the '70+ cars. I don't know what the deal is with spacers over there, but I wouldn't be surprised as the laws for classics are pretty ridiculous in Australia. That makes your measurements more important, I usually just fudge to the side of a little more backspace because a 1/8" to 3/16" spacer is no big deal and I run longer than stock wheel studs anyway. And it's easier to run a small spacer than re-work the quarter lip if I'm a little off.
 
Thanks for the help...I’ll measure that tomorrow ...but yeah haven’t done the brake install yet so might have to just wait till I done that ...I’ll glance through the rear instructions to see how they go about the axel setup...
 
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