A833 4 Speed Problems.

-

LovetheA's

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
827
Reaction score
117
Location
Fairfield, CT
I thought that this would be the best place to get some expert advice. There are a lot of people that know 4 Speed trannys inside and out and I'm not one of them.
My car has been getting more and more difficut to shift into gear. It becomes even more difficult when the car warms up. That seems unusual to me because most things mechanical move/shift easier when warm. I thought it might be a clutch problem.
I removed the inspection cover under the bell housing and had someone depress the clutch and could see the clutch move away from the flywheel. So I assume that the clutch works fine. I recently had the tranny totally rebuilt and 4 brass synchros put it and within 2000 miles it started acting up getting worse as time went on. I don't dump the clutch or beat on it so there is no reason for it to be crapping out.
Now it is so bad that it is very difficult to get into first or even down shift into first when decelerating. The guy that rebuilt the tranny looked at it but said he thinks everything is fine but I don't agree.
He also said that I should be using auto trans fluid in it instead of gear oil. I've never heard of this?
Is it possible that the tolerances are too tight in the tranny so when everything warms up it tightens?
What could be wrong.
Also when I used to try to shift the car into reverse it has the inland shifter with reverse lock out I would have to turn the car off to get it into reverse than turn the car back on and back up. If I tried to put it into reverse it would grind. Could this be because the idle is set a little high about 1000rpm and there is centripital force moving the tranny even with the clutch depressed so it doesn't stop spinning and that is why it is grinding? Would lowering the idle to 700 make a difference or is there something wrong?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks everyone.

Carl
 
The key words are "grind into reverse" Either you have a pilot bushing that's too tight on the input shaft and trying to drive it, or a serious misalignment problem, or you have a clutch problem.

With the clutch pedel depressed, how much feeler can you get between the disk and pressure plate?

I once had a clutch that would not realease clean for speed shifting. In fact, I could shift the car just as fast WITHOUT using the clutch. I fought that for weeks (scattershield, no bottom pan) finally tore it out and there was debri that had worked it's way in the outer area between the rear of the pp and the cover. It prevented the pp from coming back and releasing clean
 
I'm by no means and expert but I agree with 67Dart273 that something is too tight, and yes, could be misalignment, pilot bearing, clutch clearance, or the "gear oil" causing too much friction ( too thick ) or not enough ( too slippery ) ( funny thing, gear oil ) .
Stock OD's came with ATF from the factory. After my rebuild I used gear oil, and I might as well have taken the syncros out :lol: . After switching to syncromesh, it's night and day different, just wish I could get the thing to stop leaking from the new seals :angry4:
 
I'm by no means and expert but I agree with 67Dart273 that something is too tight, and yes, could be misalignment, pilot bearing, clutch clearance, or the "gear oil" causing too much friction ( too thick ) or not enough ( too slippery ) ( funny thing, gear oil ) .
Stock OD's came with ATF from the factory. After my rebuild I used gear oil, and I might as well have taken the syncros out :lol: . After switching to syncromesh, it's night and day different, just wish I could get the thing to stop leaking from the new seals :angry4:

I run 90 wt gear oil in all my 4 speeds. OD and standard. No problems, ever. I would have to agree with 67Dart273.
 
Sure sounds like something is dragging. Have some one depress the clutch and see if you can spin the disk (car in neutral of course). It should move relatively easily. I believe the spec is there should be 0.050" of clearance when the clutch is depressed.

Depending on year and application the factory fill on the A833 was ATF. ATF will shift much better than gear oil especially in cooler climates. But even better than ATF is a manual tranmission fluid like Penzoil Syncromesh Fluid, Royal Purple Manual Transmission Fluid, the equivalent from Redline or the stuff from Passion Perfromance.
 
Thank you everyone for all the great info. You can't beat the knowledge on this website. I'll let you all know what the problems was.

Carl
 
What car do you have this in?

Are you using the correct bellhousing, clutch fork, linkage rods, adjuster rod, bellcrank (Z-bar) etc?

Get the number off of your bellhousing and call brewers performance with your issues, they will help you out.

There is a mod for the clutch pedal linkage in Mopar muscle that ads 1" of clutch pedal throw to properly release the throwout bearing for smoother shifting.Link:
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...eed_a_body_clutch_pedal_adjustment/index.html
One of the most common complaints is not being able to get out of first gear into second while hammering the gas pedal.

I would make sure you have all the right parts and if so, make sure your threaded adjustment rod is not too sloppy nor too tight.
 
hopefully your problem is nothing too serious

I know some manual transmission folks here like to use this

moly_lube.gif
 
clutch fork, linkage rods, adjuster rod, bellcrank (Z-bar)


Something I completely forgot to mention IS the clutch linkage itself, from top to bottom. Examine each section carefully, you'll need a second pair of eyes. While slowly working the pedal up and down, look for bending or movement on the various links.

The frame mount could be loose/ rusted/ bent, the z bar setup could be cracked and moving under load. On some designs the fork itself can be cracked, say, on "one side" of the stamping and bend just a little under load
 
hopefully your problem is nothing too serious

I know some manual transmission folks here like to use this

moly_lube.gif

I would think that stuff would be a sure fire way of generating lots of gear grinding during shifts. You need to have the correct friction coeficient or the syncros don't work.

I tried Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube once, I went around the block and pulled right back into the garage and drained it. The gears would grind on every up or down shift, put ATF back in an all was fine. I now run a specific manual transmission fluid (Penzoil Syncromesh).
 
check the clearance on your thrust bearing.
Make sure you are not on the ragged edge as far as clearance between the drive pinion and the back of the crank.
As temps go up , linear expansion may cause the clearance to be reduced and tighten up trans.
also fry thrust bearing.
been there done that.
Just a guess.
 
had the same problem
what make of clutch do you have?
do you have a diaphram type or borg and beck?
mike
 
If you would take what the trany guy said about the uses of auto trans fluid your problem will go away mopar put out a fix for this problem back in the 70'd replace the 90 weight with auto trans fluid it will take care of the problem this was a problem when my demon was new it did work it will get to be more of a problem as it get colder this winter
 
If you would take what the trany guy said about the uses of auto trans fluid your problem will go away mopar put out a fix for this problem back in the 70'd replace the 90 weight with auto trans fluid it will take care of the problem this was a problem when my demon was new it did work it will get to be more of a problem as it get colder this winter

Sorry I don't agree. He said it "grinds into reverse." That means that the clutch is not releasing and the input shaft is still turning.

Typically heavy (90wt) just causes (some) difficulty getting into gear but NOT grinding in reverse, and may cause "stiff" shifting until warmed up, in cold wx.
 
i had a similar issue with a 4spd. and it turned out to be a bad clutch fork where it held the throwout bearing (some how 1 end of the clip 0n the fork broke), causing it to not release the clutch fully. i could drive and change gears sometimes reverse would grind but clutch just didnt feel right.
 
Thanks again for all the continual info. I'll try to give you all more specifics on what I'm dealing with. The car is a 1967 4 speed barracuda. It is set up stock with factory exhaust manifolds factory stock clutch linkage and z bar with a diaphragm type clutch. From what everyone is saying the problem may be in the clutch fork or the tranny is rebuilt out of alignment or too tight. Could someone be more specific about what this means. Another interesting point was that when I had to adjust the clutch travel in the car I had to weld an extension onto the clutch adjustment rod to get the setting of the clutch correct even though everything was assembled as per factory. Also this may be due to the break in of the clutch but after about 1000-1500 miles I had to readjust the clutch rod because the clutch travel moved down towards the floor. What steps should I take to diagnose the problem. I took off the inspection cover under the bell housing had someone depress the clutch and clearly saw the Pressure plate move away from the flywheel. So I think the clutch works fine.

Carl
 
Another interesting point was that when I had to adjust the clutch travel in the car I had to weld an extension onto the clutch adjustment rod to get the setting of the clutch correct even though everything was assembled as per factory. Also this may be due to the break in of the clutch but after about 1000-1500 miles I had to readjust the clutch rod because the clutch travel moved down towards the floor.

I agree with Cudaspaz, call Brewers, you've got the wrong combination of parts. You should not need to weld an extra length into the adjustment rod. This tells me the geometery between the z-bar and business end of the clutch fork (throw out bearing) is wrong. Good news, it should be easy to correct with new parts from Brewers. Have your bell housing part number ready when you call them.

Here's a link to their web site: http://www.brewersperformance.com/default.htm
 
I agree with Cudaspaz, call Brewers, you've got the wrong combination of parts. You should not need to weld an extra length into the adjustment rod. This tells me the geometery between the z-bar and business end of the clutch fork (throw out bearing) is wrong. Good news, it should be easy to correct with new parts from Brewers. Have your bell housing part number ready when you call them.

Here's a link to their web site: http://www.brewersperformance.com/default.htm

I have been having the same type of problem with my 66 Dart. The only thing I changed is the clutch assembly and I can't get it adjusted properly. I went from a factory 9 1/2" to a 10". With it adjusted so the throw-out barely touches the pressure plate fingers it releases within a inch of the floor and it's nearly impossible to shift into reverse. I contacted Brewers and they have been very helpfull. I ordered their clutch kit, fork, and pivot. I have also rebuilt the z bar and replaced the pedal and adjusting shafts.
 
i had a similar issue with a 4spd. and it turned out to be a bad clutch fork where it held the throwout bearing (some how 1 end of the clip 0n the fork broke), causing it to not release the clutch fully. i could drive and change gears sometimes reverse would grind but clutch just didnt feel right.

I was using a 10.95 440 pressure plate and clutch to hold a 273 in a 64 Barracuda. All kinds flexing going on!! Broke a Z bar at the tube and adjusting rods every once in a while. Sounds like something is flexing or out of spec. Just because the clutch is new, does not mean it is good. I'd take the whole car back to the guy who did the tranny and get his opinion.
 
Put the car up on jackstands (rear wheels in the air). Put the trans in any gear. Have someone push in the clutch. From underneath see if you can spin the driveshaft (Which will turn the trans and clutch disc) by hand. If it can be turned your clutch is releasing, if it can't be turned by hand, you have a problem. I would start by pulling the clutch apart and inspecting the disc and clutch fingers (do this before you start modifying linkage). Could be a b-body fork (too short), faulty clutch (worn, broken finger pivot, etc.

You can change oil all you want, but it won't fix your problem. All the symptons point to inadequate clutch release.

Also there is a wave spring in between the friction pads on the disc. The clutch pressure plate has to move enough to release the wave spring too.

Someone also mentioned pilot bushing too tight, this is a possibility, but I have never seen one fail like that.
 
Put the car up on jackstands (rear wheels in the air). Put the trans in any gear. Have someone push in the clutch. From underneath see if you can spin the driveshaft (Which will turn the trans and clutch disc) by hand. If it can be turned your clutch is releasing, if it can't be turned by hand, you have a problem. I would start by pulling the clutch apart and inspecting the disc and clutch fingers (do this before you start modifying linkage). Could be a b-body fork (too short), faulty clutch (worn, broken finger pivot, etc.

You can change oil all you want, but it won't fix your problem. All the symptons point to inadequate clutch release.

Also there is a wave spring in between the friction pads on the disc. The clutch pressure plate has to move enough to release the wave spring too.

Someone also mentioned pilot bushing too tight, this is a possibility, but I have never seen one fail like that.

This sounds like a fair idea with one change. Put the trans into 4th gear. Any other gear, you are trying to turn the driveshaft against "higher gearing."

Whatever the answer is, I believe it is AHEAD of the transmission, not in it.
 
What was the issue with your 67 Cuda when you had the issue with the manual trans / clutch when it would grind in reverse etc. I’m having the EXACT issues and would love to hear how you resolved it before I take the trans and clutch out and start ordering parts. Help :)
 
What was the issue with your 67 Cuda when you had the issue with the manual trans / clutch when it would grind in reverse etc. I’m having the EXACT issues and would love to hear how you resolved it before I take the trans and clutch out and start ordering parts. Help :)
Did you catch that this thread is 10 years old?
 
Hi. Yes I saw that. The person that posted it is still an active user of the site. Just hoping he sees this and has some info on what the issue was.
 
-
Back
Top