A833 Neutral Issue

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twister6adh

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I bought this trans years ago with intentions of using it, but never have. I believe it came from a 69 GTS car. With the levers in the neutral positions, the input spins the output shaft basically at a 1:1. I've pulled the side panel and no chunks, shavings or missing teeth. Everything is really clean with visible paint markings on some of the gears. If you move any of the shift levers, it locks up the trans. Thoughts on what it could be?

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When in neutral while turning the input shaft the output shaft will turn unless you hold the output shaft. Have you tried holding it while turning the input
While in the neutral position? Also have you tried reverse?
 
If it does that with the side cover off and you can SEE the sliders are centered, then there is a problem IE the input pinion is stuck/ welded to the output shaft. Maybe someone ran it low/ without oil and the needle rollers in the drive pinion are AFU

I would try "a little more force" to see what you have before/ if tearing it down. Get a yoke/ driveshaft that fits and lock it some way. Get something to turn the input ?? a clutch disc?? and apply some goodly "arm" force. If it won't turn, big problem.. If it turns but hard, rough, big problem but you likely can get it apart.
 
67Dart273 said:
If it does that with the side cover off and you can SEE the sliders are centered, then there is a problem IE the input pinion is stuck/ welded to the output shaft. Maybe someone ran it low/ without oil and the needle rollers in the drive pinion are AFU
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Could be. I really don't have a clue. Just try to get a possible idea where to look. If I were to pull the front retainer, should the input shaft slide out "freely"?
 
twister6adh said:
Yes and yes. Locks up tight when you move any shift lever into gear.
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Very likely it’s exactly what Del described above. The stub on the output shaft rides in needle bearings in the bore of the input shaft. Really the only spot they could lock together aside from the gears locking them together but with it in neutral and still locked up that’s exactly where to look.
 
cudascott said:
Very likely it’s exactly what Del described above. The stub on the output shaft rides in needle bearings in the bore of the input shaft. Really the only spot they could lock together aside from the gears locking them together but with it in neutral and still locked up that’s exactly where to look.
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Thanks. I guess it gives me somewhere to start.
 
twister6adh said:
Could be. I really don't have a clue. Just try to get a possible idea where to look. If I were to pull the front retainer, should the input shaft slide out "freely"?
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I don't remember specifics anymore, it depends on "gearing." Some boxes you need to drop the cluster down in the box to give clearance. It's been so long since I've been into an 833 I have no idea what is involved if the shaft is actually "welded." If it gets to that you might want to try and "break" it in there IE support the thing and give it one hell of a whack on the tail shaft. You might--if you drop the cluster and pull the front bearing outer ring---might be able to pull everyting out the back, I don't know
 
67Dart273 said:
I don't remember specifics anymore, it depends on "gearing." Some boxes you need to drop the cluster down in the box to give clearance. It's been so long since I've been into an 833 I have no idea what is involved if the shaft is actually "welded." If it gets to that you might want to try and "break" it in there IE support the thing and give it one hell of a whack on the tail shaft. You might--if you drop the cluster and pull the front bearing outer ring---might be able to pull everyting out the back, I don't know
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I appreciate all the advice.
 
You will need to drop the counter gear shaft out and let the counter gear drop.At this point I would just pull it all apart and see what the output shaft stub and input shaft bore look like and inspect the rest of the parts as well.
 
cudascott said:
You will need to drop the counter gear shaft out and let the counter gear drop.At this point I would just pull it all apart and see what the output shaft stub and input shaft bore look like and inspect the rest of the parts as well.
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I did a little searching and found the procedure to disassemble. I have to think about it. Thanks again.
 
Here’s a couple pics of the part we’re talking about
BB249A1F-2F9B-49E0-954D-DAE729E0A2CB.jpeg
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I would give it a try with what Del recommended to see if you can get it to break free before you tear it apart. If it’s indeed galled up both parts you could probably
have a bushing installed in the input shaft and a sleeve pressed on the output shaft stub. But of course that’s machine work and money but may be cheaper than buying new shafts.
 
The O/D 833 needs the counter shaft dropped to remove tailshaft.
The regular 833, if you remove the input brg holder, and pull the input shaft the small amt avail, will give enuff clearance to sneek the 3/4 shift collar/output shaft past the counter gear, without dropping it.
 
inertia said:
The O/D 833 needs the counter shaft dropped to remove tailshaft.
The regular 833, if you remove the input brg holder, and pull the input shaft the small amt avail, will give enuff clearance to sneek the 3/4 shift collar/output shaft past the counter gear, without dropping it.
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Yea it can be done but at this point I would want to see all the bearings in this gearbox
 
Before you start taking the gear set out of it make sure that the brass synchro’s aren’t stuck to the gear cones. In neutral the brass synchro’s should spin freely.
 
twister6adh said:
. If you move any of the shift levers, it locks up the trans. Thoughts on what it could be?
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Any position ?or three out of five?
If you find one position,(like fourth for instance), then;what @mcodecuda said.
it happens all the time with units in storage. Just stick a screwdriver between the brass and the clutch teeth and give it a lil twist to make sure it's loose. If all 4 are already loose, IDK.
Since it spins at 1:1; it would have to be locked input to output, and I've never seen that...
If I had to guess I'd guess the output has slipped forward. Altho I see no evidence of that.
More likely is that the Fourth-Gear brass is jammed into the brake because the struts are out of sync; I've seen rooky assemblers make that mistake.
 
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