another first timer on E85

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71gtdart

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I dont know what to think of it. my car is running mid to high 6.80's on the e85. it has been 6.81 on 110 gas.

they want egt readings at around 1250-1280. mine is at 1305-1320 and if I try to go richer it smokes all the way down the track and runs 6.90's.

on a positive note I left it on the car for the bracket race saturday. went like this.

first practice run- .005 RT, 6.885 1/8TH MILE ET

2nd practice run: -.006 RT, 6.873 1/8th MILE ET

FIRST ROUND: .006 RT, 6.874 1/8th Mile ET on a 6.86 dial in

2nd ROUND: -.011 RT, 6.879 1/8th Mile ET on a 6.86 dial in

3rd ROUND: .043 RT, 6.858 1/8TH Mile ET on a 6.88 dial in.

the car was on repeat during the day. I was very pleased with that since that is the whole reason for me switching to the fuel.

it got dark between the 2nd and 3rd round. I was showing a 38% increase in humidity and a drop of almost 1200 ft in density altitude between the rounds.

not knowing which one has the biggest effect on e85, I was pacing wondering what to dial. will the humidity going up that much make it slow down, or will the big drop in temp and density altitude make it speed up?

well, I went with the humidity slowing it down approach and I was wrong big time. I put a 6.88 dial on the car and as soon as I launched I knew I was in trouble, lol. the car left harder than it had all day and I knew I would have to kill some ET. I had a ton of room at the finish line due to the opponents really bad light, and me being on a break out pass. 3 car lengths from the line I just stop on the brakes and ride em through the stripe. I killed over 5 mph from the pass before and still broke out by 3 numbers!!!!

I did some adding and plugging averages of my 330ft-660ft splits, and I found that I was going to run a 6.83 on that run had I not hit the brakes!!

I guess density altitude is still the thing to look at just like when racing with 110 gas. the difference is that my car would move .01 for every 200ft of change in DA when I was on gas. using my notes I am showing that it will take a change of 325 ft in DA to move .01 on the e85.

Justus Daniel from Raceon e85.com is coming to the track saturday to help out with some tuning. maybe we can pick up a little more ET out of it, and hopefully the changes will help make the ET's even more stable.
 
Thanks for posting and keeping us in your loop-Many of us are watching and learning about E85 and it's benefits-PLEASE post again with results you get,YOU are helping lots of people here and every little bit helps ALL of us--Thanks-Steve a.k.a. Swifter
 
Nice RT's are you on a box???? What class are you running and what car/suspension do you have????? Steve
 
Mmmm, I have have read that if your gas carb was REALLY dialed in the gains will be smaller when switching to e85, like a 2-3 hundredths in the 1/8. Keep tuning, I'm sure it will come around.

One of the things I noticed so far was I need to get the temp up to 180°F to make the best power. Also, I gave up on trying to read my plugs...I just ordered a wideband air/fuel meter so I can tune mine better (I'm going to install it later this week).

The main reason I switched was for the cooling effect (and the power too), which works REALLY well. This weekend I drove across town to Target (probably 6-7 miles) and didn't turn my fan on till I was about 200 yards from the store....in comparison, on gas I would have had my fan on after 1-1.5 miles.

I have heard/read good things about Justus. Hopefully he will be able to help you get that thing dialed in.
 
Flyfish--I'm with ya on this one,I ordered the fast dual sensor logging A/F meter for our valiant when it finally gets here.E85 next year for us but hell $400 for meter beats 10,000 for a motor any day--Steve
 
Sweet, another e85 user. What's your mph in huge 1/8? I just got mine to the track. Ire doing 7.12 in the 1/8 and ran 11.29 @116. My afr was at .74-.75 (10.8-11.0)on the big end which is rich Ive got it down to .8-.82.(closer to 12.0-12.3) Hoping to get a few more mph and possibly into the 10s with leaning It out.
 
swifter said:
Nice RT's are you on a box???? What class are you running and what car/suspension do you have????? Steve
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I'm not using a box, but I might as well be. I use a blinder and cover up the first 2 bulbs on the tree. I just sit staring at the last buld and as soon as I see a flash I let the transbrake go. you have to play with front tire pressure, 2 step rpm, and the button if it is adjustable. once you figure it out it is pretty easy to repeat RT's within a small window.

thats a whole other thread, lol!

I run in the Modified class. its the same thing as Super or Footbrake. we are allowed to run anything except a delay box.

I'm running super stock springs with the fronts clamped up tight. QA1 adjustable shocks all around, and slant 6 torsion bars.
 
1980volare said:
Sweet, another e85 user. What's your mph in huge 1/8? I just got mine to the track. Ire doing 7.12 in the 1/8 and ran 11.29 @116. My afr was at .74-.75 (10.8-11.0)on the big end which is rich Ive got it down to .8-.82.(closer to 12.0-12.3) Hoping to get a few more mph and possibly into the 10s with leaning It out.
Click to expand...

MPH for me in the 1/8th is around 98.30's at the ET's in the original post. I run a glide with a 1.76 first gear and a 4.86 3rd member ratio.
 
flyfish said:
Mmmm, I have have read that if your gas carb was REALLY dialed in the gains will be smaller when switching to e85, like a 2-3 hundredths in the 1/8. Keep tuning, I'm sure it will come around.

One of the things I noticed so far was I need to get the temp up to 180°F to make the best power. Also, I gave up on trying to read my plugs...I just ordered a wideband air/fuel meter so I can tune mine better (I'm going to install it later this week).

The main reason I switched was for the cooling effect (and the power too), which works REALLY well. This weekend I drove across town to Target (probably 6-7 miles) and didn't turn my fan on till I was about 200 yards from the store....in comparison, on gas I would have had my fan on after 1-1.5 miles.

I have heard/read good things about Justus. Hopefully he will be able to help you get that thing dialed in.
Click to expand...


I could maybe use a little more timing. I have not touched it from where I had it on gas. right now it is 35 degrees. what are you running for a total timing?

I will have to try staging at 180 degrees. I have been going in the water box at 160 and staging at about 168-170.

I think just a timing and air bleed change could be what brings the et's around. Justus seemed to agree on the phone this morning. I guess we will know this weekend.
 
71gtdart said:
I could maybe use a little more timing. I have not touched it from where I had it on gas. right now it is 35 degrees. what are you running for a total timing?

I will have to try staging at 180 degrees. I have been going in the water box at 160 and staging at about 168-170.

I think just a timing and air bleed change could be what brings the et's around. Justus seemed to agree on the phone this morning. I guess we will know this weekend.
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I'm at 34* and haven't tried touching it yet. May try that Friday and see what happens. I did lean mine out by swapping from a 24 hsab to a 28. It put me to right at 12.0 or .81 lambda lets us know what you swap out.
 
71gtdart said:
I could maybe use a little more timing. I have not touched it from where I had it on gas. right now it is 35 degrees. what are you running for a total timing?

I will have to try staging at 180 degrees. I have been going in the water box at 160 and staging at about 168-170.

I think just a timing and air bleed change could be what brings the et's around. Justus seemed to agree on the phone this morning. I guess we will know this weekend.
Click to expand...

I haven't changed my timing yet, still at 34°. Once I make sure my carb is setup well with my wideband, which I'm installing either tonight or tomorrow, I'll mess with the timing. I have races Saturday and Sunday this weekend, so I don't really have time to tune much. Sundays race is the National Dragster Challenge...time to bring home the Wally!:D:D:D
 
Good luck flyfish go get them !!!!!!! Let us know how u do !!!!!! Steve
 
well, got some more info to share on my bracket racing with e85.

carb still has a little stumble if I don't ease it to wide open throttle. without bashing too much, the carb builder was there and could have cared less. I get there early and go over to him. he says, "ok, what do you need? air bleeds or what ?" I said, " you tell me, thats what we came early for." anyway, I make a pass and I make sure to hit the throttle hard when I set the transbrake. it stumbles a little and then goes on the 2-step. car makes a good run and I go back to my pit. he never comes to the pit. go down for 1st round and he walks over and said, " I heard a little stumble, you just need a little more fine tuning because it ran great." great technical support!

anyway, 1st round I hit the throttle a little to fast and the car stumbles and cuts off as my tree is coming down. so I lose 1st round, but the starter was kind enough to reset the tree and let me make a pass to get a time slip. car goes a 6.822 with a very strong tail wind pushing it down the track. I go to the tower and buy back into the 2nd round.

2nd round the flag says no tail wind. I put a 6.83 dial on the car. I cut a .018 light to the other guys .024. I jam the brakes about 4ft from the finish line and go a 6.847 to win the round. after doing some math on the split times it looks like the car was going to go a high 6.83 to a low 6.84.

third round comes. the density altitude has dropped 400 ft. going by what the car did last week it showed that it would take a change of around 300 to 400 ft in da to make the car move 1 number. I decide to put a 6.83 on the car again. I sleep a little on the tree with a .050 light, but get away with it since the other guy goes red. I run it out and the car goes 6.841.

fourth round. the DA has dropped another 500 feet. guys are dialing their cars down 3 numbers because of it. I decide to put a 6.82 dial on the car, and almost went with a 6.81. Its dark now, and I adjust the front tire pressure and trans brake button to stay in the beams longer on the tree since I can see the light way better now and will react quicker. well, should have adjusted a little more. I go -.006 red with 10 cars left. I run the car out and it goes a 6.836. despite all of the dropp in DA the car really only moved about .005 to .007 over the last 3 runs. sixty foot times for the last 3 runs were 1.482, 1.481, 1.481.

I think I am about ready to say that e85 is the real deal for bracket racing. cheap and consistent.

gonna play with squirters and such until I get the stumble fixed so I can hit the throttle to the floor instead of having to ease it there when setting the transbrake.

the weather was almost a mirror image of what we raced in last week. if you recall I was running 6.87's last week. this week I was running about 3 to 4 hundreths faster. the only reason I have for it is that I took flyfish's advise and staged at 180 instead of 165 to 170. that was the only change, so it must have worked.
 
Sorry to hear about the lack of support after the sale, that sucks man. My car was running 6.81-6.84 this weekend (1400-1600' DA) when it wasn't spinning. The e85 pump by my house switched to summer blend (84% EtOH) and I have not been able to get the tune back in it yet. I was expecting the car to run 6.75-6.77, but it was a little off. I know with more EtOH you need to jet up to compensate, but I have not found the sweet spot yet.

I got my wide-band installed Friday, seems to work. It told me I was lean so I jetted up...still lean so I jetted up more....anyway, I'm thinking I might add some gas to make it e77, because I had a pretty good tune when there was more gas present.

I had a craptastic race weekend, lost Rd1 both days, bought back in both days and lost Rd3 both days. They had some new guys that I have never seen before working the starting line and water box....starting line prep was awful all weekend, 60' times were from 1.47 to 1.54...hard to dial with that big of a swing, but I did. Dialed 6.87 and played the stripe. My 3 rd loss in the Wally race was to a friend of mine who I KNOW has a stipe taker on the front of his car, but when I was coming up on the finish line I had a brain fart and tried to close the gap on his wheel and not on the stripe taker :violent1:...so I essentially handed him the stripe even though I beat him on the tree .024 to his .036 :eek:ops:....oh well, try again in a few weeks.
 
My brother and I have been running E-85 for years, and have converted many racers and carburetors to it. Here are some interesting things we have noticed that many may not agree with(80-plus wins in 7 years by one car doesn't lie) a. Go ahead and drill out squirters with .062 drill, any smaller it stumbles. b. testing fuel from70% to 85% showed only minimal changes, so small we don't test fuel anymore. c. all cars converted picked up an average of 2 tenths,2 mph in 1/8 mile, this includes low compression motors. d. have had best luck with ngk v-power plugs changed every 50 passes. As far as some negative tales on internal engine damage due to acid etc. etc., a tear down of a 650 horse sbm after 700 passes proved the opposite, it looked brand new.
 
mr.twister said:
My brother and I have been running E-85 for years, and have converted many racers and carburetors to it. Here are some interesting things we have noticed that many may not agree with(80-plus wins in 7 years by one car doesn't lie) a. Go ahead and drill out squirters with .062 drill, any smaller it stumbles. b. testing fuel from70% to 85% showed only minimal changes, so small we don't test fuel anymore. c. all cars converted picked up an average of 2 tenths,2 mph in 1/8 mile, this includes low compression motors. d. have had best luck with ngk v-power plugs changed every 50 passes. As far as some negative tales on internal engine damage due to acid etc. etc., a tear down of a 650 horse sbm after 700 passes proved the opposite, it looked brand new.
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well, you sound like the man we have been looking for.

I know each car and combo is different, but how about a little info.

like the following:

1. what temp do you stage at?
2. what EGT temps do you run at?
3. what weather condition has the most effect on e85 slowing down or speeding up during a race?


I'll take any info that you are willing to give. I am really interested in info that is of use for bracket racing with e85.

what type of ET swings to you see from the start of a race until the end?

thanks for any info.
 
We try to stage @150-160,have no idea what egt were getting(tune by temp build, mph) As far as temperature vs. consistency during a race, its very similar to gas only tighter, they love cold dry air, one thing to mention, we notice more variance in e.t. in relation to how long were idle(waiting in the pits)than engine temp. My car will run same e.t. if I stage @150 or 180.
 
another tidbit on the e-85 experience so far.

went to race for the first time in a few weeks this past saturday. the track I ran at does not allow transbrakes and 2-steps in their "no box" class.

so I went delay box racing for the first time and entered in the pro class.

no offense to anyone running in a box class, but that is so easy a caveman can do it!

my buddy told me how much to put in the box as a starting point, and my first 4 passes were .003 green, -.002 red, .002 green, and .016 green.

its a very exciting class to run though, because of how tight the margain of victory is!!!

anyway, the car went 6.855, 6.847, 6.844, 6.851, and 6.848 from 1pm -7:30pm.

ran dead on a few times but got a little greedy with the delay box and took some delay out. lost that round by going -.004 red!


this stuff is super consistant and cheap!!!!
 
got some more race experience on E85 yesterday.

had a good day at the track, but left with my butt on my shoulders.
got down to 6 cars in the Summit Super Series race and give the round away by staring at the tree to long resulting in the most pitful light of the day. it wasn't in the triple digits, but it was bad. to top it off I ran a 6.880 on a 6.88 dial in on that pass and still lost!

even thought I heard the car say, "damn dude, can I get a little help. I can't do it all!!"

up until that point my reaction times were .006, .016, .044, .002, and .021.
had a heck of a day going. the car and driver both were on their "A" game until the driver let the car down.

car went 6.865, 6.870, 6.878, 6.880, 6.884, and 6.880 on its runs yesterday. I ran dead on with a zero on two different runs, and dead on with a five on another one. all other runs I was on the brakes at the finish line.

this E85 is worth every penny that it cost to convert a car over to it, if you bracket race. I have enough time in with it now that I can say without a doubt that I will never race on gas again unless something happens to the E85.
 
71gtdart said:
........

even thought I heard the car say, "damn dude, can I get a little help. I can't do it all!!"

.................
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Your car talks to you too? Haha, glad I'm not the only one :D. Nice work getting down to 6 cars.
 
it just keeps getting better guys!

ran both pro and modified today. won the dash for cash in modified by going dead on with a 3. lost the tie breaker for the dash for cash win in pro. ran dead on with a 1, but the other guy was a tick better on the tree so he got it.

all in all the car ran dead on 5 times today! I went red third round in pro by taking too much out of the delay box. in modified I lost in a real barn burner.

other guy was .014 on the tree to my .019, and he ran dead on with a zero to my dead on with a three! lost that sucker by .008 at the finish line. someone just had to lose and thats all there was to it, but Ill take .019 and dead on with a 3 every pass.

had no trouble at all with the engine temps today. it was 94 degrees and the car would never go above 180 degrees. I only had to cool it to 170 degrees since that is what I go into the water box at. running both classes is fun, but its a ton of work if you don't have some help. all in all not a bad day, and some of the credit goes to the E85 for that. if it keeps going the way its going then the dart will have its first win before the seasons end.
 
had a good day at the track yesterday. runnered up in the modified eliminator class.

should have won but took to much stripe and broke out by .002.

car ran great on the e85.

2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounds the car ran a 6.83.

in the final I should have put a 6.82 on it, but decided to hold a little. went a 6.828 with a slight brake tap at the finish line. had plenty of room to slow down some more and get the easy win, but had one of those rookie moments.

the e85 is great and has turned the dart into a very consistent race car.
 
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