Another straggler followed me home!

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I patched the rocker. I had forgot about the doglegs. This is the driver side and now I just have to do the pass side.

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Done deal. Yeah! :D It got Treytan's approval!


Now it's back to the Dart, after I throw the interior in it.

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A little more tinkering. The grill is not bad but it has some missing fins. So I decided to make it black. The holes will not be so noticeable this way. I will have to see if I can match the argent color used on a black grill.

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Grill and bumper make it look better. My color isn't a perfect match but it's pretty good. Mine is more silver where as the original has a brown tinge to it. May just be age.

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And it just keeps getting better and better..............
Looks good, George!
I'll have to come over one of these mornings to see it.
I heard you got a windshield for it off of that Tom dude............
 
I fully agree with you.
Well, i need to say this.
You have come a long way in your welding and fabrication skills since i first met you, George.
A lot of this has to do with attitude, and the willingness to jump in, get your hands dirty, and not be afraid to try new things.
A lot of people would say, why not buy the AMD drop offs etc. because they fit better, blah blah blah.
These are also the people that insist on a $10,000 resto paint job.

For lack of a better way of putting it, you are showing the people on here what you can achieve by starting with a decent overall car that needs some love in the rust department, (and LOOKS a bit bad) using skills that a typical do it your selfer has or acquires by tackling projects like these.
(Having a decent shop and tools helps too i guess.)
You will end up with a car that is a good functional driver for someone when you pass it on, and though not a particularly rare car deserving a high dollar top end resto, it will be a nice car for someone to enjoy and have a lot of fun with and not worry about rust issues ever again.
This also represents a car your average joe that is on a lower end budget would like to fix up and personalize it after you get the metal work done and enjoy the rest of the build............

Isn't that what this hobby is all about?
Not everything needs to be bucks up and perfect to be a good functional car.
My hat's off to you for doing this and posting lots of pictures for all to see and learn.
Maybe this will inspire some others to tackle something similar and get another one on the road to be enjoyed.............
Thanks for

Dartnut I understand the sincerity here by being supportive of your friend. I do think for someone learning the ropes and doing things on a budget that gdrill is doing good work reviving old cars most young people only see as trash. It is my generation that doesn't hold the same esteem for a lot of these vehicles. I know for one that my build seems absolutely asinine to friends of mine. Why? Why when the money I am putting into this car could buy me a brand new Mercedes or easily pay for most of a jaguar F-Type?

A little about me, I worked through high school and most of my years in university as a 'shop boy' watching others restore 100k show cars and racecars. I graduated three year ago with a degree in marketing with an emphasis on statistical analysis and economics. I went to work for a high caliber banking firm in New York then D. C. as a regional markets analyst. I made more money in 1 year doing this than all seven years of working as a shop hand alone. I hated it though, there was vicious competition, a cold-calculated cost of doing business and, while I was not a trader or a portfolio director, there was a sense of disconcern for consequence. I worked 80 hour work weeks. I was all over the country/world for different reasons. I never had time for me, I had money but in return I lost my relationships, my ability to do for me and love of experience. I couldn't even work on my car, instead it sat wayward waiting for my time.

So I left, I came to work with my dad who has been running a very successful hot-rod only shop in Northern California. Now I don't do technical work, I only manage and sustain accounts, payroll and hiring. I work 40-50 hours a week like a normal person and I am paid much less while being much happier. So, fast forward a year and not only do I handle all business aspects but I am squarely in charge of bringing new accounts in, meaning I'm doing what I love. Selling. I'm very good at it too. In fact two months ago I took a consultant based position with a concours shop in Northern California. I won't say which but I will say we specialize in Aston Martins, so if you want to really know a Google search should suffice. I work only 20-30 hours a month there, am paid a salary and I basically only show up when we go to events, auctions or shows to convince really, really rich dudes that they want to restore their cars with us for the tune of $300,000 or so.

Why do I tell you all this? Not to brag or rub it in. In fact, I am making two-thirds less money than a year ago. It's not about the money or success. It's to give you an idea that I speak from experience and knowledge. After all, I'm under 30. I'm sure your experience differs. What I can safely say is that auto body is the hardest sell for hot rod enthusiasts. It makes not one bit of sense to me either. At our shop we break down a budget, build a plan and then execute as closely as we can. Obviously things come up or customers change course. It happens all the time.

Most the time we can sell them on the $12,000 engine build or the $8,000 frame fabrication work but then they have a hard time swallowing a $10,000 dollar paint job. Hell, they just put $12,000 in leather and fabrication work in the interior. Why is it that you guys have a hard time paying for the work done when it comes to body and paint? It's the first thing one typically notices from a distance. A great paint job makes or breaks interest in your car. Not just people gawking but judges too. It is like going to the barber and telling him you don't care what it looks like only that it is finished cheaply and quickly. Now, we work budget builds as well, 3-4 grand paint jobs vs $15,000 jobs are not even remotely close in terms of quality, finish and fit.

I hate the sentiment here, dartnut, it comes off like autobodies rip you off but if you saw the amount of work that went into a 10k-20k paint job you'd know why it was expensive. 300-400-500 hours of work, every small issue fixed, fabrication work that can take days, coating, sanding, coating, sanding. On and on. Hours and hours of wet sanding with softer grit to get that wet like look to paint. Now, is this what is typical? No. I'm just stating, hot rod lovers will spend their entire budget on 'go fast' parts but bemoan work done when it comes to body and paint. If you don't care so be it, we won't put our name on a finished product when someone doesn't care. Really, it's a passion. One of my favorite cars is the '73 dart. I love the body lines. Does it make sense I've put in 12k on the engine or am buying a sst 6 speed Magnum for a car that will be worth maybe 25-30k all said? No. It's a love. Sometimes the money just doesn't make sense. Other times it does. When you want to keep within a set budget or value of the vehicle it makes sense. But don't act like a 10k paint job is simply a luxury or a bling purchase. There is a difference, a monumental one. I'm not saying dgrills work is bad but put side by side you'd be able to spot a huge difference in quality.
 
Oh my.........


I happen to have friends who do concourse restos. Those are on cars that deserve such. Not every car out there needs or deserves that kind of work. Some cars will actually be used and driven. Most of the cars that get "those" jobs done on them stay in a garage and only go to shows.......if that.

Sorry, don't take this the wrong way. Your business isn't for everyone, in fact, it's for very few. A limited few. There are far more people on budgets than there are with money to burn. Those of us, actually like the fact that "we" built the car. Be it perfect or not. That is something 99% of your clients don't have a clue about.

Carry on, I like show cars too, I just don't have any use for one. I believe those are just money sunk that won't be recovered.

The sad fact is, most cars people build aren't worth near their investment when done. They are just a car that somebody loved and wanted to build.
 
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Oh my.........


I happen to have friends who do concourse restos. Those are on cars that deserve such. Not every car out there needs or deserves that kind of work. Some cars will actually be used and driven. Most of the cars that get "those" jobs done on them stay in a garage and only go to shows.......if that.

Sorry, don't take this the wrong way. Your business isn't for everyone, in fact, it's for very few. A limited few. There are far more people on budgets than there are with money to burn. Those of us, actually like the fact that "we" built the car. Be it perfect or not. That is something 99% of your clients don't have a clue about.

Carry on, I like show cars too, I just don't have any use for one. I believe those are just money sunk that won't be recovered.

And that's where you're missing the point. Most of our clients do shows yes but most of out clients are return business and I happen to know a lot of them are also just as enthusiastic about this sorta thing as you and I. They have numerous cars, they do drive them and sometimes they drive them hard. "We" built them is a statement many of my clients can say. We work with everyone. I won't go into our clientele but we have everyone from music people, business owners, to ma and pa who did everything that they could at home and are looking for help to finish. As I've said, we, as in my family, only work on American vehicles. It's what we know. I don't think we've ever done a concours restoration here. Now, the other shop my father retired from and who brought me on as a consultant is a whole other level of clientele. Yes, they are the .1% who can afford such luxuries, and they are luxuries, but we will never see those people in our shop. Most our builds are under 20k, we have a separate shop on grounds for our higher level stuff, we don't mix the two. We do enough business at both to sustain but it is highly skewed towards budget builds.

I just hate the sentiment that putting in quality time and money on body and paint is seen as luxury or for show cars only. Imagine if BMW started stating quality bodywork and paint is an added cost, a luxury cost.

Now, me, I love this homebrew ****. I love seeing people innovate and expand their learning. What I don't agree with is anti-sentiment against the time that goes into quality work.
 
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On another note, today I installed the headliner. These cardboard liners are different. I've done a few Soft headliners and they were fairly easy. But these ones would be tough to get in the car, if the windshield was in. For me, I just slid it through the front window and it wasn't too bad. It is a black liner from one of my previous Demons. I think this car would have had Gold, but it wasn't there anyway. I have heard of converting them to soft. I like the look of those better, but that isn't in the cards here. Now I have to clean up and dye the seat belts.
 
And that's where you're missing the point. Most of our clients do shows yes but most of out clients are return business and I happen to know a lot of them are also just as enthusiastic about this sorta thing as you and I. They have numerous cars, they do drive them and sometimes they drive them hard. "We" built them is a statement many of my clients can say. We work with everyone. I won't go into our clientele but we have everyone from music people, business owners, to ma and pa who did everything that they could at home and are looking for help to finish. As I've said, we, as in my family, only work on American vehicles. It's what we know. I don't think we've ever done a concours restoration here. Now, the other shop my father retired from and who brought me on as a consultant is a whole other level of clientele. Yes, they are the .1% who can afford such luxuries, and they are luxuries, but we will never see those people in our shop. Most our builds are under 20k, we have a separate shop on grounds for our higher level stuff, we don't mix the two. We do enough business at both to sustain but it is highly skewed towards budget builds.

I just hate the sentiment that putting in quality time and money on body and paint is seen as luxury or for show cars only. Imagine if BMW started stating quality bodywork and paint is an added cost, a luxury cost.

Now, me, I love this homebrew ****. I love seeing people innovate and expand their learning. What I don't agree with is anti-sentiment against the time that goes into quality work.
I just read your two posts in their entirety.
An excellent read, i must say.
Perhaps you could embrace a new perspective.
This hobby has many facets and many different opinions on how to build and enjoy a car.
That being said, i honestly do appreciate the work and the skill (money aside) that it takes to do a high end quality restoration as well as the time it takes to do it right.
I have a close friend that has restored high end Mopars and i consider him one of the best if not the best that i have ever seen especially at the body prep and paint portion.
He is a skilled craftsman for sure with a humble disposition. His knowledge is immense and has roughly 45 years of experience. We're talking $100,000 Hemi cars that have made it in the magazines, won awards, etc.
To put this into perspective, i personally do not have the skills, facility, tools, or money to do a quality restoration.
However, i sincerely respect the people that do.
I am a journeyman welder/fabricator and a heavy duty mechanic/millright by trade and now learning industrial robotics. So i know a bit.
This is where i think you are missing the point here.
Who doesn't want a beautifully painted and restored car?
I sure do!
As a matter of fact, years ago i had one of those.
I worked two jobs and dedicated over 2 years to restoring this car, and it was beautiful when it was finished.
Then it came to me after a period of time that it wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. (On the fun scale).
Worrying about weather conditions, storage, depreciation, you know the routine.
Yes, it was awesome to own and drive.
I grew up in an era when these cars were new or nearly new, and people had a lot of fun with them with bolt-ons, drag racing, and generally running the **** out of them.
The fit and finish on them from the factory was mediocre at best. Let's be honest.
Just like the new cars of today, the company was in the business of making money first, and image and quality were secondary to profits.
Yes, they do want return customers and love to steal buyers from other brands, but it's all a game to them. Always has been, always will be.
With your experience in marketing etc. you obviously understand this concept well.
For example, Chrysler only built Hemi cars for the image and their real goal was to sell a boatload of 318 and slant 6 cars to the general public.

To keep this in perspective, the vast majority of us on this site are common working stiffs that appreciate the high end or medium end car builds whether it be Mopars, Fords, G.M.s, Aston Martin, Porsche, etc. etc. etc.
Some of us are true enthusiasts that want to save cars and build them to our liking so we can drive them in all weather situations on a low budget.
A lot of the cars that fall under that category are the cheaper and considered uncollectable A-Bodies that you see on this site.
So, what's wrong if someone wants to learn how to do body work and paint themselves, as well as building an engine, installing a refurbished interior that's not perfect, rebuilding the suspension etc.?

Not all of us have deep pockets so we can simply write a check and get someone to ''restore'' a car for them and call it their own...........
There's no reason to belittle or undermine anyone about their efforts and their thoughts/dreams/enthusiasm.
I find that most of the fun is with rolling up your sleeves and jumping into a project, and learn as you go.

As i sit here and type this, it is raining on my P.O.S. '74 Dart Sport 360 4 speed car with substandard paint and i don't care.
If i chose to take it for a drive, i could jump right in it and visit George across town and drive on a gravel road in the rain to get there and not worry about resale, stains, rock chips, etc. and have fun there and have fun back.
It's because i built it to drive it, no more, no less. I'm a true enthusiast in the literal sense.

Final thought, how many of your customers could make that statement?
Could you?
Maybe give it a few years..............
 
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Today I laid down the first set of Coronet tracks on my driveway! The Coronet has to move outside during certain tasks, so being rainy and slippery I figured why not? If you're not familiar, the Coronet followed me home in 2013. I can't believe it's been that long! My how time flies. I also played with the timing and idle a bit. Seems happier now.

Lol,and I've been laughing all day at your post Dartnut! Hopes and dreams! It's gonna take alot more than somebody on this forum to knock back my enthusiasm! I've been around way too long to worry about the little things, but you already know that. ;)


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"So, what's wrong if someone wants to learn how to do body work and paint themselves, as well as building an engine, installing a refurbished interior that's not perfect, rebuilding the suspension etc.?

Not all of us have deep pockets so we can simply write a check and get someone to ''restore'' a car for them and call it their own...........
There's no reason to belittle or undermine anyone about their efforts and their thoughts/dreams/enthusiasm.
I find that most of the fun is with rolling up your sleeves and jumping into a project, and learn as you go."

First I'd like to say sorry to those who felt I undermined or belittled their projects or work. It was not my intention and as I've said before I do respect work at all levels. I simply found issue in statement about how expensive paint jobs were a waste of money. I have deep respect for people at that level. So again, I'm sorry it seemed that way.

Second, I owe an apology to dgrill, I've hijacked your thread and made it a discussion about the polar opposite view points of the community.

So, thank you dartnut for your reply, I appreciate your passion and desire to "enjoy" your vehicles in your own way. As you've said it is a perspective. I can't speak for how people want to or do enjoy their vehicles. I have customers who are happy sitting around their vehicle collection and admiring the art of what they have built. But I also have people, like me, who like a good looking vehicle and don't care about resell value. If I mess it up over the course of 15 years I'll just rebuild it. It's not going anywhere. I'll love it, put the time in maintaining it and enjoy it in my own way.

Now, I won't say names but we have a customer at the concours shop who sells floor mats for vehicles. He's a rare exception, but, he drives two of his vehicles almost weekly. He's spent over 350,000 dollars restoring to concours. He flew out a DB4 that he had won at auction, told us he was tired of his friends winning best of show in this segment, told us cost didn't matter, restored the vehicle for Pebble, picked it up a couple days before the show, and drove it down. He does that with both his DB4 and a 365 GTB. The guy is eccentric and loves driving these priceless, rare vehicles. We've done well over five vehicles for him and are bidding on doing a certain rare Ferrari he won at auction recently. I found it to be quite an interesting and funny story, you see enthusiast at all levels.
 
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Swinger, don't sweat it. As I said, I don't let the little things bother me. I'd be dead already if I did that. You're welcome to comment here like everybody else. The paint thing is just a conversation. I've said it before, I'll say it again.
"Enjoy the cars, that's all they are."
 
"So, what's wrong if someone wants to learn how to do body work and paint themselves, as well as building an engine, installing a refurbished interior that's not perfect, rebuilding the suspension etc.?

Not all of us have deep pockets so we can simply write a check and get someone to ''restore'' a car for them and call it their own...........
There's no reason to belittle or undermine anyone about their efforts and their thoughts/dreams/enthusiasm.
I find that most of the fun is with rolling up your sleeves and jumping into a project, and learn as you go."

First I'd like to say sorry to those who felt I undermined or belittled their projects or work. It was not my intention and as I've said before I do respect work at all levels. I simply found issue in statement about how expensive paint jobs were a waste of money. I have deep respect for people at that level. So again, I'm sorry it seemed that way.

Second, I owe an apology to dgrill, I've hijacked your thread and made it a discussion about the polar opposite view points of the community.

So, thank you dartnut for your reply, I appreciate your passion and desire to "enjoy" your vehicles in your own way. As you've said it is a perspective. I can't speak for how people want to or do enjoy their vehicles. I have customers who are happy sitting around their vehicle collection and admiring the art of what they have built. But I also have people, like me, who like a good looking vehicle and don't care about resell value. If I mess it up over the course of 15 years I'll just rebuild it. It's not going anywhere. I'll love it, put the time in maintaining it and enjoy it in my own way.

Now, I won't say names but we have a customer at the concours shop who sells floor mats for vehicles. He's a rare exception, but, he drives two of his vehicles almost weekly. He's spent over 350,000 dollars restoring to concours. He flew out a DB4 that he had won at auction, told us he was tired of his friends winning best of show in this segment, told us cost didn't matter, restored the vehicle for Pebble, picked it up a couple days before the show, and drove it down. He does that with both his DB4 and a 365 GTB. The guy is eccentric and loves driving these priceless, rare vehicles. We've done well over five vehicles for him and are bidding on doing a certain rare Ferrari he won at auction recently. I found it to be quite an interesting and funny story, you see enthusiast at all levels.
Thanks for the reply and apology, 74SwingerA.
I would like to apologize to you and the other people on FABO for my behavior.
And also to gdrill (George) for hijacking his thread with my ''spirited'' comments and follow through on your posts.
I should have just let it go.
I sometimes get opinionated and run off at the mouth over trivial things, it's just part of my nature i suppose.
BTW, I don't think that expensive paint jobs are a waste of money, quite the contrary.
I see the beauty in all cars from Concours de Elegance to rat rods.
The way i see it, your money, your car, your decision on what makes you happy.
And, for what it's worth, my hat is off to the guy you mentioned that drives his concours restored cars often!
When i hear about people driving or showing their cars (good, bad, or ugly) and enjoying them, to me, that's what is the best part of the hobby.
I like going to the junk yards as much as a car show.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...............
 
Today I laid down the first set of Coronet tracks on my driveway! The Coronet has to move outside during certain tasks, so being rainy and slippery I figured why not? If you're not familiar, the Coronet followed me home in 2013. I can't believe it's been that long! My how time flies. I also played with the timing and idle a bit. Seems happier now.

Lol,and I've been laughing all day at your post Dartnut! Hopes and dreams! It's gonna take alot more than somebody on this forum to knock back my enthusiasm! I've been around way too long to worry about the little things, but you already know that. ;)


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Well ,it's about time you did a water burn out with the Coronet!
Maybe i'll bring my car over this weekend and do a snow burnout............
(That's what the forecast is for)
 
Ya, it's going to be a crappy weekend. But I'm going to load an engine in the Duster and see if I can make it cruise the yard anyway!
 
OK, I had to run away for a bit, but I'm back. I had a 318 kicking around that had a couple ticky lifters. So I replaced 16 of them and stuffed the engine in the Duster. It is a good running engine aside from needing the lifters. I drove this engine in y 84 short box. It supposedly has a mild cam in it, but that truck made it hard to tell with the big tires and lift. In any case it should do fine in here. I didn't bother painting it up as the next owner will likely yank it anyway.

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A little more progress. I climbed underneath the Duster and installed the fuel tank and drive shaft. I might just try to drive this thing tomorrow or the next day! Then I moved over to the Dart and removed the vinyl top trim. Happily there was no major rust underneath. It had a bit of pitting so I 36 gritted it and laid some fiberglass over that to smooth it out. It probably would have been fine because it will be covered but oh well. Then I sanded the dutch-man panel to bare steel and primed it.

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Well, one straggler has found a new home. It left with a set of bucket seats and frame connectors. Hopefully the new owner will have it on the streets by next summer! Here it is in it's new abode. It drove on / off the trailer and into the garage. Something it hasn't been able to do for a loooooong time!

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I got bored and took some 80 grit to the car. Then it was followed by some grey.........
It's too bad about the rust, because it sure is a straight car.

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Now this is a.............well, you decide! It is a 74 Challenger that somebody tried to make a stock car out of. It was a fail. But it will be able to donate a few parts before it meets total demise. I need front rails for a 70 I have and the door hinges will help my 71. It has a few other savable chunks of steel, but not much!

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