Anyone here use Schubeck lifters ?

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604B1duster

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Anyone with firsthand info on use and spring rates with Schubeck ceramic solid flat tappets. May use them in a 408 with lunati 30200743. I have ported eddys with pac 1903 springs in at 1.80. Thanks
 
What does spring rate have to do with lifters, Schubeck or otherwise?

Use what the cam requires.
 
rmchrgr said:
What does spring rate have to do with lifters, Schubeck or otherwise?

Use what the cam requires.
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That's what I figured, but I found some info saying to use 200#s closed to keep the lifter from bouncing and cracking the ceramic
 
It has been reported that the lifters can not ha doe a lot of spring pressure. Now how accurate that is as well as how much they can handle I do not know and if it is true or not.
After all, there are some that will put a 1,000lbs. open spring on a street Hyd.
You know these rocket scientist's exist.
 
Where did you read that? What was the context for it? Pretty unlikely any lifter would 'bounce' if the valvetrain was set up properly and the pushrods were correct. Cobbling stuff together usually requires proper verification.

With any engine, you need to make sure the lifters rotate and get the proper amount of oil for the rpm range. Valves can float at high rpm but with an off the shelf cam you would probably not have issues like that.
 
rmchrgr said:
Where did you read that? What was the context for it? Pretty unlikely any lifter would 'bounce' if the valvetrain was set up properly and the pushrods were correct. Cobbling stuff together usually requires proper verification.

With any engine, you need to make sure the lifters rotate and get the proper amount of oil for the rpm range. Valves can float at high rpm but with an off the shelf cam you would probably not have issues like that.
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Who's cobbling ? I searched and found a chart with recommended spring pressures. I've never used them or know anyone who has so I'm asking for firsthand knowledge from people who have used them.
 
Cobbling is putting together a verity of parts that in this case would not be from the same manufacturer like in an example, "All the. Above train parts from Comp Cams or Crane cams."

I know he didn't mean that in a ill manor. No insult was ment.

But onto the question. Try AndyF.
 
I'm not sure the schubecks require rotation? I'd run them but heard they were disco'd?
 
604B1duster said:
with pac 1903 springs in at 1.80.
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You already have your PAC springs, correct? You have chosen a Lunati cam, correct? You are asking about Schubeck lifters, correct? Sounds like 'cobbling' to me. Usually you choose the cam first, then use the springs and lifters recommended for the cam. What spring specs does the cam call for? Those springs will probably work but why rely on a guess? Call Lunati, see what thy say.

I thought the Schubeck lifters were disco'd too, but I guess not.

As I understand it, most use/used them because they can be used with different cams without issue. If you're messing with cams all the time, it keeps costs down (after the large initial investment) and makes installation easier. But, if you're building one motor and don't plan on swapping cams every week, just get the lifters that should be used with the cam. Schubeck lifters were really expensive too, no? Like $900? How many sets of lifters could you buy for over 900 bones?
 
rmchrgr said:
You already have your PAC springs, correct? You have chosen a Lunati cam, correct? You are asking about Schubeck lifters, correct? Sounds like 'cobbling' to me. Usually you choose the cam first, then use the springs and lifters recommended for the cam. What spring specs does the cam call for? Those springs will probably work but why rely on a guess? Call Lunati, see what thy say.

I thought the Schubeck lifters were disco'd too, but I guess not.

As I understand it, most use/used them because they can be used with different cams without issue. If you're messing with cams all the time, it keeps costs down (after the large initial investment) and makes installation easier. But, if you're building one motor and don't plan on swapping cams every week, just get the lifters that should be used with the cam. Schubeck lifters were really expensive too, no? Like $900? How many sets of lifters could you buy for over 900 bones?
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Funny thing is I asked for info from people who have used them, have you ? No, so go hassle someone else.
Even more funny is the motor going in a 66 dart with a RamCharger paint scheme
 
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rmchrgr said:
You already have your PAC springs, correct? You have chosen a Lunati cam, correct? You are asking about Schubeck lifters, correct? Sounds like 'cobbling' to me. Usually you choose the cam first, then use the springs and lifters recommended for the cam. What spring specs does the cam call for? Those springs will probably work but why rely on a guess? Call Lunati, see what thy say.

I thought the Schubeck lifters were disco'd too, but I guess not.

As I understand it, most use/used them because they can be used with different cams without issue. If you're messing with cams all the time, it keeps costs down (after the large initial investment) and makes installation easier. But, if you're building one motor and don't plan on swapping cams every week, just get the lifters that should be used with the cam. Schubeck lifters were really expensive too, no? Like $900? How many sets of lifters could you buy for over 900 bones?
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604B1duster said:
Anyone with firsthand info on use and spring rates with Schubeck ceramic solid flat tappets. May use them in a 408 with lunati 30200743. I have ported eddys with pac 1903 springs in at 1.80. Thanks
Click to expand...
hi, the schubecks were meant to be used on flat tappet cams in stock eliminator. that way you can run lots of spring pressure and rev engine way up. also, schubecks do not require break in, and can be swapped from cam to cam. you have to have strong pressures to keep lifter from bouncing on lobes. they will break!!! btw, the cam companies buy their lifters from Johnson lifters, so they are the same.
 
perfacar said:
hi, the schubecks were meant to be used on flat tappet cams in stock eliminator. that way you can run lots of spring pressure and rev engine way up. also, schubecks do not require break in, and can be swapped from cam to cam. you have to have strong pressures to keep lifter from bouncing on lobes. they will break!!! btw, the cam companies buy their lifters from Johnson lifters, so they are the same.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*


The man in the know has spoken. You would do well to read what he wrote and believe it.

IIRC the Schubecks are no more. The other brand is out there, but they are not a drop in and go deal.

Can't imagine the OP needs all the work of a composite lifter.
 
I, for one, seriously considered the schubecks for my magnum motor because they had that lifter version with a rounded bottom end. Compared to wiping a cam, The cost of the schubecks (last time they were available) would have been worth it to me, and I don't plan on swapping cams very often.
For a STOCK build, I doubt they are worth it.

I'm hoping to hear from some others with experience with them. Ehrenberg at mopar action is the first and only user I have heard directly.
 
yellow rose said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*


The man in the know has spoken. You would do well to read what he wrote and believe it.

IIRC the Schubecks are no more. The other brand is out there, but they are not a drop in and go deal.

Can't imagine the OP needs all the work of a composite lifter.
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Was accually looking for an easy way out of breaking in the cam, swapping springs back, and maybe messing up new bright shiny headers. Hot rodding is all about "Cobbling" stuff together, even on Long Island
 
Not sure why it's important for someone to answer who has used them.
yellow rose said:
Can't imagine the OP needs all the work of a composite lifter.
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That's kind of what I was getting at... does not seem necessary on something like this. But hey, what do I know?

I'll admit that I didn't know they required so much spring pressure to keep the lifter from bouncing, never heard of that myself and frankly the idea seems kind of extreme. Out of my low-buck realm for sure so yeah, I guess I really don't know. I doubt many people here on this forum besides Perfacar do either. Maybe go on Class Racer and see what you come up with.

What I do know is that for an off the shelf Lunati cam, 200lbs. open pressure is probably more than you need. Sorry to bother you with such trivial information, next time I will keep it to myself. Not sure if someone who has actually used them would tell you anything different.

There is no easy way out of breaking in a cam. Why didn't you ask your question in a different way? Spending $900 on a set of lifters is not the answer. I can speak from direct and recent experience on that very thing since I just had my motor on the dyno on April 15. It's a solid cam similar to the Lunati and I am using PAC springs. I removed the inner springs for the break in before I set up the valve train. Actually makes it a little easier to turn the motor over. I used the lube supplied with the cam for the break in and Joe Gibbs break in oil in the crank case. Break in went fine. After it was broken in, it took me and the dyno guy under 30 minutes to install the new springs to do the full power pulls. I timed the whole process since I was paying for the dyno time, was 27 minutes.

If you have the right tools and lubricants and are clean and organized, it's really nothing.
 
rmchrgr said:
Not sure why it's important for someone to answer who has used them.


That's kind of what I was getting at... does not seem necessary on something like this. But hey, what do I know?

I'll admit that I didn't know they required so much spring pressure to keep the lifter from bouncing, never heard of that myself and frankly the idea seems kind of extreme. Out of my low-buck realm for sure so yeah, I guess I really don't know. I doubt many people here on this forum besides Perfacar do either. Maybe go on Class Racer and see what you come up with.

What I do know is that for an off the shelf Lunati cam, 200lbs. open pressure is probably more than you need. Sorry to bother you with such trivial information, next time I will keep it to myself. Not sure if someone who has actually used them would tell you anything different.

There is no easy way out of breaking in a cam. Why didn't you ask your question in a different way? Spending $900 on a set of lifters is not the answer. I can speak from direct and recent experience on that very thing since I just had my motor on the dyno on April 15. It's a solid cam similar to the Lunati and I am using PAC springs. I removed the inner springs for the break in before I set up the valve train. Actually makes it a little easier to turn the motor over. I used the lube supplied with the cam for the break in and Joe Gibbs break in oil in the crank case. Break in went fine. After it was broken in, it took me and the dyno guy under 30 minutes to install the new springs to do the full power pulls. I timed the whole process since I was paying for the dyno time, was 27 minutes.

If you have the right tools and lubricants and are clean and organized, it's really nothing.
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Dude, I'm a machinist, and lead mechanic for a large municipality. I've been cobbling mopars together for 30yrs. Didn't pay
$900 for them.
 
604B1duster said:
Dude, I'm a machinist, and lead mechanic for a large municipality. I've been cobbling mopars together for 30yrs. Didn't pay
$900 for them.
Click to expand...


There is more to a composite lifter that just slapping them in. Go to classracer.com and go to stock tech and search that place. There are literally hundreds of posts on composite lifters. They are not a set it and forget it concern. They are high maintainence.

For the money you are spending you could buy a tight lash roller set up and be done.

I just broke in y own engine with 145 on the seat and about 330 over the nose. As long as you are competent in starting a fresh engine you should have no issue.

I start mine on 40 total, make sure both bowls have fuel in them and verify all electrical systems are good to go. My engines start in one or two turns.


That is THE issue starting flat lifter engines. Make them run.
 
604B1duster said:
Dude, I'm a machinist, and lead mechanic for a large municipality. I've been cobbling mopars together for 30yrs. Didn't pay
$900 for them.
Click to expand...

OK. You seem to know more than me. I was a Chrysler dealer tech myself and have been wrenching on my own cars for 20 years. Never dealt with composite lifters and/or solid lift cams on the job but I can lap valves with the best of 'em. Hope your experience translates well.
 
rmchrgr said:
OK. You seem to know more than me. I was a Chrysler dealer tech myself and have been wrenching on my own cars for 20 years. Never dealt with composite lifters and/or solid lift cams on the job but I can lap valves with the best of 'em. Hope your experience translates well.
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hi, ok, first off, if you use schubeck lifters, they will seat without worrying about flat lobes. if you replace them with regular lifters, then you will have to break in the new lifters. in breaking in a cam, it's the lifters that develop a wear pattern. they are the weak link in a motor. the schubecks require no break in time. best to use outer springs to seat the cam and lifters. If you think about it, schubecks can be used on any cam. that proves the lifter is the problem in break in. just food for thought.
 
Cam you even get Schbecks any more. Thought he went broke. Then, IIRC, another company produced them SM, again IIRC.

A big deal I remember is knocking the ceramic puck off the bottom. They don't like valve float.

I looked into them years ago, but I ran a roller instead .
 
I got you all beat....I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night...
 
you guys are rough, I'm going to try AndyF and Ehrenberg. Thanks
 
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