borgeson Manual swap.

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medion

medion

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Hi everybody.
I have a '67 Dart Gt with a 318 replacing the original Slant6. It has a manual steering and i find it uncomfortable, too heavy. My mechanic told me the steering was in good condition. Would I benefit from replacing it with a manual Borgeson box or would it be a waste of money ?
Any advice is wecome.
Thanks.
 
First, find out what you have. Your manual box could have anywhere from 16:1 to a 24:1 steering ratio. If you have a 16:1 box, for example, you could "lighten it up" by a switch to 20 or 24:1(standard) gears, all of which are available from vendors like Firm Feel and such. Or just swap the whole box- 24:1 is widely available, and your 16 or 20:1 box (if that's what you have) is a desirable piece on the market.
 
medion said:
It has a manual steering and i find it uncomfortable, too heavy
Click to expand...
Define "uncomfortable, too heavy"

If you mean it is too hard to steer, any manual box will be the same or worse.

If your current steering is OEM it most likely is 24 to 1 (about 5 or 5.5 turns lock to lock)

Any box with 20 to 1 or 16 to 1 etc will just make it harder to turn.


If your intent is to make it easier to turn then power steering is the only practical way to go.

Or get to the gym and work out.

Personally I have a 67 Dart GT, 273 v8 with manual steering and manual brakes, I do not find it an issue to drive at all. I can (just barely, but I can) palm steer into and out of a parking space.

My dad always said " The parts you don't add, don't cause you no trouble"

You do know how to hand over hand steer?

Bottom line answer waste of money
 
Thank you for your replies.
I think I have the 24 :1 since I'm pretty shure it's the original steering box. (I'm in Europe and swaping parts is more complex here, you don't find the spares as easily.)
By "unconfortable" I certainly mean too much effort on the steering wheel. Not a palm steering experience for sure !
You tell me the only solution would be to go PS, it's too complicated and I've read many posts describing problems with the pressure, the pump, the feeling etc ... Scary solution as far as I'm concerned. I'm afraid I'll have to stick with my OEM box.
One thing more thing ... If I lift my front wheels off the ground, I should have very little resistance while steering. If I have it would mean there's an issue with the steering box right ?
 
medion said:
Thank you for your replies.
I think I have the 24 :1 since I'm pretty shure it's the original steering box. (I'm in Europe and swaping parts is more complex here, you don't find the spares as easily.)
By "unconfortable" I certainly mean too much effort on the steering wheel. Not a palm steering experience for sure !
You tell me the only solution would be to go PS, it's too complicated and I've read many posts describing problems with the pressure, the pump, the feeling etc ... Scary solution as far as I'm concerned. I'm afraid I'll have to stick with my OEM box.
One thing more thing ... If I lift my front wheels off the ground, I should have very little resistance while steering. If I have it would mean there's an issue with the steering box right ?
Click to expand...

No to what you have read on swapping to Power. I swapped to Power steering and its not complicated, you just need the correct parts. I love my Firm Feel III box and low pressure Saginaw pump. Faster ratio than manual and heavy, like a manual rack in a very light car. Beings how your in the Europe, the parts to do so my be difficult to find and costly.
 
First confirm you have a 24:1 box, as already mentioned it should be ~5.5 full revolutions from steering lock to steering lock. If it’s only 3.5 full revolutions lock to lock it’s 16:1 and would explain why it feels heavier.

When is this problem occurring? When sitting still or while driving? Remember that you’re only supposed to be turning the steering wheel while you’re moving/rolling. New cars with a power rack let you “dry steer” pretty easily, but manual steering will not and it’s not a problem, it’s just different. If this is only a problem when you’re stopped or going less than 10mph, it’s probably just normal manual steering. If you can’t turn easily while traveling at speed that’s a different story.

The steering wheel should be very easy to turn with the front wheels off the ground. If it’s not there’s a possibility that there’s an internal issue with the steering box or possibly some part of the steering linkages (pitman, idler arm, tie rod ends etc).

Do you know your current alignment settings? The steering effort is effected by your alignment. This isn’t likely to cause massive effort to be required, but it does make a difference.
 
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72bluNblu said:
First confirm you have a 24:1 box, as already mentioned it should be ~5.5 full revolutions from steering lock to steering lock. If it’s only 3.5 full revolutions lock to lock it’s 16:1 and would explain why it feels heavier.

When is this problem occurring? When sitting still or while driving? Remember that you’re only supposed to be turning the steering wheel while you’re moving/rolling. New cars with a power rack let you “dry steer” pretty easily, but manual steering will not and it’s not a problem, it’s just different. If this is only a problem when you’re stopped or going less than 10mph, it’s probably just normal manual steering. If you can’t turn easily while traveling at speed that’s a different story.

The steering wheel should be very easy to turn with the front wheels off the ground. If it’s not there’s a possibility that there’s an internal issue with the steering box or possibly some part of the steering linkages (pitman, idler arm, tie rod ends etc).

Do you know your current alignment settings? The steering effort is effected by your alignment. This isn’t likely to cause massive effort to be required, but it does make a difference.
Click to expand...
 
It occurs while driving. I've just had the alignment setting made. I think it made the steering a little more "confortable" but it's not obvious. I'll try the off the ground test and see what it reveals. Thanks for your help. I appreciate.
 
medion said:
Hi everybody.
I have a '67 Dart Gt with a 318 replacing the original Slant6. It has a manual steering and i find it uncomfortable, too heavy. My mechanic told me the steering was in good condition. Would I benefit from replacing it with a manual Borgeson box or would it be a waste of money ?
Any advice is wecome.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Do you have the original style steering wheel? Some aftermarket wheels are smaller in diameter an can increase the manual steering effort.
 
yes, it's the original steering wheel.
Dana, I 'll check this ...
Thanks !
 
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