Build me a Small block

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72swgnr

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Ok guys/gals I'm going to be building a small block for the 65 dart street/strip pumpgas car. I want this to be a budget build but also make around 500 horse. I will be getting a set of Edelbrock heads this I know. My question is what other parts and pieces would you guys recomend as far as pistons/rods/intake/cam etc. to reach my goal. Also would it just be cheaper in the long run to buy a stroker kit from speedomotive? tips/thoughts/ideas?
 
budget and 500hp dont go well together. whats your idea of budget ? A stroker is the way to go.
 
Ok let me change this a little. What kind of power would a 360 with Edelbrock heads 11.2-1ish compression a good intake and a decent cam that is liveable on the street and headers make. Does anyone on here have a build somewhat simmular and know the HP/TQ output?

This is what i consider a budget build (other than the heads)
 
I would say a fresh 360 not a stroked 360 with eddy heads the compression you are talking about and a streetable cam would be in the 480+ hp range.

Just a guess I havent built that combo as of yet. My buddy has a 340 non stroked with worked over X heads and he is at 468hp 480Tq.
 
Fully port the Edelbrock heads and get a roller cam of a min. of 260 degress of duration @ .050 with a single plane intake and a 800 cfm carb, headers would be a min. of 1-3/4 with 3 inch exhaust.

This will be close to what you want and will need a 4,000 converter at a min. and 4.56 gears to work along with everything properly.

IF this is not your idea of a street car, perhaps 500 HP is not what your really after.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Fully port the Edelbrock heads and get a roller cam of a min. of 260 degress of duration @ .050 with a single plane intake and a 800 cfm carb, headers would be a min. of 1-3/4 with 3 inch exhaust.

This will be close to what you want and will need a 4,000 converter at a min. and 4.56 gears to work along with everything properly.

IF this is not your idea of a street car, perhaps 500 HP is not what your really after.
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Sounds like a street /strip car to me:toothy10: besides I have my Hemi ram for my daily driving thrill. My old man is running a 528 hemi with wieand dual-4 tunnel ram and an 8" converter and 4.56 spool on the street. Thanks for the Info guys
 
Here's mine, it makes a little over 500:

360 block, Eagle 4 inch steel crank (410 ci), Scat I-beams, Diamond pistons, Total seal rings, 10.8:1 compression,
ARP main/head studs, Edelbrock heads with stage 2 port from RyanJ @ Shady Dell (flow 293 @ 0.600),
Comp Pro Magnum Rockers, Comp solid roller XR286R 248/254 @ 0.05 and 0.576/0.582 lift,
Air-Gap, Proform 750 dp, Headman 1 ¾ primary headers, 727 w/ PTC 8 in converter that flashes to 5000 rpm,
4.10 gears, Moser 35 spline axels, spool, Hoosier 28x 11.5 QTP, 3250 lbs with driver

Drives well on the street too!
 
WWW.MRLPERFORMANCE.COM, he's the guy who had a 500hp 318 in Mopar Muscle last year. Get a hold of Mike and he can build you one or get you the info to build a killer 500hp small block.
 
Do you have $6500? That's a budget 500hp 360. Also, that's a very light car. 100 less hp would move the car into the 12s easy and be about $1500 less.
 
moper said:
Do you have $6500? That's a budget 500hp 360. Also, that's a very light car. 100 less hp would move the car into the 12s easy and be about $1500 less.
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$1700 for a stroker kit
$500 for intake and cam etc (non roller)
$1500 for edelbrock heads
$500 for machine work
$1000 for headers, harmonic ballancer and other MISC stuff
I'm looking at roughly 5k and I know you can get some deals out there on some of the parts that I would need. If i shopped around I bet it could be done for $4500...Keep in mind I dont need to pay an engine builder to build it either. I also do not need a machinist to magnaflux or thickness test anything since Im able to do that myself
 
moper said:
Do you have $6500? That's a budget 500hp 360. Also, that's a very light car. 100 less hp would move the car into the 12s easy and be about $1500 less.
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I agree.
My 66 runs 12's at 5800 feet with a stock stroke 360 with OOTB eddy heads and a solid cam. 1-5/8 Dougs, 904 and 4.30 gears. Your 65 is light enough where 400 horse should move it real well.
 
66dartman said:
I agree.
My 66 runs 12's at 5800 feet with a stock stroke 360 with OOTB eddy heads and a solid cam. 1-5/8 Dougs, 904 and 4.30 gears. Your 65 is light enough where 400 horse should move it real well.
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What kind of compression are you running and intake?
 
$1700 for a stroker kit
I'm assuming that comes balanced with breaings and rings, cast crank, I beam SIR type rods and cast crank.

$500 for intake and cam etc (non roller)
Not quite... $280 for and Air gap or M1 that will make the power you need plus the cam and lifter kit which runs close to $300 without shipping. And modern grinds that you need to make the power need springs because the RPMs dont come with ones that will work $120. And if you dont own one, you'll need an on the car spring compressor to swap in the inners after you break in the non roller cam $50. Add $750

$1500 for edelbrock heads
Plus the porting (min of $500 for a local guy... if you want real porting, double that figure) plus the checking and correcting that is done because Edelbrock's workmanship sucks. You need heads that flow 270cfm to make 500 real hp in a street engine. Plus rockers and shafts, and pushrods $520. Add $1020

$500 for machine work
Please tell me this is a figure you came up with... $500 is enough to bore and hone.. never mind using a torque plate. The mains should be studded and that means align honing, then there's the oiling mods for drainback and oversizing the main feeds, then there's square decking for the right piston installed height. You do know factory blocks are always taller than blueprint spec, correct? Then there's installing cam bearings. If you get out under $1500 count your blessings. Also, I'm assuming your kit is ordered balaced for that figure. I would pay a shop to do it right, but that's me.(remember to add parts costs: main studs, block hardware, cam bearings = $175) Add $1375

$1000 for headers, harmonic ballancer and other MISC stuff
You need headers. There are no cheap underchassis for this car that will support 500hp. The TTis are $800. Balancer- SFI approved $180. Gasket set $60. Fel Pro Performance head gaskets for the aluminum heads $200. Distributor $140. Oil pump and drive $120. Timing set $80. Tstat, carb, plugs, wires, module/control box= $600-$750 depending on box... Total - $2180 on the low side w/o shipping or tax.
Add $2180

I'm looking at roughly 5k and I know you can get some deals out there on some of the parts that I would need. If i shopped around I bet it could be done for $4500...Keep in mind I dont need to pay an engine builder to build it either. I also do not need a machinist to magnaflux or thickness test anything since Im able to do that myself[/QUOTE]

Total of stuff possibly not thought about: $5325 plus your budget of $5000. Now you can start looking for deals. I still think you'll be spending $6500. 500 real hp pump gas street engine works out to about $17/hp for something good that is in the car running and that will live but you have the block and access to (hopefully good) machine work. I've built a few although none this year. I would suggest you take a very close look at what makes a complete running engine. Because things like oil and filters, fuel system parts, and cooling system stuff and a real torque convertor will all cost too. I'm not trying to bust you. Just broaden your horizons a little. A performance built 360 doesnt need the big carbs or expensive headers. With some snooping, you could do a really nice 400hp 360 that will be in the car running for around $5K and run as fast as I'm guessing that 528 Hemi does...
 
62v200 said:
WWW.MRLPERFORMANCE.COM, he's the guy who had a 500hp 318 in Mopar Muscle last year. Get a hold of Mike and he can build you one or get you the info to build a killer 500hp small block.
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That engine dyno'd at 380 - 385 I think. He was no where near 500 and finished dead last save the engine failure from another shop.
 
Just a side point. Stuff has gotten expensive and to illustrate: I intended to build a 375 horse 318 to play with on the cheap. Yeah right, I am stalled at 2k
and I haven't even bought the cam and lifters. Machine work was $600 and misc parts are going to cost me another $3-500. I wish we could build these things cheap like we used to but performance stuff has not suffered in the economy. But you should be very happy with a 360 built right in that car and if you can put 320 to the tires you"ll be knockin on the 12's which ain't bad.
 
72, you have a PM. I still think in terms of reality, you're shooting for the moon when you only need to shoot accross the street to get what you want.
 
moper said:
I still think in terms of reality, you're shooting for the moon when you only need to shoot accross the street to get what you want.
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72swgnr, I'd be payin atten. to what he has to say right about now.
 
rumblefish360 said:
That engine dyno'd at 380 - 385 I think. He was no where near 500 and finished dead last save the engine failure from another shop.
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That was the 318.....Mike has built some potent 360's and 408 Strokers that have pushed 500hp.................just saying......the guy was looking so I thought I'd offer some info.
 
For $6500 bucks you can buy a crate engine with a 30month/50,000 mile warranty that puts out 455HP/510TQ ...(or at least is supposed to put out those numbers) I respect the replys that I have gotten but im still skeptical that it will cost that much for 500hp if you do your homework and find some good deals on parts. But you guys have obviously been there done that many times so I wont argue anymore :)
 
Well I just recieved a email back from RyanJ and I was told building a 500 horse 360 based 408 for 5K is fairly simple and reliable as he built one for his daily driver. The cam only had .525" lift as well.
 
72swgnr said:
Well I just recieved a email back from RyanJ and I was told building a 500 horse 360 based 408 for 5K is fairly simple and reliable as he built one for his daily driver. The cam only had .525" lift as well.
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Well,if making 500 peak horsepower is your goal,it's easily done with a 408. But you have to remember that what makes power is the heads,and OVERALL h.p and tq under the curve are far more important than peak #s.

I think a VERY torqeuy 408 with an extremely fat powerband could be built for bargain basement beans by using EQ heads.
 
Remember Ryan doesnt have to pay for head porting or assembly and probably know a lot of tricks that you or I will pay big bucks for.
 
AdamR said:
Remember Ryan doesnt have to pay for head porting or assembly and probably know a lot of tricks that you or I will pay big bucks for.
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I'm not sure why there are so many naysayers here. The only thing I would have to pay for would be machining/balancing and head porting. Assembly would be done by myself and my father who has been building mopar engines for 35ish years and knows a trick or two himself. I do my own magnaflux and thickness readings so that saves me a few hundred bucks right there. Ryans build was VERY simple just a hyd flat tappet off the shelf cam with about .525" of lift and 9.5-1 compression. RPM airgap intake and some cheap roller rockers. Keep in mind this was for his daily driver so he was also looking for reliability when he built this. it ran 113mph in a 3550 lb. car with 3.55 gears.
 
rumblefish360 said:
That engine dyno'd at 380 - 385 I think. He was no where near 500 and finished dead last save the engine failure from another shop.
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What does that mean " save the engine failure for another shop"?
I know this motor. As I followed it from day one. And we all know that things happen at those contest. Iirc the other contestants also said that the dyno was f'd up. And after having them re dyno'd, it proved the machine was off by 80- to 100 hp!
I know Mike, and I think he is a he'll of an engine builder. I think 62 was just trying to help someone or offer info to someone who asked.
 
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