Build me an Alky 440

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THEWHITEZOMBIE

THEWHITEZOMBIE

Mopars an Heavy Metal
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build me a alky 440 thats gonna put my dart in the 10's,id like to get as much info on it as possible so hook it up guys i saw two darts at sacramento this past weekend both on alky an haulin *** all day deep into the 10's an i fell in love an want to know more!fill me in on whats needed an all that both of the cars had hilborn injection an that just looked sick *** heck an id like to know more about that as well.Thanks yall
MIKEY
 
A 440 should be able to get into the 10's without alcohol or something is very wrong. As for the 440 you will need at least 10.0:1 compression with a carb and 11.5:1 to 12.5:1 with injection as the amount of fuel that the injection shoots in will need all the help that it can get to burn that amount of fuel. The camshafts are very different also to make the engine perform and they vary from carburated to injection. Because of the fact that alcohol weigh's 1 lbs more than gas per gal. or there about's it will take a larger jet or smaller pill to compensate for the heavier fuel as it moves slower, than the lighter weight fuel. But this is the same with race gas as the higher the octane the slower it burns and moves, thus the reason for higher volume pumps and larger fuel lines. Also if injected the fuel tank will have to be mounted in the front of the vehicle and a minimum fuel line of #12 to feed the belt driven pump with 2 returns. The simplest injection system is the ron's injection, the hardest is the enderle or the hilborn systems. As for the camshaft you will need to have the centerline moved back to 112 or more up to 116 you can use a 4* advance as long as the centerline is where it should be and this will help the cylinder pressure out greatly. In my alcohol engines I generally like to have 180 - 210 psi in the cylinders. A flat top piston works the best with a good set of cylinder heads and alcohol likes heat so either iron or a set of thick decked aluminum heads are best. The rods and crank and pistons are the generally used type's and it's the preference of the builder as what he/she prefers. I have used cast cranks and stock rods and cast pistons in my engine without any problems, and this is why I say that it's up the end user to make his or her decision. I just wanted to get out as cheap as I could and make it work, alcohol is easier on engine parts than gas is so this helps out on the parts selction. This is what I run in one of my alcohol engines

400 block .020
pistons are .017 out of the deck
block is square decked
comp cams 280H
stock rods and crank
balanced to +/- 0
452 heads w/2.08/1.74 valves
heads gasket matched and bowl blended
heads flow 318 int./ 242 Exh.
2" hedders hooker's fenderwell's
M-1 Intake without modifications
1.6 roller rockers
chrome moly pushrods
hardened shafts
750 alcohol carb with 103 jet size
9475 list # carb holley

Then the rest is in machining and where the clearence tolerence is set. This engine is a copy of a 383HP roadrunner engine and a alcohol carb. The engine makes 535 HP and 507 ft. lbs. of torque. I have run a 7.07 @ 102 1/8 mi. with this engine in a 2865 lbs car, the engine can be built for $4,500.00 or less depending on what the end user uses for parts.
So a 440 should be able to easily get in the 10's as the stroke is .370 more, we have a few around here that run in the mid 9's so it isn't real hard to do.
 
Bobby, what are the advantages of running alcohol. Some people say they gain 2-3 tenths in the quarter others say they dont gain anything it just make the engine more responsive and makes them more consistent. What about corrosion in the fuel system? It seems like it would be a little cheaper to run alcohol than 112 -116 octane race fuel even though its suppose to take about twice as much alcohol as it does race fuel.
 
Andy,
The difference is in the camshaft as to the amount of gain seen, as for the fuel corrosion there are a couple of different types of fuel additives out there but I use the nitro fuel additive in my engines. As for the amount of fuel burned, it's only twice as much when injected and only half again as much carburated, or this is all my engines use. Alot has to do with the track and air conditions as to how much fuel is needed for the engine to run properly.

oldvart,
I had been moving into a new house and setting up a new 36X48 shop on just over 2 acres of land.
Then my Mother passed on the 7th of October so this didn't help any, and now I'm just getting back to going again.
 
Well it's good to see you back. My condolences on your Mom's passing.

You should have lots of room in the new shop on the acreage, or at least that's what I thought when I bought my 4 acres about 20 years ago. The 22 x 40 shop is WAY too small, and if it wasn't for cutting the grass in the summer, I'd like an additional 4 acres. :)

Once you get settled in I'll PM you about a set of heads for my 360 build. I'm in no rush since I'm still doing body work, probably for the next 2 years. :)

Sorry Mike - I'm walking all over your thread.
 
no prob man,so whats the hardest part about the hilborne,enderle whats involed with them?an can u fill me in more on the ron's injection?i may not build one up now but id sure like to know about it an be able to bull crud with the guys about it at the drags

MIKEY
 
Mike,
The hardest thing about the hilborn and the enderle injection is the adjustment of the barrel valve and the nozzels in the ports to get the correct amount of fuel to each cylinder, depending on which type of injector that is being used. What I mean is if it's a stack injector or a hat injector, stack's have to be closer tuned as you have one throttle blade per port where as the hat has all the air comming from one spot and then mixed by the intake manifold. And the adjustments aren't as fine tuned. Then with the Ron's injection he uses a nozzle something like a pro shot fogger NOS system and the nozzels are metered to flow the same where as the Hilborn and the Enderle aren't and you would need a fuel flow bench to get it right. With the Hilborn and Enderle injection systems the nozzels will vary as to the amount of flow that go's through them even if they are the same # like 37's or 40's these #'s are just for reference and not for how much they flow. Most blown and injected engines have larger # nozzels in the front and smaller ones in the rear as the fuel is harder to keep in the front because of the G forces so they are generally richer than the rear. But you will learn this as you mess with it more.
The Rons is simpler as with his you just plum the lines and use his nozzels and set the barrel valve and your done, his nozzels are flowed to a certian flow then mated with the injector for the engine used, weather it would be a small block or big block, he takes alot of the guess work out of the equation and is more suited for bracket racing and not for all out performance, I've seen some of his stuff run as fast as 4.70's in the 1/8 @ 150 + mph when tuned right. After that you would need a more serious set up like the Hilborn or the Enderle as Rons just doesn't have the air flow capabilities that the others do.
 
You can have a rear fuel cell with an injected car. A Spint car is an example of a car that uses a rear mounted cell. The reason it works is because the fuel is higher than the pump (and the car is really short) but it can me done. For a rear cell application you can use a high volume electric pump feeding a tank near or in front of the belt driven pump. This tank is easy to make, I have built them before with a box made of steel or aluminum then I mounted two Holley center pivot float bowls (with alcohol needle & seats) to it to stop the filling of the tank when it was full. The belt driven pump then feeds off of this tank, when the fuel level drops the electric pump starts feeding the tank again. This way you can have the fuel capacity of a rear mounted cell.

Something else to consider if you use the stack style injection. The injectors can dribble bad when the car is not running and there is residual pressure in the lines. This can load a cylinder with fuel then if you crank it over it can hydra lock on you (this messes up stuff). This is why you see guys rotating motors backwards "backing then down" before started to clear the cylinders of fuel in the cylinders. We do it on our Sprint cars everytime just to be sure.
 
yep your right I forgot about the sprint car stuff, thanks for giving my memory a refresher.
 
right on guys thanks for the info,id love to build one some day but just needed a heads up on whats invloved!
 
Well, I havent built one...lol. But, the shop has. More than a few, turbo'd and roots blown versions. The compression should be higher, in the neighborhood of 12.5:1+ for naturally aspirated. Things like cooling system, ignition curves, fuel system, end gaps, etc. all need to be adjusted for use with alcohol. It is much more detonation resistant. But, it takes more cylinder pressure to make it work, and roughly 150% of the delivery volume as gasoline. At least that's how I understand it. The dragster has a single methanol-only fuel system, the Studebaker (very modified GM stovebolt 6) runs Ron's injection, fed by a gasoline system, and an alcohol system. But BJR's right, a 440 in an A body doesnt need more than pump fuel to run low tens in this day and age.
 
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