cam degreeing kit?

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mr.318

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will the summit kit 66787 work on a smallblock ? i was told i could get the stuff cheaper, by buying from haborfreight but couldn't find everything there, i' read 3 differnt ways to do it, whats the best way to degee a cam with engine in car ?
 
You need 1 degree wheel, thats around $20, a wire for the pointer-steal a coat hanger, a dial gauge and a magnetic stand-if you get a made in china brand it be dirt cheap and a piston stop-if the heads are on when you do it.

As for how, well I got how to find TDC down pat but then I get lost without a book.
 
FWIW I have the summit kit and am happy with it,used it a bunch,only thing I had to add was a piston stop for the block,I like to degree the cam with the heads off.Also there are a couple of ways to degree a cam,there are many places to get the instructions but comp cams are very easy to understand if your a first timer and they used to be available on their site.
 
I also have the Summit kit and like it. The only other things needed is a piston stop for when the heads are off and a wire pointer made from an old coat hanger and a couple bolts for mounting the hanger and dial indicator if needed. There are 2 different ways to degree in a cam and some cams (asymmetric design) can only be degreed in by the numbers because they are ground to let the valve down slower than it goes up. If your cam isn't asymmetrical it's easier to degree them in. Won't get into why. Too long to describe. All the cams that I've degreed in said on the cam card if they were asymmetrical.

The summit kit also came with very easy to read instructions on how to degree them in both ways. Also a nice carrying case so you don't get things beat up and keep all the little extra's in.

Oh yeah. Another very handy item you don't have to have but makes measurements more accurate is a solid lifter. If you don't have a solid you can take the guts out of a hydraulic and find a rod that fits in it tight so you have something solid to measure off of. Hydraulic lifters can throw off the measurement by compressing. Even a few thousands is enough to give a false reading.

BTW: A cam degree kit is a cam degree kit. One size fits all. All you have to do is have the cam card of what your degreeing in. I've used mine on small block mopars and small and big block chevy's. They'll work for any.
 
thanks for the info. my cam is a comp xe262h, which i put in replaceing my crane energizer, i also swaped on a weiand intake replacing a stock 340 intake,i lost like 8mph in the 1/8 i know 2 many swaps at onece, i lost bottom end it starts pulling right at the line, so i thought i'd try degreeing the cam, i have the compcam,instructions,but don't understand where the pointer goes? how you make one? and i was told i could just go from the top of the lifter? if i advance the cam without degreeing it i'd be defeating the purpose right?
 
What's the specs on the energizer? I'll look online for a card.

The stock 340 square bore and TQ intakes are damn good. Very underrated. If you put a Weiand open plane intake on a 318, that's what I'm guessing, your low end disappeared. What intake is that that you installed?

IMHO, That cam change wouldn't have made a big change, they are all in the 216-228 @ .050 range with similar lifts ranges. Not a big step in any direction. If you went from the smaller energizer, the 262h is slightly more aggressive.
 
the weiand intake is a dualplane, it has tall runners i'll get the #'s off it. the energizer specs. are 216-216-454-454 the comps not that much bigger,and i thought the dualpattern would help, i'm trying to buy a ld340 intake now but if i don't get it i'll be putting the 340 back on, i'm gasket matching porting it now, it was pretty close
 
Wow 8 mph in the 1/8th is a ton to loose!! Have you done a spark plug read to see how your mixture is burning? Also double check the timing. Is your dist. stock or modified? You could probably use a little more initial timing with somewhat faster advance than stock since you have a larger cam.

That intake may not work the best if it has 340/360 size runners unless your heads have been changed to match. Does yours still have the stock 318 heads on it?
 
no i got a zerodecked 318 with kb167's 360 heads with 202-168 vavles, tried the timing at track runs best at 36 set at 2600 rpm, running a moparperformance dist, tried the timing all the way up to 42 no ping but less mph, plugs are tannish color,
 
mr.318 said:
no i got a zerodecked 318 with kb167's 360 heads with 202-168 vavles, tried the timing at track runs best at 36 set at 2600 rpm, running a moparperformance dist, tried the timing all the way up to 42 no ping but less mph, plugs are tannish color,
Click to expand...

Well it sounds like your doing things right. Strange that it lost that much power. Wish I knew more to tell you to check.
 
You do need to rejet the carb after a cam swap.

As for cams with longer exhaust timing, I understand thats only needed if you are using factory exhaust manifolds or that laughing gas or supercharging. Your motor has like a built in EGR now.

But 8 mph is a lot.

Say, did you check if the throttle is opening all the way now with the new intake?
 
yea anything ya think might help,the # on the intake is 7507,i bought it from member here, the 600 edl, has the stock jets 100, should i go up asize ? i have a jet and rod kit, should i just put thr 340 intake back when i degree the cam ?
 
here's my before and after times. 60 ft 1881 8.754 @ 77.99 mph, with wheelspin. After 60 ft. 2.396 10.20 @ 68.60 mph no wheelspin. That hurt
 
Hows it running? Is it as smooth as before. Does it surge at part throttle or full.

Seems like I said, your throttle not opening all the way or a plug wire off. Maybe your secondarys are binding.

I mean thats a big difference to just blame a cam and intake swap on. Hard to believe if you put another Crane cam in it and your old intake it pick up 8 mph. There must be another reason.

As for cam timing, did you know the cranking compression before you did the swap? If so see what it is now, if its about the same the cam is timed good enough and thats not the reason.
 
dodgefreak i had checked the throttle when i put the intake on, But double checked it must have sliped, I'm missing about an 7/8's of throttle, that aren't to help, i'll try to fix it tomorrow i have a homemade throttle bracket, yea it sounds good not skipping it has 175 lbs of compression cept for # 6 it's like 173 i figure that should be okay thanks
 
You can take the gas pedal out and heat it up and bend it. Its not easy, you need a vise and a long rod to slip over the rod.

Holleys are worst, they take longer to open.

I think your cam is timed ok. By degree it you might find 1 or 2 tenths not no 2 seconds and 8 mph.

I think its in the carb. Check if the secondarys are free, if you over tighten the carb, I hear the throttle can bind up and not open. Maybe that carb needs the throttle 100% open. I like holley DP carbs.

I think you go faster with a holley BTW
 
yea i'll check it, i'm thinking i can jus adjust the cable, like i say i got a bracket that i made
 
dodge freak said:
As for cams with longer exhaust timing, I understand thats only needed if you are using factory exhaust manifolds or that laughing gas or supercharging. Your motor has like a built in EGR now.
Click to expand...

I can't agree with this. The stock exhaust port on flow on LA heads is weak compared to the intake port so more exhaust duration and/or lift will help balance things out. We flowed my heads before and after I ported them. Before porting the intake flow was 215 and the exhaust flow was 146. That's 68% exh flow. After porting the intake flow is 248 and the exh. flow is 170. That's 68.5% exh flow. Ideally you want it near 75% so this is why the split cams work better. Even when your running headers. I went from a straight grind in mine to one that's similiar in size on the intake but has more exh. duration and lift and it ran allot better. I can't say exactly how much but the seat of the pants tells me it's probably close to 1/2 second.

Their are several different cam grinds out there. With some the split is minimal and others like Comp cams made for engines with stock manifolds have a huge split.

All other posts are right on. Good call on the throttle not opening. Sometimes the little things are the most elusive.
 
More exhaust duration does help peek H.P. and let the motor has more power after its tuned RPM range. But most of the time low and mid range power will be lower. The motor may get less MPG too.

The intake manifold needs to be flowed with the head to see the ratio difference from intake to exhaust.

Best is to try both and see what happens. Heres a quote I copied from speedtalk...


I've had good luck with some street engines using single pattern cams. These are usually 550 hp type pump gas motors with full exhaust. What I've found in those applications is that extra exhaust duration just causes more problems than it solves. My guess is the back pressure from the exhaust system causes more problems on the bottom end of the torque curve than the extra duration solves on the top end.

I did some dyno testing a few years back and the best cam was a 40 year old single pattern design from Mopar Performance. It worked better than the whole box full of "new" cam designs that Comp sent me. All of the Comp designs were split pattern cams but none worked better than that old school Mopar cam.
_________________
Andy Finkbeiner
AR Engineering
 
dodge freak said:
More exhaust duration does help peek H.P. and let the motor has more power after its tuned RPM range. But most of the time low and mid range power will be lower. The motor may get less MPG too.

The intake manifold needs to be flowed with the head to see the ratio difference from intake to exhaust.

Best is to try both and see what happens. Heres a quote I copied from speedtalk...


I've had good luck with some street engines using single pattern cams. These are usually 550 hp type pump gas motors with full exhaust. What I've found in those applications is that extra exhaust duration just causes more problems than it solves. My guess is the back pressure from the exhaust system causes more problems on the bottom end of the torque curve than the extra duration solves on the top end.

I did some dyno testing a few years back and the best cam was a 40 year old single pattern design from Mopar Performance. It worked better than the whole box full of "new" cam designs that Comp sent me. All of the Comp designs were split pattern cams but none worked better than that old school Mopar cam.
_________________
Andy Finkbeiner
AR Engineering
Click to expand...

There are allot of differing opinions on this subject. I have read several that show where dual pattern cams work better and only a few that tout the single pattern cams. You are right about a single pattern usually has more low end torque. When your running a 3,000 plus stall converter though low end isn't as much problem.

The guy that I took my heads to when I got them done porting flowed them and he has a $2000 computer program that is supposed to be a "know all" program. Not your everyday Desktop Dyno program. He also believed a dual pattern would help mine from the info on his program. I realize a computer program is only as good as the one who wrote it and the user but he has also had a considerable ammount of experience building race engines and tuning them on a dyno. He showed me dyno print outs of a few different small blocks that make 600-800 hp.

When I first put my 360 together I put a straight grind Wolverine cam in with 224 @.050 and it was'nt all that hot. Sluggish out of the hole. Top end was ok but not as good as the next 2 cams but then again they are larger. Then I put a Comp xe274 in it. It ran much stronger throught the whole range but I had problems with lifters twice. They worked fine when I put them in but after awhile would start making noise on startup then finally got to where they clattered all the time. BTW: My oil pressure was 55-60 lbs. I read where comp had allot of lifter problems for awhile so I switched to a Lunati 60404 which has a much larger split in duration and lift than the comp but the intake is similiar size. The Lunati made alot more power down low but didn't seem to have any more top end. It also gets 2-3 mpg better even though it has slightly less vacuum. Go figure.

I never dyno'd my results. Just went by seat of the pants feel and how I had trouble getting it to hook up with the Lunati compared to the Comp and Wolverine.

Again these were just my results with only a butt dyno. So to sum it up this is just MHO

I don't by any means claim to be a engine guru. I feel my head flow tech is though after talking with him and seeing his results.

Have a good day.:-D
 
Best to try a few different grinds and see whats best for your combo. True with a 3000 stall converter most motors might be best with a dual duration cam. Maybe that Lunati cam has a wider C/L. All of comps are 110 which gives them a mean sounding idle but not always the best power and mileage.
 
The Lunati is the same 110 c/l. Also installed at 106 just like the comp. I really didn't expect it to act like it does. It surprised me especially when it got better fuel mileage.
 
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