Car shuts off when put in drive

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Ghostsoldier

Ghostsoldier

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Guys,
I was going to monkey around with the jets and metering rods on my 600cfm Edelbrock 1406 (as I stated in another post that I started here), but before I do that, right now I have a new problem that's severely affecting the use of the car (for what it's worth, I have an electric pump and a regulator (set at 4.5 lbs psi, an automatic trans, and it's a small block).

In a nutshell, when you crank the car, it runs and idles perfectly fine....BUT, when you put it into gear (reverse or drive), it stutters for a moment and then dies completely. If I 'nurse' it at a stop (brake and gas pedal at the same time), or put it in neutral, it stays running....and to keep it running, I have to feather the gas pedal and drop it in drive simultaneously, and it lurches into life, stumbles a bit (hence my question earlier about the metering rods), and then when it's on the open road, it runs seems to run fine.

Also, before it became this severe, I had noticed earlier when sitting at a stoplight that the carb would tend to "load up", i.e., start missing idle a little each time, hitching intermittently, until it would finally wind down and shut the car off if the light didn't turn green.

Now, as described above, it just shut off completely....I almost can't even back it out of the yard for it dying. Turning the idle screw up has no effect on the problem; and because it seems to run fine sitting still, I figure it's not the low speed idle circuit that's the issue here.

I do have the electric choke connected, but it's so warm down here this winter, I really don't need it hooked up...could this be causing the issue?

I also have the accelerator pump arm set to the longest stroke...should I set it back to the middle hole?

If I didn't need it to drive to work, I wouldn't fret with it or bother you guys...but right now, it's my only transportation to the job, and I need to figure this out asap.

Thanks,
Rob
 
i would check your float level. i had the same issues, same carb, 360/904. my carb was loading up and flooding the secondaries because a float was sticking.the motion of the car going into gear was rocking the float and fooding it out.i rebuilt the carb several times even using floats out of another one. take the top of the carb off and see how high the fuel is in the bowls, if they are equally level and where your floats are .this may or may not be the problem, but it was mine. then take it off and apart and clean clean clean it. i have since put a holley 600 on it. best move ive made in a while.
 
73,
I just got back in from trying your suggestions, and now the car seems to be running OK...when I drop it into gear, it doesn't shut off at all.

Although the float gas levels seemed to be fine, I noticed that the float drop was seriously off...it's supposed to be 15/16" at the far end of the float, but both of mine were in the range of 1.25"...over 1/4" too deep. I readjusted the tabs to get them back to 15/16", used a small probe to clean and air to blow all the tubes and vents out, and cleaned the bowls and accel pump chamber. I also unplugged the choke (what the hell, it can't hurt).

As of right now, it's running a lot better....tomorrow will be a telling day, since I have to drive it 60 miles round-trip to work and back, in traffic and on the open road.

I'll check in tomorrow evening and let you know how it worked out!

Thanks,
Rob
 
I’m writing this from work, because I wanted to report the car’s behavior on the way here this morning (26 miles). Even though it did not shut off when put in gear, I noticed that after the car warmed up, and at one of my 6 traffic light stops, the engine still tends to miss intermittently and “load up” while I sit still. When I take off, the car stumbles slightly, and then takes off quickly, almost like its ‘swallowing’ the last mouthful of gas and then catching its breath.


At lunch time, I did a little web research on recommended fuel pressures for these carbs, and the majority of cases say that these Edelbrock 1400 series need to have low pressure to operate efficiently (around 2 to 3.5 psi), or they will suffer similar symptoms. Mine was set at 4.5, so I dropped it to 3, and I’ll see what it does on the ride home this afternoon.

I also re-checked the idle circuit adjustment screws on the front, and found that the screws were not at the prescribed 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 turns out (the way they should be after getting the “stumble” when turned all the way in during adjustment); after I re-adjusted these, the idle smoothed noticeably and picked up a bit.

Again, I’ll see what happens on the way home; the trip back is more of a critical test, because I’ll be in stop-and-go, rush-hour traffic, and that’s usually when the damn thing gives me a fit.

Rob
 
My 69 Dart with a 225 used to do exactly that, wanting to die when put in "D", through many years and carbs, even after a new long block. I finally tried another carb and it suddenly ran perfect. Must have been many poorly rebuilt carbs out there (that was 1994). I think that is a sign of idling lean. It also wanted a lot of advance, even to the point of wanting to surge in "P" as the centrifugal advance came on, which I think is also a sign of lean.

My 273 showed strange problems recently, first time running on a new 2 barrel carb. It would start and run fine for 20 sec, then suddently switch to running bad and die. Waited a minute and it would start right up and repeat. I found the float setting was way off so the bowl was over-flowing into the throat. I suspect the tab got bent when the box was dropped in shipping.

For comparison, I also have an electric fuel pump, with an in-line Holley pressure reducing regulator, set at 5 psi. For testing, I cranked it to 9 psi and the needle held fine. I tested the level control with the ignition off and the top of the carb off so I could see the "toilet bowl fill" operation. I set the float level with a ruler.

I won't even go into my prior screw-ups where I found it was overflowing from no needle which I must have dropped when plumbing the lines, subsequent strange dribbling into the throat which was due to installing the needle backwards in my haste to get it running, plus the rotor 180 deg off (checked it, but after playing with phasing must have lost track). I hope I didn't wipe the new cam during all this screwing around.
 
Sure your choke is opening up all the way when warm ?
Wire it open and see if that helps.
I run Eddys on 2 of my cars, and removed the choke on both.
 
Idle RPM in N and D? How much does it drop when put in gear?

What is the cam and initial timing setting?
 
Johnny Dart said:
Sure your choke is opening up all the way when warm ?
Wire it open and see if that helps.
I run Eddys on 2 of my cars, and removed the choke on both.
Click to expand...

I'll try this Wednesday, Johnny; I'll be driving a different car tomorrow, because I have an appointment to keep, and don't need the aggravation of a malfunctioning car.

Idle RPM in N and D? How much does it drop when put in gear?

What is the cam and initial timing setting?
Click to expand...

Cracked...I don't have a tach, or any type of instrument to tell what the rpm's are....

Rob
 
Ghostsoldier said:
I'll try this Wednesday, Johnny; I'll be driving a different car tomorrow, because I have an appointment to keep, and don't need the aggravation of a malfunctioning car.


You mentioned you had your elictric choke hooked up.
Once the car is warm, take the air-cleaner lid off and see if the choke is "Fully" open. If not your car will run poopy.
Click to expand...
 
Johnny Dart said:
Ghostsoldier said:
I'll try this Wednesday, Johnny; I'll be driving a different car tomorrow, because I have an appointment to keep, and don't need the aggravation of a malfunctioning car.


You mentioned you had your elictric choke hooked up.
Once the car is warm, take the air-cleaner lid off and see if the choke is "Fully" open. If not your car will run poopy.
Click to expand...

I unplugged it last night, Johnny, but I'm still not sure if it's opening all the way; I'll wire it open, and see what happens....I'll report back.

Rob
Click to expand...
 
Lordy, we just went through 3 Eddy 1407's.

1st one, let the builder screw with it. Would run you out of the shop at idle.

2nd, let the dyno guy play with it (all he did was adjust idle screws, and screwed them up.)

Then we read up, got in here, etc. Great carb now.

Vacuum gauge, timing light with tach (more accurate), Read, read. And read some more. Then a $50 kit of jets and rods, and springs. Not perfect, but once you understand that Eddy/Carter/AFB. it gets easier.

First, ritchen rear jets about .04 like from .070 to .110 . The secondarys don' care if they are rich.

Primary, that is the trick. Adjust idle to lowest rpm; then use screws to get up to highest vacuum/ rpm. Then reset idle.

Un-loosen little plates above primary rods. Maks sure they are full down at idle (this is your Holley power valve in her). try weaker springs, until the rods pop up and down; go back 1 spring.

Now run the car, just 2 miles, reg grocery getter, now check plugs. no black, look good, no stumble, probably good. They seem to need to be richer, from experience, not the jets, just the rods.

Forget the acell pump; just put the rod closest to the body. It ain't a holley, trying to cover up a bog, with the pump. The bog, if you have one, is in the primaries.

Once we got a good one (it took 2 new ones from Edelbrock), and learned them, I won't have another holley.
 
15/16" , not 7/16"? . We had 8 psi fuel, Eddy starts screaming, on the phone, no more than 5.5 psi. Stop and think, a normal pump is 7. How can you sell a carb that a factory mech fuel pump over-powers?

We took it down to 5 psi, ran out of fuel at 4300 rpm. Set it to 7, good to go.The primary cicuit is the key to these carbs, Rods and jets. I'll never go back to Holleys.
 
looking back, i think my 1407 was too much carb and the holley 600 was a perfect cfm for the engine. i have a few 1405s,06s and the 07, i think i am going to give one of the smaller ones another shot. the holley has been pretty good , but it is very tempermental, especially when it is hot, and it is a little more of pain to get dialed in.
 
You have a vacuum gauge? A timing light?

Do you know your initial timing setting? If you can't answer this, you need to find it.

What happens to initial when it's put in gear? Does it lower itself?

Quick test before you do anything else. Start the car, loosen the dist hold down and turn the distributor body a little bit counterclockwise if SB, clockwise if BB. If the engine picks up RPM, it wants that additional initial timing or more, now you know what you need to do. Reset the idle speed and do it again. See what happens when the car goes into gear after you up initial.

If you have a vacuum gauge use it to see how far it wants the initial. Max vacuum, then back off timing so it drops 1", resetting idle speed. I have run in some cases, as much as the starter will handle without kickback.
 
Cracked,
I don't have a vac gauge, but I do have an induction timing light; my initial timing was set at 10-11 ATDC when I installed the new distributor last year.

I'll try the distributor test in the next few days...I've got to drive it to work tomorrow, so I can't work on it tonight.

Rob
 
What cam is in the engine?

I don't run ANY of my mopars with less than about 14 initial! Even stock 318's.

Once you get that sorted you can go after total timing. If you bump up initial, it will also bump up total. Just have to be careful not pushing your total too far.

You really need to get an analyzer/tach or a timing light that has an RPM feature on it. Knowing the RPM is pretty vital to getting the tune up close or correct.
 
Ghostsoldier said:
Cracked,
I don't have a vac gauge, but I do have an induction timing light; my initial timing was set at 10-11 ATDC when I installed the new distributor last year.

I'll try the distributor test in the next few days...I've got to drive it to work tomorrow, so I can't work on it tonight.


10-11 ATDC (After top dead center) would be considered retarding your timing.
You want your timing at BTDC (Before top dead center) which is considered advancing your timing from TDC (Top dead center).

Do yourself a favor. Go onto YouTube and look up:
"How to set your ignition timing". It is a MSD sponsored video.
This will give you a greater understanding of this topic.
JD
Click to expand...
 
I'm writing from work now, but I have to say that wiring the choke open like Johnny suggested has completely changed the way the car runs; it doesn't shut off at stop lights, and it ran a heckuva lot smoother this morning, on the way to work.

Maybe it's my choke, after all.

Rob
 
The youtube video is good with an excellent explanation, EXCEPT, they don't tell you how to arrive at an optimum initial timing setting. Saying 12* initial is a good setting, then saying 19 might be ok for a rowdy cam may work in some cases. Best to have the tools available to set it right, then get the distributor dialed in for the rest, mechanical advance/curve.

Bottom line, if you have your car running at idle and you twist some more advance into the engine, and it picks up RPM, it wants the additional advance at idle. Some people feel running a lot of initial is bad. Bunch of ways to skin a cat.

Yeah if the choke is closed up and it's running fat, you'll have issues. Need everything to act in concert.
 
crackedback said:
Yeah if the choke is closed up and it's running fat, you'll have issues. Need everything to act in concert.
Click to expand...

That being said, I decided to check a few more things this afternoon. Feeling like the slight hesitation that's left might be in the ignition, I checked my plug wires and plugs, just to be on the safe side (since the car has been in dormant storage for several months now). I found that all of the plugs had a red soot film on the electrodes, and two of my plug wire boots were split and not tightly connected to the plugs. I replaced all the wires and the plugs with new stuff, and now it runs like a new car!

Also, I let the car warm up, un-wired the choke and watched it for movement....and it never opened on it's own, even after giving it throttle. So, I loosened the choke housing screws and turned it until the plate opened fully, and then tightened them back down....it seems to run a helluva lot better now.

I guess it was combination of the two. :banghead:

We'll see how it does tomorrow. :)

Rob
 
You REALLY need to seriously consider spending some dough on test gear.

TACH You can use an in-car tach, so buy one and install it

COMPRESSION GAUGE. Get one with a popular style (not proprietary) quick coupler. I have two, one is Proto, one I forgot, BOTH have a quick disconnect with a so called "industrial interchange" or "Hanson Milton" air coupler. That way you can use it for other stuff---

(If you buy one, get "the guy" to make SURE it fits a commonly available quick coupler so you can attach it to an air hose coupler, even if it's not what your shop uses, that way you can adapt it

I used to know the names of the popular ones, AeroSpeed, Hanson-Milton/ Industrial Interchange, Lincoln, and tru-flate

injecting air into cylinders to test, or even to build your own homebrew leakdown tester, which is an EASY project, LOTS of info on the www

VACUUM gauge, at any parts store, are not expensive, lots of info on the net on how to use and diagnose problems, AND YOU CAN EVEN USE one for setting timing. Just adjust at lowest good idle for highest reading, then retard timing to drop vacuum a couple of inches Hg.

TIMING LIGHT I guess you have. I prefer the old school, NOT the "dial up" or "delay" types. Seen a few that were not accurate. You can degree your balancer or buy the right size timing tape.

USE a "piston stop" to make sure your marks are accurate

Like this, you can make 'em, or buy one

http://www.jerrybramlett.net/images/pic_installation.jpg

What you do is, remove the no1 plug, wrench or bump the engine until the piston is "down a ways" then remove the battery ground for safety. Install the stop, you might need to diddle the length at first, NOT critical. Now wrench the engine in normal rotation until the piston stops on the device. You are NOT looking for TDC, but rather "some amount" before TDC. Make a temporary mark onto the balancer under TDC on the timing tab. Now rotate CCW and do the same thing.

You now have TWO marks, and true TDC is halfway in between, so if the stock mark is accurate, that is where it will be.

From there, measure around your balancer carefully with a narrow, flexible tape, and figure how many "degrees per inch" for your wheel. Then mark it off and scribe the markings, or buy the correct timing tape for your balancer size.

You can look for crap like exhaust / vacuum leaks, and other wierd noise with a scrap length of fuel hose.
 
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