Car still runs with key off ..have I wired this right?

-

Wagon of Death

Aussie Barracuda Fisherman
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
120
Reaction score
34
Location
Brisbane,Aust
Did a quick search but couldnt find anything specific to help me.Ive rewired my engine bay and moved the battery to the truck area. I connected the charge wire from my "one wire" alternator, directly to the +B pole on the starter motor as recommended, and it starts and runs properly...however, when I turn the key off, the motor wont shut down...Im guessing this might be a feedback problem with the alternator wire? Suggestions on how to rectify this would be greatly appreciated. I remember reading something on here or the A Body page on FB but cant find it again...

Any ideas gentlemen?
 
There is no way for the alternator to feed back if it's connected to the battery. Sounds like something else is wrong. Can you detail your other wiring?


For example what are you running for igntiion IE does it use a ballast and if so how did you run the bypass circurit

What exactly is this we are dealing with, and is it mostly stock wiring, or chopped up factory, or all after market? And what exactly are you using for an ignition switch.
 
There is no way for the alternator to feed back if it's connected to the battery. Sounds like something else is wrong. Can you detail your other wiring?


For example what are you running for igntiion IE does it use a ballast and if so how did you run the bypass circurit

What exactly is this we are dealing with, and is it mostly stock wiring, or chopped up factory, or all after market? And what exactly are you using for an ignition switch.

Hi there

MSD distributor, box mounted inside...Battery cable from rear to a pole under dash, from here it powers new fuse box, MSD box, battery line to starter motor and powers factory starter relay thats been moved inside also..Factory ignition switch, tapped the hot wire in the "start" position and wired that to the starter relay. Have 2 power wires that run to the hot wires in the factory loom I removed from the bulkhead ( one that was from the battery feed and the one the alternator would have provided ) that went to ammeter,and powered the factory fuse box,wipers, lights etc...Ive joined the ammeter wires together and sealed
Everything seems to work, its just the engine wont shut down on the key
 
So it has power with the key off all of the time?
 
.Factory ignition switch,

OK how exactly did you wire the factory key to the MSD? And what exactly are we working on, that is what is the ignition switch out of?

You have IGN1 "run" which is the "normal" run power supply under the hood to ignition, VR, alternator field, etc.

BUT THAT GOES DEAD in start

So you must jumper IGN2 (normally brown, normally fed to coil+ sided of ballast) ---you much jumper that to IGN1 to get ignition starting power in "start"

IF YOU jumpered the start wire to ign1 instead of the IGN2 post to IGN1 it is possible that start relay feedback can hold the MSD "on."
 
Test the small red trigger wire from your MSD box. Is that wire hot with key in off position? If so, you have something bleeding or have a live wire from the battery connected in line to it.

The blue and brown wires are the only two common colored OEM wires (ign1/ign2) from engine bay that should connect to MSD small red wire.
 
OK how exactly did you wire the factory key to the MSD? And what exactly are we working on, that is what is the ignition switch out of?

You have IGN1 "run" which is the "normal" run power supply under the hood to ignition, VR, alternator field, etc.

BUT THAT GOES DEAD in start

So you must jumper IGN2 (normally brown, normally fed to coil+ sided of ballast) ---you much jumper that to IGN1 to get ignition starting power in "start"

IF YOU jumpered the start wire to ign1 instead of the IGN2 post to IGN1 it is possible that start relay feedback can hold the MSD "on."


Good call....this could in fact be true...Ill go and look at it now

Its an older MSD box, MSD distributor and mostly factory 68 Barracuda wiring
 
Test the small red trigger wire from your MSD box. Is that wire hot with key in off position? If so, you have something bleeding or have a live wire from the battery connected in line to it.

The blue and brown wires are the only two common colored OEM wires (ign1/ign2) from engine bay that should connect to MSD small red wire.

Thanks for the reply...Ill go and recheck my work now
 
And what crackedback posted is important..........there might be something wrong with the MSD. Those turn on/ off like a relay, that is the main power for the MSD box comes direct from the battery, the "big red" but the on/off command/ trigger comes from the small red. So as he said, something might be "bleeding" (bad ignition switch?) or a MSD problem might be causing it to remain live regardless of the trigger
 
I ran into a similar situation when I replaced my mechanical regulator with a new electronic one. Problem stopped when I found a mechanical one to switch back. MSD takes a remarkably small bleed through to run.
 
And what crackedback posted is important..........there might be something wrong with the MSD. Those turn on/ off like a relay, that is the main power for the MSD box comes direct from the battery, the "big red" but the on/off command/ trigger comes from the small red. So as he said, something might be "bleeding" (bad ignition switch?) or a MSD problem might be causing it to remain live regardless of the trigger

Trigger wire is definitely in the wrong place...you mentioned IGN1 and IGN2... Ive found the blue provides power in "on" position but goes off when moved to "START" , the brown wire is the opposite... are you implying that I can connect the two and use that as the trigger or did I misread your post up further? I will add that this MSD has run in this car before although last time it looks like it was cobbled to a wire that was hot in the ON position , looks like somebodies bodged it up to work...I want to get it right this time
 
That's correct, IGN1 goes dead, IGN2 used to be the bypass ballast in start position of key, so hook them together. Somebody mentioned the VR you might try unplugging the VR if this here doesn't work
 
That's correct, IGN1 goes dead, IGN2 used to be the bypass ballast in start position of key, so hook them together. Somebody mentioned the VR you might try unplugging the VR if this here doesn't work

Thankyou for the help... Ill have another go at this shortly..I think that will sort my issue
 
According to MSD:
When run on is experienced, a resistor can be put in line with the MSD small red wire, which will stop voltage leaking through the MSD unit.

What the diagram shows is a Chrysler dual ballast resistor, where the resistors are connected in series, one end of the series configuration is grounded & the other has the small red wire connected to it.
 
The only time I've ever seen this happen is with an electric fan. You'd shut the car off, the fan would still be spinning acting as a generator and the motor would keep running until the fan stopped.
 
According to MSD:
When run on is experienced, a resistor can be put in line with the MSD small red wire, which will stop voltage leaking through the MSD unit.

What the diagram shows is a Chrysler dual ballast resistor, where the resistors are connected in series, one end of the series configuration is grounded & the other has the small red wire connected to it.

Saw that...Im going to try the rewire as described by 67Dart and Cracked first and see if that nets the result Im chasing...I did read that in the instructions..Hopefully Ive got this
 
I'm not understanding what you really have checked In my mind you have three possibilities..........

A..........Something is wrong with the MSD, and even though power to the small read IS getting cut, the box still provides spark because of that problem

B........Something in the car is backfeeding power to the ignition "run" line

C.......The ignition switch is defective

So here's what I'd do.....

Aa..........To prove the MSD is OK disconnect the small red trigger wire and "hotwire" it to power. Start the engine, disconnect the small red (more than once) and determine if the engine stops.

Bb....Identify what all is connected to the ignition run line, any and all loads, the instrument cluster, any relays, warning lamps, the VR, alternator field and of course the MSD Monitor the line with a LAMP so you can "see" power. With the problem "showing" that is with key off and engine running, pull loose loads one at a time. Pull off the alternator field. If that kills it, reconnect, restart, and pull off the VR

Move from there to what else is connected

Cc.....If A, B above don't give you anything then access the ignition switch wiring, connector Those terminals can be removed from the connector Start engine, turn off key, engine should still be running pull "run" wire out and confirm (hopefully) the engine dies. Probe the switch end and see if it is still "hot" to the run line.
 
-
Back
Top