Cast vs. Aluminum heads and bang for buck..

Would you spend the same amount of money or more on cast iron heads instead of aluminum?

  • No

  • Yes

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I'm assuming the reason 50 to 60 years later that these mopar's are still running because of the exact machine work that was done at the factory. The individual attention every motor was given with that unyielding attention to detail...
 
j par said:
I'm assuming the reason 50 to 60 years later that these mopar's are still running because of the exact machine work that was done at the factory. The individual attention every motor was given with that unyielding attention to detail...
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LOL.... ^^^ bests post of yours in a while. Everyone believes (or is talked into believing) their project will blow up if abcdefghijklmnop isn't done
 
j par said:
I'm assuming the reason 50 to 60 years later that these mopar's are still running because of the exact machine work that was done at the factory. The individual attention every motor was given with that unyielding attention to detail...
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and how many factory 340's had hemi grind cams installed with factory springs and churned 7000 rpm. and it lived. lol
same goes with the 383, did it and never hurt them. lol
 
j par said:
Just called a machine shop today getting recommendations for a customers 65 GTO. it came with a 400 which definitely was not original and in the conversation we were told to definitely get a solid steel crank because those cast ones are junk..
He's just after a little Street Rod horsepower nothing to set the world on fire. And that was said. now five years after drag racing I have to worry about my cast crank being junk??...
I mean look at the Hughes website there's so much hype it's unbelievable. I love a couple few of their products but jeez...
machine shops love to take you down the rabbit hole of well if you get this you're going to need that.. and that's definitely junk... "IT'S A PROFIT THING" (from the movie The Jerk..)
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It's not the Pontiac cranks that are sketchy. It's the rods.

But I've used plenty of OE Pontiac rods and never had a failure. They just make me a bit queasy.
 
j par said:
See while you pan for the disagree button I have to go and give yr an agree...
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that's what I should do... buy a 600 dollar van, and put Pro Maxx heads on a tired, 270k miles 360... LOL
 
It's easy to admit that I fell for the hype with the Stroker. Fortunately for me I don't regret one instant. If I'm even thinking about it I just need to take the car for a ride and I forgot about everything except for trying to get home alive...:thumbsup:
 
j par said:
Or another idea would be to buy a $600 van and put a $5, 000 stereo system in it... Your money your fun...
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LOL... give Pro Maxx a bad review on their 1800 dollar heads because they didn't perform well on a tired, single exhaust 360 in a van... :D
 
steel crank for a pontiac? jeez agree with YR - and everyone's rods
and I know
good
and Evil
but what the hell is Midevil?
Van with 5000 stereo
must have those fantastic Vantastic special van speakers
 
j par said:
Just called a machine shop today getting recommendations for a customers 65 GTO. it came with a 400 which definitely was not original and in the conversation we were told to definitely get a solid steel crank because those cast ones are junk..
He's just after a little Street Rod horsepower nothing to set the world on fire. And that was said. now five years after drag racing I have to worry about my cast crank being junk??...
I mean look at the Hughes website there's so much hype it's unbelievable. I love a couple few of their products but jeez...
machine shops love to take you down the rabbit hole of well if you get this you're going to need that.. and that's definitely junk... "IT'S A PROFIT THING" (from the movie The Jerk..)
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Yeah either he's looking to sell stuff or don't know pontiacs,the armasteel crank is a beast,now the block will split at 700 or so but that's a different story. The rods are decent for mild builds but anything that's really getting a beating and I just buy h beams.
 
lead69 said:
Yeah either he's looking to sell stuff or don't know pontiacs,the armasteel crank is a beast,now the block will split at 700 or so but that's a different story. The rods are decent for mild builds but anything that's really getting a beating and I just buy h beams.
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To be fair he was talking about an aftermarket stroker crank. when I mentioned just getting some easy horsepower that way. The car is kind of big and heavy and I'd like him to have a little something to get it moving. He's not looking again to set the world on fire he just wants well to be honest not get passed by a Prius...
Maybe just a stout like you're saying stock crank rods some custom Pistons and of course, dare I say it LOL aluminum heads....
FYI .. I'm sure I said it before but I think my Speedmaster heads are complete jewels and I see not one flaw..
Just the guru's gettin in my head that's alll...
 
Screenshot_20191018-155221.png
:thumbsup:
 
j par said:
To be fair he was talking about an aftermarket stroker crank. when I mentioned just getting some easy horsepower that way. The car is kind of big and heavy and I'd like him to have a little something to get it moving. He's not looking again to set the world on fire he just wants well to be honest not get passed by a Prius...
Maybe just a stout like you're saying stock crank rods some custom Pistons and of course, dare I say it LOL aluminum heads....
FYI .. I'm sure I said it before but I think my Speedmaster heads are complete jewels and I see not one flaw..
Just the guru's gettin in my head that's alll...
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Yeah,still several companies have a nodular stroker crank that is plenty strong and alot cheaper,and pro comp makes pontiac heads cheap lol.In my experinence that manifold is junk though.
 
j par said:
To be fair he was talking about an aftermarket stroker crank. when I mentioned just getting some easy horsepower that way. The car is kind of big and heavy and I'd like him to have a little something to get it moving. He's not looking again to set the world on fire he just wants well to be honest not get passed by a Prius...
Maybe just a stout like you're saying stock crank rods some custom Pistons and of course, dare I say it LOL aluminum heads....
FYI .. I'm sure I said it before but I think my Speedmaster heads are complete jewels and I see not one flaw..
Just the guru's gettin in my head that's alll...
Click to expand...


Unless you want to run really low compression or you don't mind buying a custom piston, you just about have to buy aluminum heads for the Pontiac stuff.

There just ain't much for off the shelf Pistons for those things.
 
lead69 said:
Yeah,still several companies have a nodular stroker crank that is plenty strong and alot cheaper,and pro comp makes pontiac heads cheap lol.In my experinence that manifold is junk though.
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My goodness those Factory heads, I never seen a chamber so big!!! I said if we use these Factory heads were going to need like a 2in dome on a piston...
 
We ran an armasteel cast crank in the Navarro Indy project
(stock factory crank also available in high psi nodular- both worked)
no failures
and a 6 cyl crank even with 7 mains moves around more than a V8
 
The Poncho heads in that SM ad require like $800 headers.

It’s reeeeaaallly easy to put together a 455 Poncho with a mish-mash combo of the wrong stuff and end up with solidly under 350hp.
Built by a local speed shop too.

Okay...... I’ll spill it.
323hp....... after swapping out the supplied 670vs street avenger carb for my dyno mule 850DP.
However....... the carb swap was only worth about 5hp.

The owner had requested a 500hp motor.
The motor was delivered to the shop doing the install with a dyno sheet that said something like 343hp.

They wanted me to re-do it to get 500hp out of it, and I told them I’d have to test it before I took it apart.

317hp as delivered.
 
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About 500 bucks to cover valves and machining ,guides , seats and all that..
I can build a set of iron J's in the 250cfm range.
If you have no heads to start with or can't get any for dirt cheap then maybe the aluminum head that's the way to go.
if the level of performance your building exceeds the cost effort or ability of a factory Ironhead then maybe an aluminum head is for you. There are iron heads that are comparable and or better then most aluminum heads for a small block Mopar. If the decision you've made on heads is an educated one don't feel bad about what you picked, this isn't communist russia..we can do it differently.
 
I’m doing some j’s right now.

They will def cost more that what you could buy import aluminum heads for, and the owner wants some quench out of a 340, so it’s going to get some expensive custom quench dome pistons too.

The quench area depth varied .040, and after equalizing that and the valve drop, one head still had one big chamber, and one that was 3cc smaller.
They’re within 1cc now....... but that type of **** just eats up time.
 
Depends on how you go about getting the quench what piston you decide to use how far sticks out of the deck if you decide just to Mill the flat /open side down and leave the small side past the eyebrows alone Mill the head Etc. I had a small chamber too, 4cc small. Lol is a pain.
Opening them up to the scribed bore helped equalize them. The not so round chambers vary. If you're in a hurry and/or lookin for perfection...use another head. Lol
 
PRH said:
I’m doing some j’s right now.

They will def cost more that what you could buy import aluminum heads for, and the owner wants some quench out of a 340, so it’s going to get some expensive custom quench dome pistons too.

The quench area depth varied .040, and after equalizing that and the valve drop, one head still had one big chamber, and one that was 3cc smaller.
They’re within 1cc now....... but that type of **** just eats up time.
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Yeah, that stuff is a real time killer. Was the chamber off from the casting or was it machined incorrectly at one time in its life?

.040 seems like a bunch. The last head I did were only off .010 across both heads.

I got lucky.
 
Customer brings me two cleaned, magged cores.
Not much core shift. They’ve been done at least once before.
One head had 3 chambers pretty close with regards to quench area depth....... one .030 lower/deeper.
The other head had the two ends .040 apart, the two in the middle split the difference.
The two deepest ones were .090 and .100 deep.
They’re all about .105-.110 deep now, nominal 67.5cc.
The smallest chamber also had the valve job about .025 closer to the deck.
That whole chamber was just closer to the deck.

Aftermarket closed chamber heads...... zero deck with flat tops....... done.
Better and cheaper.

The target intake flow was 240.
Wasn’t giving that up without trimming the guides and the lump in the roof.
Way more work than 240 out of an X head.
Shooting for 160 from the exhaust.
After new seats installed, vj and a bowl blend, bullet nose the guide boss...... 158.
I’ll clean up the rest of the runner, should get me there.
There is no SSR on the ex port on this vintage of 340/360 heads...... so that extra clean up may or may not pan out.

I converted to 11/32 stem nailhead valves.

I will say this, stock J’s can vary quite a bit.
I had a set of refreshed 915’s in the shop once....... off the same motor.
Looked like nothing special. Flowed one.....215cfm.
Same as what you typically get with a vj and a minor quickie blend.
I looked that head all over..... saw nothing to indicate why it was that good.
Flowed another cylinder...... about the same.

Flowed the other head...... mid-190’s.
Aaahh...... that’s more like it.
I didn’t cc them, but I bet one was bigger.

I tested one pair of ports on the set I’m working on now before I did anything.
I had already replaced the guides so I was able to use the new 11/32 valves.
The previous shop used a valve seat cutter with a big radius on the bottom for both intake and exhaust, along with a little bit of a vertical plunge cut at the bottom.
Flowed 213/137 @.500.

30624599-910C-4B89-9336-64D86941C929.jpeg
 
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