Cast vs. Aluminum heads and bang for buck..

Would you spend the same amount of money or more on cast iron heads instead of aluminum?

  • No

  • Yes

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PRH said:
Customer brings me two cleaned, magged cores.
Not much core shift. They’ve been done at least once before.
One head had 3 chambers pretty close with regards to quench area depth....... one .030 lower/deeper.
The other head had the two ends .040 apart, the two in the middle split the difference.
The two deepest ones were .090 and .100 deep.
They’re all about .105-.110 deep now, nominal 67.5cc.
The smallest chamber also had the valve job about .025 closer to the deck.
That whole chamber was just closer to the deck.

Aftermarket closed chamber heads...... zero deck with flat tops....... done.
Better and cheaper.

The target intake flow was 240.
Wasn’t giving that up without trimming the guides and the lump in the roof.
Way more work than 240 out of an X head.
Shooting for 160 from the exhaust.
After new seats installed, vj and a bowl blend, bullet nose the guide boss...... 158.
I’ll clean up the rest of the runner, should get me there.

I converted to 11/32 stem nailhead valves.
Click to expand...


I was going to go to .342 stems but I already had an almost ran brand new set of .375's here and said screw it.

On the W2 deal I'm going .312 stems. I also have a bunch of used up junk 2.100 and 1.600 5/16 stem valves I'm going to cut down and test with.

All tulip head stuff for the 50 degree seats I'm going to use.
 
deja vu all over again
like what we were doing 40 years ago but no aluminum heads available then
put a 3.68 stroker in it or 4" and lots of available pistons
yr- you doing 50 on the exhausts too?
happy testing
are your 5/6 valves + 100 by any chance?
guess it does not matter for tests
 
Wyrmrider said:
deja vu all over again
like what we were doing 40 years ago but no aluminum heads available then
put a 3.68 stroker in it or 4" and lots of available pistons
yr- you doing 50 on the exhausts too?
happy testing
are your 5/6 valves + 100 by any chance?
guess it does not matter for tests
Click to expand...


Yes, 50 on both sides. Who knows...I may play with a 55 on the exhaust. Or both since I have them.

The valves I have are 5.350 OAL IIRC.
 
All the ex seats on one head were pretty bad. The other head was better.

I put seats in all 8 ex.
I don’t like a radius on the intake, so I recut it and added a normal bowl cut.

4B4452F4-AF8A-4405-8480-6D99740FFBA2.jpeg


4C5188B8-206C-4804-96F8-A46A51C70F87.jpeg


41270EB9-A119-4E78-A103-C2E371E3F580.jpeg
 
I would say....... the BB guys seemed to more quickly embrace the affordable aluminum replacements to the 902/346/452 heads than it’s taking the SB community.

I see more BB stuff overall, and maybe that’s why it seems that way to me.
 
PRH said:
I would say....... the BB guys seemed to more quickly embrace the affordable aluminum replacements to the 902/346/452 heads than it’s taking the SB community.

I see more BB stuff overall, and maybe that’s why it seems that way to me.
Click to expand...
How much included the 440source.com chinese cylinder heads? They WERE $900 a pair assembled, so yeah, that would 'check(s) with chart.'
 
I wish someone would make a small block mopar head in aluminium that looked like a cast one so they dont stand out in the engine bay. They could also sell them with the pushrod holes undrilled or multi drilled for use with either std location rockers or offset rockers and so they could be opened up without tubing. A better design exhaust port similar to the w2 over the standard heads would also be nice rather than the copy of the standard 360 ports.
 
evil66 said:
I wish someone would make a small block mopar head in aluminium that looked like a cast one so they dont stand out in the engine bay. They could also sell them with the pushrod holes undrilled or multi drilled for use with either std location rockers or offset rockers and so they could be opened up without tubing. A better design exhaust port similar to the w2 over the standard heads would also be nice rather than the copy of the standard 360 ports.
Click to expand...


You would sell about 3 sets of heads if you didn't put the pushrod holes in them. Trust me on that.
 
Last edited:
PRH said:
Customer brings me two cleaned, magged cores.
Not much core shift. They’ve been done at least once before.
One head had 3 chambers pretty close with regards to quench area depth....... one .030 lower/deeper.
The other head had the two ends .040 apart, the two in the middle split the difference.
The two deepest ones were .090 and .100 deep.
They’re all about .105-.110 deep now, nominal 67.5cc.
The smallest chamber also had the valve job about .025 closer to the deck.
That whole chamber was just closer to the deck.

Aftermarket closed chamber heads...... zero deck with flat tops....... done.
Better and cheaper.

The target intake flow was 240.
Wasn’t giving that up without trimming the guides and the lump in the roof.
Way more work than 240 out of an X head.
Shooting for 160 from the exhaust.
After new seats installed, vj and a bowl blend, bullet nose the guide boss...... 158.
I’ll clean up the rest of the runner, should get me there.
There is no SSR on the ex port on this vintage of 340/360 heads...... so that extra clean up may or may not pan out.

I converted to 11/32 stem nailhead valves.

I will say this, stock J’s can vary quite a bit.
I had a set of refreshed 915’s in the shop once....... off the same motor.
Looked like nothing special. Flowed one.....215cfm.
Same as what you typically get with a vj and a minor quickie blend.
I looked that head all over..... saw nothing to indicate why it was that good.
Flowed another cylinder...... about the same.

Flowed the other head...... mid-190’s.
Aaahh...... that’s more like it.
I didn’t cc them, but I bet one was bigger.

I tested one pair of ports on the set I’m working on now before I did anything.
I had already replaced the guides so I was able to use the new 11/32 valves.
The previous shop used a valve seat cutter with a big radius on the bottom for both intake and exhaust, along with a little bit of a vertical plunge cut at the bottom.
Flowed 213/137 @.500.

View attachment 1715410833
Click to expand...
I figure you've tested the 2.02 head. Not that great. 218cfm after a 5 angle last I checked mine before the 11/32 swap and porting.
I have a set of 915 j with a 3 angle, steep throat like factory or more that the one port I tested 3/8 2.02 tulip peaks 228cfm.
still goes haywire after .450ish of course.
 
I’ve tested many factory 2.02 heads.
From what Ive seen they can vary greatly.
195 from one head, 215 from its mate off the other bank.

Stock x head, grind seat only, Manley 3/8 valve.....216.
Blend bowl and SSR, no work on pinch.....240.

This J Head, same bowl work, quite a bit more work to SSR, pinch to .960.......233.
Narrow up guide boss, diminish bump in roof, a little more work to SSR......243.

The SSR on the X head is much better to start with.

SM head ootb, no VJ, no blending....... right ootb........240.

Typical stock non-X head with 2.02 valve, VJ, bowl cut, very minor bowl blend is usually in the 215-220 range...... with basically no work on the SSR or guide boss.

I refurbished some 587’s that were in very nice original unmolested condition.
Grind seats only, still 1.88 valve....... 192.

Original condition TA Head with OE valves......200.

All shown at .500 lift.
 
Last edited:
You mean the factory cut into the plug boss?
In the one pic where it’s visible, there hasn’t been any porting yet.
As for flow....... it doesn’t do anything to round that over.
 
If I was building a street small block in the 450-500hp range I would probably get the promaxx shocker heads. The local machine shop brings them in and does a valve job on them and they are a lot cheaper than the trick flows....I’m in Canada so you’re prices may be better.
 
PRH said:
You mean the factory cut into the plug boss?
In the one pic where it’s visible, there hasn’t been any porting yet.
As for flow....... it doesn’t do anything to round that over.
Click to expand...
Did you say the unported SM's flowed about 250 and I believe you posted numbers about x heads and J heads not be past the 230-240 mark?
Obviously I'm just seeing if I may get a bump in flow?..
 
318willrun said:
as you said, blurry.... but from what I can see, the bowls look nice
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure that had to been the sure I took when I was finished with my own hand porting.. so I took them back to the shop and have them put 2 hours porting labor into them and load up the valves and get them set up...
I'll be curious to put the two side-by-side with no valves..
 
For my own personal motor, shooting for 500-550hp or so, I’d use RPM heads since I can buy them for enough less than TF190’s to make it worth my while to do a little reworking myself.
And it doesn’t add to my cash outlay to have that done.

If I were really trying to be closer to 600..... I’d give the TF’s a try.
 
per post 114
You and I know that
I was just pointing out a potential hot spot for the other observers
you have to deal with all sharp edges or threads showing
 
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