Change efi or change intakes????

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11.2

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I'm running ez 1.0 on my 416. I've always fought with low vacuum. I was going to swap my rpm dual plane with a victor single but recently spoke with a member here who suggested switching to a Holley or fitech system that doesn't require a strong vacuum signal. I was convinced but the more I read the more I find that all tbi systems prefer single planes.
any thoughts ?
 
11.2 said:
I'm running ez 1.0 on my 416. I've always fought with low vacuum. I was going to swap my rpm dual plane with a victor single but recently spoke with a member here who suggested switching to a Holley or fitech system that doesn't require a strong vacuum signal. I was convinced but the more I read the more I find that all tbi systems prefer single planes.
any thoughts ?
Click to expand...
if u stop and think about it, it seems a single plane would be better w/ a throttle body. the open plenum seems as it would work better to me. I`m running a torquer 2, w/ the low flowing runners opened up.. my cam doesn`t have as much vacuum as fast says they`d like, but so far so good.
 
I'm a little surprised that the EFI system would require a strong signal like a carb venturi.

If your idle vacuum is really low because of a huge cam, it may just be outside of the "self learning" feature's parameters.

I have an MPFI setup on mine and the intake is a Super Victor which has a 3500-8000 rpm range with a carb and it's better at low RPM than the performer RPM air gap was.

I think the fuel mixing doesn't need to be done as much as with a carb since injectors spray a fine mist. So a single plane is probably fine too. But, don't think you need to change it either.
 
Seems to me after all I have read that most folks have had better results with a single plane with TBI. I know that FiTech claims that theirs doesn't care what manifold is used. Personally if I was in your position I would try the single plane manifold first since you already have the FI unit. A manifold is cheaper than a completely new system and easier to recoupe the cost than the FI if it doesn't improve.
 
I was thinking of going with the fitech due to the fact that I also would like to start using a little spray, my ez efi doesn't have that ability. As you say they claim that vacuum isn't an issue but I'm thinking the same, change the intake first.
On the other hand I have people telling me that I will lose performance with a single plane because my build isn't high rpm. The guys that are telling me this are expierienced builders but not so familiar with tbi.
 
Map sensor issues?

I'm gonnaarmchair again...
I've seen single plains on early 273s and 318s. Factory installs. Albeit under 2bbls,lol. So seeing as we are not in the racers forum, I'm guessing this is a street car, and you want to occasionally rip up the track.
You have a 416. Since you say the combo is not deserving of a single plain, I would assume you have a small to medium cam. In which case your 416 is a torque monster down low. Soooooo losing a bit of off-the-line torque around town is no big thing.
You can get a singleP to fill a couple to several different rpm and power levels.So it would seem easy enough to find one to fit your application. It's not like putting an M1 on a teener;you have Four Hundred and Sixteen Cubic Inches.
I put a smallport/small plenum Wiand AxCelerator (single plain) onto a 360 with a small cam. Worked great! When the AG (dual plain) came out,I put one of those on. It was better up top. And in the mids. And lost/gained nothing down low. Later I put a lil bigger cam in it, and the AG is still great. This item easily pulls my 230* cammed 367 cuber,hard, to over 7000rpm. But I think the power peaks much earlier; maybe a few hundred below 6000.
In any case it seems to me, that between 5500 and 6500 either type can pull very hard, and it seems to me that the design/execution of a particular manufacturer plays a much bigger role than just the basic type.And it also seems to me that on a 416,either type of manifold can work well on a streeter with a mild TC.On a teener you have to be careful, but Ima thinkin' on a stroker,not so much.
I know nothing about racing, except it's expensive.
That's me arm-chairing.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
Map sensor issues?

I'm gonnaarmchair again...
I've seen single plains on early 273s and 318s. Factory installs. Albeit under 2bbls,lol. So seeing as we are not in the racers forum, I'm guessing this is a street car, and you want to occasionally rip up the track.
You have a 416. Since you say the combo is not deserving of a single plain, I would assume you have a small to medium cam. In which case your 416 is a torque monster down low. Soooooo losing a bit of off-the-line torque around town is no big thing.
You can get a singleP to fill a couple to several different rpm and power levels.So it would seem easy enough to find one to fit your application. It's not like putting an M1 on a teener;you have Four Hundred and Sixteen Cubic Inches.
I put a smallport/small plenum Wiand AxCelerator (single plain) onto a 360 with a small cam. Worked great! When the AG (dual plain) came out,I put one of those on. It was better up top. And in the mids. And lost/gained nothing down low. Later I put a lil bigger cam in it, and the AG is still great. This item easily pulls my 230* cammed 367 cuber,hard, to over 7000rpm. But I think the power peaks much earlier; maybe a few hundred below 6000.
In any case it seems to me, that between 5500 and 6500 either type can pull very hard, and it seems to me that the design/execution of a particular manufacturer plays a much bigger role than just the basic type.And it also seems to me that on a 416,either type of manifold can work well on a streeter with a mild TC.On a teener you have to be careful, but Ima thinkin' on a stroker,not so much.
I know nothing about racing, except it's expensive.
That's me arm-chairing.
Click to expand...
Wow! I think thats the first post I've read of yours AJ/FormS that I didn't get lost halfway through. And I agree with you (for whats thats worth) in the fact that the right single plane won't hurt too much down low for that motor.
 
I'm just a farmer's son from the central planes of Canada, where the igloos only melt along the border, the sun has no power for 11 months of the year, and we all snuggle to keep warm.
You know why our beer is stronger than yours? Cuz it has to be to get into our syrupy blood. If our beer was as weekazz as yours we could never get a buzz started. And when it finally did kick in, it would be Monday,three days later, and time to go back to work,lol. I only drink your beer in July. Ok I'm just kidding; I stopped sipping in 94.
 
Ok, what single plane would work the best in my case
Ported eddies 202 valves
10.7:1
252/242 550 lift lunatic hyd roller
3800 lb car
3000 stall
3.91 gears
518 od
And yes u are right. Street car that hits the track a few times a year
I do not have room for a super victor
Thanks in advance
 
11.2 said:
Ok, what single plane would work the best in my case
Ported eddies 202 valves
10.7:1
252/242 550 lift lunatic hyd roller
3800 lb car
3000 stall
3.91 gears
518 od
And yes u are right. Street car that hits the track a few times a year
I do not have room for a super victor
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Torker II ?
 
Well that looks like a dynomite street pkg.

And again let me say I have no knowledge about 416s.
I can say that in my 367 that cam would definitely want a single plain. If I imagine that your cam is advertised about 284* and is a 110LDA in at 108, then your 10.7 Scr translates to 8.23 DCr, with about 166 psi cranking cylinder pressure. This is a great street place to be, and with aluminum heads should be comfortable on 87 gas. With a 367, 8.23 might be a tad soft off the line; and would want some rear gear. But I can't see that with a 416, and especially not yours, and its 9.58 starter gear and 3000TC. So you could probably give up a lot of torque under 3000 and would never miss it. Conversely, as a streeter, you don't need any more up top. However, your starter gear dictates a 7500rpm shift into second at 60 mph, with 27s out back and 5% TCslip. That wants a power peak around 6800 and the ported heads to stretch it out.But your cam will likely peak a thousand rpm sooner; soooo that's not gonna be the fast way to 60 cuz you are gonna have to shift. And I'm gonna guess around 6400.
That 6400 will get you into second at about 52mph.At that mph second comes in at 3850ish, and now that 416 is gonna show it's worth, cuz my 367 is a little soft down there, with a lot less cam, and more Dcr.
So what all this boils down to is this; If I am remotely close on the 5800rpm power peak and a 6400 rpm shift speed, then you don't need a big singleplain. In fact I would stay away from it, cuz pulling from 3850 with a big single,IDK; it's a good thing you have a 416.
But your 416 should be happy with a medium sized SP, not an Excellerator,lol.
Now, as to which one I can't say, there's lots of waaay smarter guys than me on FABO, that will be along shortly. But I would sure try to make that RPM work, cuz it's about the right one for a streeter. The AG would be a bit better for sure, but it's pretty tall too. Here's an idea; how 'bout drilling every runner up near the head-flange, and injecting the Nitrous there? Might that be the best solution? IDK. If nothing else the plumbing would sure look cool.
 
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I originally bought the ez with the port conversion kit. finally got the engine together (408" 550hp)and started only to find it wouldn't run/learn under 11".I bought the system before the cam specs (bad idea),I'm using a port matched super victor and converted to sportsman xfi. Its much more tuneable and the only hardware change was the ecu and harness. the sensors stayed. I did have to lock out the distributor and install a phase able rotor. the single plane works better with port injection, when I talked to the FAST guys when they were at Englishtown, they told me the TBI unit was specifically designed around bolt on conversions and dual plane runner designs were figured in to the fuel mapping, but single planes were ideal.
 
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