thought that header might get your attention...8) I need some help figuring a few things out. being just out of chevy into Mopar, I am trying to figure these engine numbers out. first of all. is a 318 the ford 302 and chevy 305 equivelent? and is a 360 the ford 351 and chevy 350 eq? the reason I ask is, that my 318 has 2 bad cyl and can still launch off the line like a rocket. has way more felt power than a chevy 305. as for 360's I just got one to replace the 318 with, and how much better is it over the 318? I dont was my :bootysha: kicked by some jerk with a camed 350, in a 75 long box pickup....:spiderma: we have almost every kind of classic chevy, and ford in this town. I am the only Mopar owner around here, and want to leave a lasting impression, if you know what I mean. So I guess my question really is, how does Mopar rate their engines? Not that I am going to race this thing when I am done, but I aint gonna take no poo off them other guys here in town either....8)
Chevy man needs a Mopar lesson
- Thread starter prestigue
- Start date
-
needsaresto
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2004
- Messages
- 7,603
- Reaction score
- 266
Hi and welcome to the real mans car club!
The 273,318,340 and 360 are all mopar small blocks.The 273,318 and 340 share the same stroke of 3.31.The 360 uses a 3.58 stroke.The 318 has a bigger bore than the 273 and again a bigger bore with the 340.
All small block mopars use a 6.13 inch con rod,something chevy guys have to pay for!Remember basic physics,the one about the guy trying to roll a boulder with a short stick?Picked up a long one(Torque multiplier) and the rock moved...
So the 360 has a much longer stroke and thus way more torque.It does suffer from low compression and smog gear however.Some versions like the E58 police special had a 340 cam 4bbl etc but still crap 8:1 compression.So you either gotta shave the heads or replace the pistons.Offset grinding the crank will bring the pistons up some too.
Anyways thats a very simple version.Pick up How to build small block mopars,How to hotrod small block mopars or chrysler engines.
The 273,318,340 and 360 are all mopar small blocks.The 273,318 and 340 share the same stroke of 3.31.The 360 uses a 3.58 stroke.The 318 has a bigger bore than the 273 and again a bigger bore with the 340.
All small block mopars use a 6.13 inch con rod,something chevy guys have to pay for!Remember basic physics,the one about the guy trying to roll a boulder with a short stick?Picked up a long one(Torque multiplier) and the rock moved...
So the 360 has a much longer stroke and thus way more torque.It does suffer from low compression and smog gear however.Some versions like the E58 police special had a 340 cam 4bbl etc but still crap 8:1 compression.So you either gotta shave the heads or replace the pistons.Offset grinding the crank will bring the pistons up some too.
Anyways thats a very simple version.Pick up How to build small block mopars,How to hotrod small block mopars or chrysler engines.
340mopar
Sorgermotorsports
There are two main reasons that the small Mopar has more power than the small Chevy and Ford, rod length and cylinders heads. The longer rod part was stated by needsaresto. The cylinder heads have multiple advantages, the valves are more towards the center of the bore and have less angle from the bore centerline helping flow by unshrouding the valves. Because of this valve angle the combustion chamber can be shallower and flatter yielding better combustion, this is why Mopars need less total advance.
Chuck
Chuck
DemonDave
Swollen Member
Remember: Unlike the 273, 318 and 340, the 360 is an externally balanced engine. Keep that in mind when doing the swap.
PS: Comparing the 318 with a Chevy 305 is very insulting... the 305 is a boat anchor! ;-)
PS: Comparing the 318 with a Chevy 305 is very insulting... the 305 is a boat anchor! ;-)
My bone stock 318 1970 barracuda could run with 350 chebby and get down the track faster then the 350 nova. Back in 1980 all I did was chill my gas and was not stupid on the line on a 1/8 mile track.
Maybe its the driver.
rofilel: Or electronic ign. or my gas cooler before the carb.
And it may have been my nice little 904 trans, not the big heavy 727.
Dang I mise that car. lots of trophies. The good old days.:happy10:
Maybe its the driver.
rofilel: Or electronic ign. or my gas cooler before the carb.And it may have been my nice little 904 trans, not the big heavy 727.
Dang I mise that car. lots of trophies. The good old days.:happy10:
The 360 also has a bigger rear main than the others.
Glow Worm
"Not Your Grandmaw's 318"
OUCH! I have two boat anchors, and they both work better than a Chivvy 305:toothy10:
You might get away with comparing a Chivvy 305 to a Mopar 225 slant 6, but then that might be a stretch. . . . . . for the Chivvy.
340mopar
Sorgermotorsports
As much as I hate to defend the 305 Chev because it is a steaming pile stock, I did have one in a '79 pickup that ran low 15's with bolt ons and a cam so if it is done right even a boat anchor can run.
Chuck
Chuck
Dang I really stepped in it now....ok so maybe I should have used 327 as the engine to compare. but it looked to me like Mopars smallest v8 was the 318, and that was close to the 305, to far from the cubes of a 283....I will try to remember that from now on. but FYI I had a 305 (tons of money in the "anchor") that would run circles around 350's and 351's I guess if you have enough money you can make a lawn mower haul :bootysha:.
To help answer the question in a different way;
The 318 was the basic transportation engine above the slant six. (/6)
It was notoofered with a 4bbl until late in it's life, the late 70's. It still wasn't a performer due to emmisions strappings.
You can equal the 318 to the same basic transportation engine as Ford 302 and Chevys 305/307/327 etc.....
The 360 was the same deal only larger. Used as a basic transport engine, it's debut was a 2bbl. but it 74 it did come with a 4bbl. Not a stela performer with emmisions on top or high compresion, but not bad.
You can equal this engine to the Frod 351 or Chevy 350 in non-performance terms. Just a bigger passenger car mover.
The 318 was the basic transportation engine above the slant six. (/6)
It was notoofered with a 4bbl until late in it's life, the late 70's. It still wasn't a performer due to emmisions strappings.
You can equal the 318 to the same basic transportation engine as Ford 302 and Chevys 305/307/327 etc.....
The 360 was the same deal only larger. Used as a basic transport engine, it's debut was a 2bbl. but it 74 it did come with a 4bbl. Not a stela performer with emmisions on top or high compresion, but not bad.
You can equal this engine to the Frod 351 or Chevy 350 in non-performance terms. Just a bigger passenger car mover.
Performance wise, on stock gear.
Carbs;
The T-Q is an excellent street strip carb. Tiny primarys for good mileage and throttle response. Huge secondarys for wild wide open throttle performance.
The come in 2 sizes. Generally accepted as 800 and 850 cfm. The difference is in the primarys. The smaller unit has 1.5 primarys.
Intakes;
The factory iron intake is actually a capable intake. Aftermarket intakes will rival and/or surpase any GM/Chevy intake.
Heads;
Factory heads vary in performance and abilty. Generally, the 318 like a high velocity/small port head for general performance. The 360 head would be next in-line and it's stock valve 1.88 int and 1.60 exhaust.
The beauty of the MoPar heads are as said the valves. They open on center @ er...(I may get this wrong and should know this) 18*'s. (No wonder Chevy guys complain)
Ported, stock heads in capable hands can exceed 275 cfm flow.
Oh, forgot to mention that the MoPar rockers are riding on a shaft. This is a very strong and stable set up. No guirdles needed. But an upgrade would be a good route over stock parts.
Stock bars bend under strees. MoPar, Crane, Comp, Harland Sharp, Huges engines, etc...sell hardend shafts. An upgrade to ethier mechanical rockers or rollers is a good idea. There a bit more expensive than what your used to paying. Being number 3 and among the last to get stuff made, never mind cheap. It's a worthy upgrade worth the price.
Blocks;
High nickel content is stock. Chevy doesn't put that much nickel into the blocks unless there race parts. Why pay more?
The crank sits mid way in the block and isn't anything specail. Mostly cast cranks are used in later years.
Do not let the 2 bolt main scare you. It is capable of high horse power. I myself would yeild @ 500 for longevity purposes. Another 100 is OK for racing since yearly inspection and refreshing is a probable out come of such intense levels of power.
Cam;
The Mopar cams push a lifter diameter of .904. This larger lifter means you can grab a more agresive profile without extra work needed to for another engine.
Some of solid grinds can be super close to a roller cams profile.
Old (Comando) vs. New (Magnum) engines;
The only thing to mention here is a Magnum engine. There heads oil like a chevys with hollow pushrods and there rockers are a 1.6 ratio instead of a 1.5 of the older engines. But there roller cam engines. A plus. Just watch out for the new lift ratios added lifting power. Do the math.
Also, Magnum engines do not have provisions for a mech. fuel pump.
Swapping parts between the Magnum engines and the older Comando engines is easy, but you will have to ask a few questions or do a search here on it. Theres minor pitfalls to watch out for.
Oiling mods will be needed for 6500+ rpm's and for a good long life if you need to be there for any extended amount of time.
Carbs;
The T-Q is an excellent street strip carb. Tiny primarys for good mileage and throttle response. Huge secondarys for wild wide open throttle performance.
The come in 2 sizes. Generally accepted as 800 and 850 cfm. The difference is in the primarys. The smaller unit has 1.5 primarys.
Intakes;
The factory iron intake is actually a capable intake. Aftermarket intakes will rival and/or surpase any GM/Chevy intake.
Heads;
Factory heads vary in performance and abilty. Generally, the 318 like a high velocity/small port head for general performance. The 360 head would be next in-line and it's stock valve 1.88 int and 1.60 exhaust.
The beauty of the MoPar heads are as said the valves. They open on center @ er...(I may get this wrong and should know this) 18*'s. (No wonder Chevy guys complain)
Ported, stock heads in capable hands can exceed 275 cfm flow.
Oh, forgot to mention that the MoPar rockers are riding on a shaft. This is a very strong and stable set up. No guirdles needed. But an upgrade would be a good route over stock parts.
Stock bars bend under strees. MoPar, Crane, Comp, Harland Sharp, Huges engines, etc...sell hardend shafts. An upgrade to ethier mechanical rockers or rollers is a good idea. There a bit more expensive than what your used to paying. Being number 3 and among the last to get stuff made, never mind cheap. It's a worthy upgrade worth the price.
Blocks;
High nickel content is stock. Chevy doesn't put that much nickel into the blocks unless there race parts. Why pay more?
The crank sits mid way in the block and isn't anything specail. Mostly cast cranks are used in later years.
Do not let the 2 bolt main scare you. It is capable of high horse power. I myself would yeild @ 500 for longevity purposes. Another 100 is OK for racing since yearly inspection and refreshing is a probable out come of such intense levels of power.
Cam;
The Mopar cams push a lifter diameter of .904. This larger lifter means you can grab a more agresive profile without extra work needed to for another engine.
Some of solid grinds can be super close to a roller cams profile.
Old (Comando) vs. New (Magnum) engines;
The only thing to mention here is a Magnum engine. There heads oil like a chevys with hollow pushrods and there rockers are a 1.6 ratio instead of a 1.5 of the older engines. But there roller cam engines. A plus. Just watch out for the new lift ratios added lifting power. Do the math.
Also, Magnum engines do not have provisions for a mech. fuel pump.
Swapping parts between the Magnum engines and the older Comando engines is easy, but you will have to ask a few questions or do a search here on it. Theres minor pitfalls to watch out for.
Oiling mods will be needed for 6500+ rpm's and for a good long life if you need to be there for any extended amount of time.
fstfish66
Well-Known Member
im intrested in hearing why or how you switched from GM,, to MOPAR ???
:cheers:
:cheers:
'64 Cuda
Well-Known Member
Can you really switch to Mopars? I thought it was kinda' like being left handed, you're born that way. :thumleft: Maybe you can switch, but you can't switch back! Yeah, that's the ticket! :hello1:
P.S. I'm a Mopar guy & I'm left handed.
:burnout:
Prestigue - Glad to see you've thrown that old bowtie away and improved your street wardrobe! I wouldn't be too concerned about leaving a lasting impression - your Mopar will do that. Back in the early '70s I had a 340 Dart Swinger that ran a best of 14.28 @98+mph at OCIR running NHRA G/Pure Stock class, this was with the stock 727 and a 3.23-geared non-SureGrip rearend on G70-14 Goodyear Polyglas tires. Being younger (obviously) and stupider (well, maybe not) then, my favorite 'street' memory was embarrasing a SS396 Chevelle one night on Whittier Blvd. All he could ask was 'What'cha got in that thing?' Believe me - he wasn't too happy when he found out it was a stock smallblock. And if you believe Chrysler's ads that it only had 275HP, then let's talk about this bridge I've got for sale.
Enjoy your smallblock and walk proud. Like you said, you've seen the light and been converted!
Enjoy your smallblock and walk proud. Like you said, you've seen the light and been converted!
1968FormulaS340
Well-Known Member
Stick around and take it all in. Mopar Muscle Magazine built a 400 hp.
318 with Magnum heads and bolt on parts! Don't discount your 318. it just needs freshened up! Not only does Mopar have some of the best designed
engines on the planet the Torqueflite trans is allmost as simple as a powerglide and most can handle the torque and HP of a 426 Hemi.
The 833 4 speed trannys were installed behind everything from slant 6's
to 426 Hemi's without changes other than imput and output shafts. The 8 3/4
rear end is a tough cookie (also installed behind Hemi and big wedge engines)
The Dana 60 is installed in many race cars when their Ford 9" blows. If you go to the drag strip pay close attention to how the Mopars leave the line.
I guarantee you most don't have anything fancier than Mopar Performance
super stock springs. These are a few more reasons why Mopars rule!!!
toolmanmike
318 with Magnum heads and bolt on parts! Don't discount your 318. it just needs freshened up! Not only does Mopar have some of the best designed
engines on the planet the Torqueflite trans is allmost as simple as a powerglide and most can handle the torque and HP of a 426 Hemi.
The 833 4 speed trannys were installed behind everything from slant 6's
to 426 Hemi's without changes other than imput and output shafts. The 8 3/4
rear end is a tough cookie (also installed behind Hemi and big wedge engines)
The Dana 60 is installed in many race cars when their Ford 9" blows. If you go to the drag strip pay close attention to how the Mopars leave the line.
I guarantee you most don't have anything fancier than Mopar Performance
super stock springs. These are a few more reasons why Mopars rule!!!
toolmanmike
thank you all for the Mopar 101. I am learning a ton. I don't really have a 100% solid reason for the switch, but here is as close as it gets. I have been building chevy cars since high school. I am from a really small town, so that was all we had to do. After I graduated, I left for the Marines, and never looked back. Still helping buddies build there cars on weekends. I then had a 1970 GTO Judge. (could have had a ton of money had I still had it) But one time I rode in this car that was just....how do you put it?....Bad Arse!! but could not for the life of me remember what it was.....Fast forward to a few weeks ago. I spent a ton of time building the "perfect SBC" hours of computer sims, months of machine work....weeks of assembly. then I had it all done. I have a 64 Nova 4 door sitting here so I slam the motor in her and break in the engine...then I decide I need a body as hellacious as the engine...off to ebay I go. When all of the sudden here appears a 1972 Dart Swinger.....the car looks just like the one I rode in while in the millitary. It is only 100 miles from me, and I am headed that way to look in Denver for a car. I decide to stop and check it out. It was about 10pm when I stop to see the car, and then it happened. I just....well about lost all control of bodily functions. I had told the wife I was going to bring home a chevy, but instead we winch the car to the trailer and load it up. I had used the guys computer to finalize the bid. He told me that it had sat for almost a year and that the gas was bad, so we just loaded onto a trailer and off back to the house minus one chevy, and plus one Dodge. I was in love at first sight. the interior is 100% and the body has only a small area of rust and some minor filling needed in the sail panels. the next morning I pump out all the old gas...(still looked fresh :scratch and filled with new gas. fired it up and it was missing like crazy. new cap, wires, plugs, rotor, installed a 4bbl I had here. Still a miss. compression check time.....2 completely dead holes...oil in cyl brings them back a bit.....3 holes with scored cyl. ukeleft: I am now on my 3rd used motor and still no avail...3 "hardcore" dodge owners in a row have took me. last one is my fault. I bought a 360 I heard run and watched the oil psi. got it home only to find 1/2 gallon of Lucas, 1/2 gallon of 15w40 rotella oil and 1 gallon+ of antifreeze. Oh yea and #1, and #2 rod journal and dug pretty bad and #6 cyl was is rusted and pitted very bad...so so far my engine experience is not very good. I have ordered a new B&M flex plate for the 360, and a new gasket set. but no usable motor yet. still on the prowl. Not going to give up. I love this car, and if I have to I will cut a hole in the floor and Flintstones the damn thing......:thumbup: BTW with the 2 dead holes in the 318 is still had a hell of a lot of pep, and would melt the tires pretty fast...cant wait till the 360 is in there.....someday
and filled with new gas. fired it up and it was missing like crazy. new cap, wires, plugs, rotor, installed a 4bbl I had here. Still a miss. compression check time.....2 completely dead holes...oil in cyl brings them back a bit.....3 holes with scored cyl. ukeleft: I am now on my 3rd used motor and still no avail...3 "hardcore" dodge owners in a row have took me. last one is my fault. I bought a 360 I heard run and watched the oil psi. got it home only to find 1/2 gallon of Lucas, 1/2 gallon of 15w40 rotella oil and 1 gallon+ of antifreeze. Oh yea and #1, and #2 rod journal and dug pretty bad and #6 cyl was is rusted and pitted very bad...so so far my engine experience is not very good. I have ordered a new B&M flex plate for the 360, and a new gasket set. but no usable motor yet. still on the prowl. Not going to give up. I love this car, and if I have to I will cut a hole in the floor and Flintstones the damn thing......:thumbup: BTW with the 2 dead holes in the 318 is still had a hell of a lot of pep, and would melt the tires pretty fast...cant wait till the 360 is in there.....somedayBTW I forgot to mention, that I dont feel that how those 3 arsehole "mopar" guru's got me, is how you are all are in general. I dont understand how they can call themselves "Mopar Nutz", "car buffs" or humans in general. Sorry if it sounded like I was refering to all "hardcore Mopar" guys and gals.
needsaresto
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2004
- Messages
- 7,603
- Reaction score
- 266
No offence taken!It's too bad you got took.Your right,most Mopar guys arent like that.I think it's just a symptom of todays philosophies.Caveat emptor seems to be in full effect no matter what you buy.If it were me,I'd build the one you have.Then you can be sure of depending on it.At least if you have a machinist you can depend on...
ME TO! Maybe we should start our own site "The Left handed Mopar Club!":headbang:
Mopars smallest V8 was the 273.
needsaresto
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2004
- Messages
- 7,603
- Reaction score
- 266
I wanna join too.Lefties are the only ones in thier right minds!!!
340mopar
Sorgermotorsports
Blues65, it is my understanding that there is no ex-Marines, once a Marine always a Marine.
Chuck
Chuck
adriver
Blazing Apostle
Hallelujah brethren. We have another convert.
This post reads a lot like another one recently: Built a Chevy motor and brought home a Mopar.
He also lived out in the sticks and was anticipating trouble finding a running used motor ,if I recall correctly.
I run a 318 cause ain't nothing going to touch it for reliability.
I dont think Chrysler ever built a bad engine.
Unlike most other manufacturers that had some dogs.
(Something about a 350 Diesel?)
Ever hear the one about the fellow that wanted to be buried in his Dodge truck?
He said there wasnt a hole yet that the truck hadnt been able to get him out of.
Marine huh? Maybe we could say that relative to GM, Chrysler built A few good cars.
(Quality, not quantity.)
This post reads a lot like another one recently: Built a Chevy motor and brought home a Mopar.
He also lived out in the sticks and was anticipating trouble finding a running used motor ,if I recall correctly.
I run a 318 cause ain't nothing going to touch it for reliability.
I dont think Chrysler ever built a bad engine.
Unlike most other manufacturers that had some dogs.
(Something about a 350 Diesel?)
Ever hear the one about the fellow that wanted to be buried in his Dodge truck?
He said there wasnt a hole yet that the truck hadnt been able to get him out of.
Marine huh? Maybe we could say that relative to GM, Chrysler built A few good cars.
(Quality, not quantity.)
-
