Chrysler History

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Lance Lot Link

Don't Monkey with IT!
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I'm kinda new on here, but I'm thinking about compiling a Chrysler history from former employees, like myself. Anyone former on here is welcome to PM me with anecdotal experiences or better yet factual stuff. It will be a long process and many employees are already long gone. I spent 34.5 years at Mopar at 6-7 different plants, starting in early 70's. I have to find some guys from Lynch Rd., Hamtramck Assy. etc. because I'm still Detroit area-I could ask to interview them. I was very fortunate, the WWII guys were running the place when I hired in. No offense intended to other veterans! Any advice is appreciated if constructive.
 
Someone asked in another thread about three painted digits on a transmission casing. This number should correspond to the last three digits on the broadcast or "Build" sheet. It was likely a seven digit number and these were the last three. So why paint them on though? Because one could easily identify that transmission when receiving it, off the truck, and also by a production worker, on the assembly line. I worked there and we nearly always spoke in the last three digits. The engine tags, later, on the valve covers had the full part number AND the last three were larger for a reason. So if the last three were 890, then if I were running out of 890's, I would tell managers that "I need 890's". I could check the broadcast sheets to see when we would run out, if the sheets were coming regular. But it was too late to stop the process. There were nightly inventory counts so those "890's" were supposed to be on the premises and the broadcast group, aka. scheduling, assumed they were available, hence the ticket. Missing an engine or transmission was a big deal because these vehicles were pushed off the end of the main line before the rolls and an engine installed in the repair hole. Lots of important people "the suits", came out of their cube farm or window offices to find out why.
 
In another thread someone was asking about the stenciled 4 speed transmission number, which got me thinking a ways back. I handled engines and not transmissions but I had occasion to visit the transmission to engine station. I was at Dodge Main for a short time, then laid-off. Then picked up at another Assembly Plant, then another. I can't recall a lot of detail but Dodge Main was very inefficient. Actually, they all were. I'm wondering now when/where/how the VIN was stamped on the transmission and the engines. I know both VIN were stamped at the Assembly Plant, when I was there. The engines sat right side up and the hoist man never looked for a VIN number before hoisting it by the intake manifold with the proper engine hook and putting it in a moving engine buck on a conveyor. So he wouldn't see the VIN number by the pan rail anyway, if it was there (and it wasn't yet). Each "Engine" build sheet was taped to the engine buck. Hoist man looked at build sheet and engine part number on tag, (later # was put on valve cover).The build sheet for one vehicle was broadcast all over the plant for transmissions, seats, tires, axles, maybe 25 places. There was a machine at every one of these places that printed the sheets. There were six 440 engines (from Trenton Engine), in each rack. Same with B engines. From Chrysler Windsor or Mound Engine 4 engines per rack. Six cylinder engines, 4 per rack. Later 5 per, from Mexico.
I know the transmission paint number was applied at New Process or Kokomo or whatever Chrysler plant made them. The stenciled number would face up so it could be seen before the transmission was hoisted from the rack for install. The VIN number could be stamped on the trans., in the rack. The 4speed case number was likely spray painted at the foundry, (or at New Process before assembling the trans) as the case stood on its nose. The line speed was 50-75 vehicles an hour everywhere Assembly I worked.
I can't remember where (in the plant) someone stamped the VIN on the engine. It makes the most sense to stamp the engine VIN and transmission VIN at the point that they meet the chassis, or the body - at "body drop", or the station where the engine/transmission was raised into the vehicle. If the VIN numbers were stamped on the transmission pad and engine pan rail just before where the engine and transmission are married, in the plant, the VIN numbers for engine and transmission could be checked to the build sheet here. This was a sub-assembly line NOT one of the Main Lines, so the line could be stopped and out-of-sequence issues resolved. If a Main Line stopped, heads could roll. Non-union salaried could be busted down to Private. We drank heavily after work if the Main Line had stopped, our ulcers were so thirsty. Sometimes we met whoever got fired at the bar after work, he'd usually been there a few hours already.
 
Interesting insider info..... and I give you a thumbs up for putting yet even more information out there about the history of the brand and the people who built them that all of us who having running through our veins.... for which there is no cure. Just feed the curiosity helps ... I see these said codes on some original cars and those same codes (In the correct grease pencil colors and places they go) being put back on rebuilds done on "Graveyard Cars" although Mark Worman is about 3/4 squirrel headed he is one smart dude when it comes to Mopar's and Mopar history. Its a contest between him and another guy named "Tony" who is on Marks same level who is on the show from time to time.
Thanks for sharing and looking forward to more... Texas Red
 
Like Bartles and James, Thank You for your Support. I know very little about how to build a vehicle to go fast, or building a high-performance engine. That's why FABO is held in high regard, especially by me and by others, because the experts on here share freely about their experience and solutions to automotive problems. I do have 1st hand information on mass production techniques and automation, especially PLC, robotics and spot welding, but two of these weren't developed and used until the 1980's and beyond. So, I want to add what I can to the forum. I can't match anyone here regarding speed or power or even intellect, but I'll keep trying. Was always the little guy trying to catch you, look in your mirror on the last lap, I'm right there waiting for a mistake/breakdown, so don't let up - You Be Solly.
 
More Chrysler History, On the Plant floor:
I was wondering the other day how hard it would be to sneak a different engine, at the factory, into your dealer ordered vehicle. I know it was done because I saw it and did it BUT I did not sneak a Hemi into a vehicle to replace a, say, 318 or any A engine. I know that back then I could switch tags on the engine and get it on the engine sub assembly line. After that I would have to follow it at least to the Main assembly line. If it got in the vehicle it would likely be fine except rhe vehicle may go to a repair hole for not passing a buy-off by inspection. Maybe a 340 engine instead of a 318 4bbl. could happen. I would say someone would need the assistance of a handful of people at least. It would be difficult to get the vehicle down the Main line without someone noticing. Especially the Hemi. If someone ordered a B, RB engine it would be much easier. Maybe a 440 The dealer assistance might have tripped me up but since I was local to most Chrysler plants I'm sure that I could find someone to pass the vehicle inspection at the dealer. Actually, the easiest way was to pickup your vehicle from the dealer and use plant connections to bring the vehicle into the plant for an engine swap. Most of those were done on 3rd shift in the repair holes near the rolls. You could buy anything or do anything in the plants back then with $$$. Sometimes $$$$.$$
 
Once again I am amazed at the insides of things that COULD have/ did take place. I guess management would eventually just write it off as someone's honest mistake and brought the wrong engine up for that car........... I suppose the Power steering pump, smog pump etc could have mounted up differently on a 340 as opposed to a 318.....but then I am sure at the motor install station they had any bracket available at their fingertips....No matter the engine. The Hemi would have been something to take notice about as the Elephant would take very special brackets etc for sure.
I am sure the line manager liked a well oiled machine without any hiccups which affected his/her bonus at the end of the year.....if the truth be known. Production numbers did matter highly to the share holders.....but the guy punching a clock he got paid the same...it was just another shift to them.
Did I say thanks for sharing that history.... It just opens the door for what else could have happened .......???????
 
I am wondering how I can tell what K member that I have. And where it was made? I have two Dusters that I can compare, a 1970 and 1972.
I can offer some insight as to how the K members were manufactured because I helped to maintain the process to manufacture them that used for some, but I'm not sure which vehicle the K members that we made were used in.
Generally, the individual parts of a K-member (k-m) were stamped out in a "heavy"
stamping plant. There were more than three plants before consolidation but afterward there was Twinsburg, Warren and Sterling Stamping Plants in the 1980's and beyond. This is not to say there was not some satellite operations near a vehicle assembly plant, or "re-strike" presses in an assembly plant metal shop. Regardless, the parts (of a k-m), were brought from the stamping side of the stamping plant, to the sub-assembly side and welded together before shipment. Even today, there are these hybrid plants, that stamp on one side and sub-assembly on the other, at Ford, GM, and Chrysler. Forget Stellantis, I'll never call the Corporation that!
The welding process, where I was, consisted of three or more presses with a transfer "shuttle" to advance each part. At the end of these presses were the welders, using hand-held manual wire welders, to finish the process. All this was prior to any robotic welding, which we installed later, in the late 1980's and currently.
Weld quality was checked by "weld destruct testing". A maintenance person or an inspector would use a hammer and a chisel(still have it), to physically rip a panel, part, or k-m apart. Very difficult on thicker metal without an air tool. After "weld destruct", the welds were measured in two directions with calipers and averaged the two. The weld was called a "nugget". If a nugget was pulled from one side (part) or another of sufficient size, it passed inspection. If it was undersize, it could be grown to size with more current. If no nugget at all, it needed at least time and maybe more current.
Problems with welding: #1-Fit-up. If parts didn't conform to each other before or during welding, 5% more force was allowed per Chryser Standard, to compensate. Just remember, when resistance spot welding, adding force may require adding more current.
#2- Dirt, drawing compound, grease. This comes from another process (stamping) or poor storage. These can comtaminate the welding electrodes and require changing them to fix. The electrodes are a copper alloy, copper is soft, and easily accepts harder materials to be embedded.
#3- Off location. Most common welds off location are edge welds.
#4- Missing welds. Surprise, some welds were allowed to be missed per Chrysler standards. IIRC, no end welds should be missed, no two in row welds, no "Federal Welds" missed. I have the Standards somewhere here. I helped develop the one for Aluminum welding and corrected the early robotic standards.
Spot inspection consisted of looking at the spot welds and counting them. I could tell a bad weld sometimes but I never blessed a weld as good without some form of test. It can't honestly be done, the blessing that is, but after changing the electrodes on third shift, at 6am, we used to say "If they're Golden They're Holden". The welds had a Golden hue from fresh copper electrodes so we would say they are good.
Resistance Spot Welding has been around for many years but has changed dramatically since then. The most dramatic change is the use of inverters. This, along with other technology, enabled a robot to carry a welding "gun" by lightening it enough to meet robotic payload requirements. The 75-90 KVA transformers were heavy. Even a 210Kg payload Fanuc robot would struggle to meet cycle time with one on it's arm. Don't believe it? Then air up your tires, go to Weight Watchers or Zumba and pick up passengers. How fast can you go now? Then go home and change your shocks.
Before that the guns were all "hanging" guns or hydraulic guns in presses like the k-m line.
K member Line function: The parts were loaded the first press in line by the operator and after the palm buttons were pressed, all the bottom presses went up (hydraulically with a Rotac) to meet the welding guns at the top of the press. There were stationary electrodes under the parts and the upper weld guns were extended at this time to pass current through said electrodes and create a spot weld. The shuttle had returned from delivering a part (when forward) so when all presses then went down, shuttle went forward, and the operator could reload the first press, and process continued. The welders after the presses then seam or butt welded the k-m before shipping. Lots of smoke, hot parts, and even some phosgene gas to breathe.
Some welds that I observed were termed "suspect welds". Misalignment, of the two electrode caps of the weld guns could create a suspect weld. We used two Main size caps, maybe 5/8" and 3/4" electrodes for spot welding, they were round nose, called "B" caps. On this line though, at this time, flat caps were commonly used because it was easier to correct electrode tip misalignment, with a flat cap. A flat cap required more current to create a good weld, but it helped to prevent distortion in the metal when the mis-aligned weld guns were extended to weld.
As far as the weld controller was concerned, a minimum of three instructions were needed to be programmed to create a weld.
They were called: Squeeze, Weld, and Hold.
Squeeze: Was a long used term for the time period that the parts were pushed into contact with each other. Force was used (and measured between the electrodes) to squeeze the parts together for welding. I never used less than 450 lbs. of Force in forty years of automotive welding But, proper Force is determined by metal type, thickness and coating, primarily. Altering any of these three can necessitate changing Force settings, But these settings are not programmed into a weld controller.
The Weld instruction is only a time period (of passing current) and of current. I never used less than 6-8000 amps for automotive cold-rolled steel of light thickness, like hood or door "skins". I believe the highest that I ever asked from a weld controller was 60,000 amps, but that was much later, in 2005, with an inverter, and the electrodes were nearly destroyed by then due to the amount of welds on them.
The Hold instruction was simply a time period to wait for the weld to solidify from a plastic state. These time periods were programmed in "line cycles". So, 10 cycles (10*), equals 1/6 of 60 cycles per second. Nowadays, for the last 20 years at least. we program in milliseconds and no one even remembers "line cycles".
Maybe next Chrysler history could be Plant shootings, robberies, truck hi-jackings and crazy employee activities? It was a wacko place to work from 1960's to 2007 for certain. When I started there were people who worked there before WWII. They mentored me when I hired in. I was looking for a Father figure anyway. Those guys were an entirely different group of people. Remember what your parents or Grandparents were like?
 
Found these pictures on the FakeBook. I don't think that I'm breaking any copyright or other rules, so I'm posting them. If Im arrested for this please bring cigarettes to prison for me. I think I can trade them. I'll try to credit the poster and I'm posting some relevant comments too.

Trenton Engine hot/cold test area. I can see that they're on a overhead chain conveyor. I can't really tell if the big Blocks are passcar, RV, or truck. But, they look like passcar to me. Truck oil pan sump was in back, RV in front, so? I seem tired recall truck exhaust manifolds exited center only, also.
 

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