CLUTCH/CLUTCH DISK what r you running ?
- Thread starter cawley
- Start date
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Not racing, just playin.
382 HP Dart, w 3:55s.
New A833 from Brewers, they recommended McLeod, so went with the basic set up.
382 HP Dart, w 3:55s.
New A833 from Brewers, they recommended McLeod, so went with the basic set up.
matthon
Well-Known Member
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- Aug 29, 2008
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383 4 speed, just bought this: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctf-kdf693963
And the matching flywheel.
Second time running this same clutch, got the last one at least 10 years ago. Putting in a fresh trans so figured replace it all, but I wasn't having issues.
And the matching flywheel.
Second time running this same clutch, got the last one at least 10 years ago. Putting in a fresh trans so figured replace it all, but I wasn't having issues.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
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CenterForce diaphragm, and
Factory 340 disc straight from the dealer.
I tried the CF-II disc and it was a ripper allrightee, but I found it too harsh, in a streeter, (367 cuber), for a DailyDriver.
The 340 discs usually blow up before they wear out, but they give plenty of warning. They usually puke the springs out and start vibrating. If I wait too long the hub tears out. Occasionally she sheds her linings in patches.
I used to barely get one summer out of them, but I got older........ and became nicer to my stuff.
I really like the diaphragm.
But it does have a hiccup. Occasionally the flyweights stick or don't all return to the same place, and it vibrates just a lil. I mean just a lil. A blip or two in neutral and she settles right down.
One of the things I like about the diaphragm is this; As you may know, driving an A833 at very slow speed can be an adventure. With 3.91s and a 2.66low, your slowest speed is likely to be 5.4mph @700rpm. What do you do when circumstances require you to drive slower? Yeah that's right you toe the clutch. Just try that with a 3-finger 3400 PP.
The Diaphragm makes this a breeze.
The other thing I like is it's modulate-ability. Is that even a word,lol. Ok I hyphenated it; that looks reasonable.
Taking off in first gear, is not always a rev-it-up-and-dump-it, deal.
And I don't like when my car sounds like an old Mustang, slipping it out half of forever-time.
Lots of times you will be in a circumstance ,like in traffic, slipping that darn thing, and the diaphragm just makes it so easy.
I'm 67 now so this becoming more important,lol, than it was 15/20 years ago when I first installed it.
Edit:
You didn't say about your cylinder pressure or cam size.
If your engine runs herky-jerky at idle and in gear like they often do, a heavier flywheel tends to smooth it out a bit, as does retarded timing. My 367 has a 3.09x3.55=10.97 starter gear, and IMO it is barely adequate. I have run both lots more and lots less; but I like the 3.55s so the 3.09 was the best I could do. The problem goes back to slow driving. If your engine gets too jerky at 700rpm in gear with 2.66x3.91=10.40 (5.4 mph), the heavy flywheel will help tame it.
The other thing I like about my heavy flywheel, is it makes my combo a blip-it-and-go deal. At zero mph, I can blip the throttle to put a bit of energy into the flywheel, and then let the clutch out partway, which makes a soft launch. Then as soon as the car is moving I feed it clutch, and once it's out, I can feed it throttle, and you'd never know it was a manual trans. My engine will idle down to 550 in gear (4mph). It will pull itself across the parking lot an hard flat level ground.
This engine makes at or just over 180 psi, and runs a 230@.050 cam, and 14* of idle timing. I do this by retarding the timing from my seat with a dash-mounted, dial-back timing device, to about 5*. This softens the individual power pulses to reduce the bucking to ~500rpm, so I make sure the engine stays at 550ish.And the flywheel smooths it right out.
At one time, during the planning stages, I had the idea to try and run an aluminum flywheel, but when the engine worked so nice like this, I set that on the back-burner.That was 1999, and as it turns out, I just never re-visited it.
With the CF-II disc, and 295/50-tires tho,I recommend 1350 U-joints.
Factory 340 disc straight from the dealer.
I tried the CF-II disc and it was a ripper allrightee, but I found it too harsh, in a streeter, (367 cuber), for a DailyDriver.
The 340 discs usually blow up before they wear out, but they give plenty of warning. They usually puke the springs out and start vibrating. If I wait too long the hub tears out. Occasionally she sheds her linings in patches.
I used to barely get one summer out of them, but I got older........ and became nicer to my stuff.
I really like the diaphragm.
But it does have a hiccup. Occasionally the flyweights stick or don't all return to the same place, and it vibrates just a lil. I mean just a lil. A blip or two in neutral and she settles right down.
One of the things I like about the diaphragm is this; As you may know, driving an A833 at very slow speed can be an adventure. With 3.91s and a 2.66low, your slowest speed is likely to be 5.4mph @700rpm. What do you do when circumstances require you to drive slower? Yeah that's right you toe the clutch. Just try that with a 3-finger 3400 PP.
The Diaphragm makes this a breeze.
The other thing I like is it's modulate-ability. Is that even a word,lol. Ok I hyphenated it; that looks reasonable.
Taking off in first gear, is not always a rev-it-up-and-dump-it, deal.
And I don't like when my car sounds like an old Mustang, slipping it out half of forever-time.
Lots of times you will be in a circumstance ,like in traffic, slipping that darn thing, and the diaphragm just makes it so easy.
I'm 67 now so this becoming more important,lol, than it was 15/20 years ago when I first installed it.
Edit:
You didn't say about your cylinder pressure or cam size.
If your engine runs herky-jerky at idle and in gear like they often do, a heavier flywheel tends to smooth it out a bit, as does retarded timing. My 367 has a 3.09x3.55=10.97 starter gear, and IMO it is barely adequate. I have run both lots more and lots less; but I like the 3.55s so the 3.09 was the best I could do. The problem goes back to slow driving. If your engine gets too jerky at 700rpm in gear with 2.66x3.91=10.40 (5.4 mph), the heavy flywheel will help tame it.
The other thing I like about my heavy flywheel, is it makes my combo a blip-it-and-go deal. At zero mph, I can blip the throttle to put a bit of energy into the flywheel, and then let the clutch out partway, which makes a soft launch. Then as soon as the car is moving I feed it clutch, and once it's out, I can feed it throttle, and you'd never know it was a manual trans. My engine will idle down to 550 in gear (4mph). It will pull itself across the parking lot an hard flat level ground.
This engine makes at or just over 180 psi, and runs a 230@.050 cam, and 14* of idle timing. I do this by retarding the timing from my seat with a dash-mounted, dial-back timing device, to about 5*. This softens the individual power pulses to reduce the bucking to ~500rpm, so I make sure the engine stays at 550ish.And the flywheel smooths it right out.
At one time, during the planning stages, I had the idea to try and run an aluminum flywheel, but when the engine worked so nice like this, I set that on the back-burner.That was 1999, and as it turns out, I just never re-visited it.
With the CF-II disc, and 295/50-tires tho,I recommend 1350 U-joints.
Last edited:
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Get an aluminum flywheel. The clutch will need a clutch tamer unless you want to spend the money on an adjustable clutch or you never are going put bite on it.
I was throwing around the idea of an aluminum flywheel but I was told they don't last as long & ive heard O you don't want that for the street
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Yeah, that’s crap. With your stroke and gear aluminum will be better.
A week ago today I listened to a seminar with Paul Lee who owns McLeod, Jim Oberhofer who is Lee’s crew chief on his fuel funny car and some other dude that owned some company that does auto trans and converter junk.
I was STUNNED that Lee was telling everyone he will NOT use an aluminum FW on a street car. That is just silly. He must be the only clutch guy (I should say serious clutch guy) that says that. I know Cale Aronson says aluminum, so does Rob Youngblood of Advanced Clutches. Before Tim Hyatt died, he said aluminum too.
Today’s engines make more power and torque than even 20 years ago it’s crazy. To take that heavy flywheel and beat the crap out of the tire and chassis with it it crazy.
If you are never going to beat on it, then maybe a steel flywheel is ok. I’ve driven both and I never use a steel FW.
Im going to assume you have a 2.66 first gear, and with your 3.91 screws in the rear you have a 10.4:1 first gear. If you had, say a 3.23 screw in the back you’d only be at 8.59:1 and that’s a big difference. If you have a 2.44 low with your 3.91’s you’ll be at 9.54:1 and with your stroke that would be ok too.
Just my 2 cents. I always say go with your gut. If I’m your gut you aren’t 100% comfortable with the aluminum FW, do the steel. You have to do what you feel comfortable with. Doesn’t matter what the clutch people or some internet hack (like me) tells you.
Your gut will almost never give you the wrong decision.
Edit: I forgot to mention every aluminum FW since probably the early 1970’s or even earlier has some type of heat shield in it. See some bronze heat shields but those are pretty old. 99.9% of them have a steel insert in them. They are pretty much indestructible and will last the life of the clutch, and then your surface them and run them some more. Again, it’s your car so go with your gut. Neither decision is wrong.
My dad & my uncles drag raced a 350ci big block mopar engine It was a 4speed & they used a aluminum FW & I have it. I just think it would be awesome to run it knowing where it came from. The only thing im not to sure about is the balance. Is it balanced for my 360 stroker. Can I get it balanced. Ill have to dig it out & post some pictures of it.
dodgedifferent2
Well-Known Member
I believe I run this one with my passon performance hemi overdrive (18 spline input) been about 4 years.
Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch Kits DF175810
I run a 340 stroked to 418 with w5 heads with a hurst ram rod shifter. Never ran on strip yet but expected hp is 500 - 600 ish
Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch Kits DF175810
I run a 340 stroked to 418 with w5 heads with a hurst ram rod shifter. Never ran on strip yet but expected hp is 500 - 600 ish
matthon
Well-Known Member
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Might it be this one?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctf-df810739
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctf-df810739
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
dodgedifferent2
Well-Known Member
One is low horsepower and one was high. I forget which one is what
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
If you are externally balanced you can balance that FW to what you have. Unless you have a cast crank I doubt you are externally balanced. But you never know.
it has the factory balancer on it all 360s were externally balanced right ?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
360’s are externally balanced if they have a cast crank. With your 3.79 crank I assumed it was forged and unless you have the bobweight of a diesel it should internally balance.
the balancer on it looks to be the original style
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
The damper is definitely for external balance.
Id pass on that flywheel. That is cast and may be ok, but I’d rather have billet. Just safer IMO and ima chicken when it comes to stuff like that.
Id pass on that flywheel. That is cast and may be ok, but I’d rather have billet. Just safer IMO and ima chicken when it comes to stuff like that.
yea me also just an idea
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
BTW, I forgot to mention the point that the FW you have pictured could very well be used for an external balance.
All the balance holes that big and that far from the centerline is actually a decent bit of weight removed. You could mount the FW in a mandrel and spin it on a balanced and see how if it’s out of balance and where or if those holes made it zero balance.
A quick check too kinda see the same thing is to just hold it up to the crank flange, line up the holes of the crank and FW and see if the balance holes are on the same side as the rear counterweight or opposite of it.
If the holes are on the same side as the counterweight it’s probably just to get it or the crank with the FW on balanced on that end. Why the weight wasn’t removed from the crank counter weight I can’t say.
If the holes are opposite of the counterweight that’s likely used as external balance. The counterweight didn’t have enough mass for the bobweight so they made up for that by making the FW literally out of balance. That’s external balance.
If the holes are neither lined up with or opposite of the counterweight, then it’s probably just balance holes.
I hope this makes sense and isn’t confusing you.
yep my dad & uncles used it on there drag car they ran a 350 mopar big block no one is around any more to ask questions
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