Cold Case w/ electric fan vs factory fan and shroud

[Tylinol]

Hi everyone. I've got a '69 Barracuda 318 that's been sitting for a long time. I got it yard driving yesterday, and it overheats when idling for a while after a drive, which I expected.

Obviously, there are a ton of things that need to be tested and fixed on the cooling system from sitting so long. But I need to do something about the radiator for sure.

It's got a 26" radiator from a 318 B-body in it right now, with no shroud. It's originally an AC car and the condenser is still in place. To me, it makes so sense to put any work/money into the B-body radiator setup since AFAIK there's no shroud to fit it anyway. So, I've been looking at Cold Case radiators.

Since I have no shroud, the price of just the cold case radiator (MOP756A) plus a factory fan shroud vs the radiator with the electric 16" fan kit (MOP756AK) is basically a wash. So, what are the pros and cons of either setup?

 

[72bluNblu]

Before you start throwing money at it you should figure out what’s wrong. There are 26” A-body fan shrouds, the 73+ A’s did have a 26” radiator as an option. A 318 should have no issues with overheating with a factory 26” radiator if everything is working as it should. You could have any number of issues, faulty or missing thermostat, mismatched pulleys, a 6 blade water pump with pulleys for an 8 blade or vice-versa, incorrect timing or fuel mixture, etc, etc, etc.

Switching to an electric fan and doing it right means wiring in fan relays, some kind of controller for the fan, and being able to pull enough amps to power a fan large enough to cool the car. That’s not a small thing, a stand alone electric fan needs to pull at least 2,500-3,000 CFM to keep the car cool. That means a starting amp draw of close to 30 amps or more. Done incorrectly that's more than enough to fry the stock wiring harness, and some of the alternators for these cars were only 46 amps. No more than 60. Half that to the fan doesn't leave much for other stuff.

And those radiator and fan kits are almost always bad news. That flat fan shroud is a bad design, it's just the cheapest way to do it. The fans specs aren’t published. It doesn’t even say if it’s a one or two speed fan, how many CFM it pulls, how many amps. It’s just a cheap add on from a company that builds radiators, not electric fans. Most of the electric 16" aftermarket fans DO NOT pull enough cfm to be a stand alone replacement.

I run electric fans on my car, I'm not saying that's a bad idea by itself. But most people fail in running electric fans because they just toss some old fan on there, don't wire it or control it well and are then surprised when it doesn't work. If you have the 26" radiator and it doesn't leak, you can get a shroud for it. If it needs to be rodded out that's a lot cheaper than a new radiator and the conversion to an electric fan. And there's no reason a mechanical fan and the factory radiator shouldn't be able to cool a 318.

I run dual speed, dual electric fans from a Ford Contour V6 on a 26" champion radiator to cool my 400+ hp 340. It works great, and cost less than the ColdCase radiator by itself. Not saying that's what you need, but you can see what it takes to do an electric conversion correctly at least, it's not just a "bolt on" deal. Relays, fan controller, 100 amp alternator, amp gauge bypass to keep from frying the bulkhead connector, lots of heavy duty wiring, etc... [URL="https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/my-new-74-duster-or-why-i-need-a-project-like-a-hole-in-the-head.198098/page-3#post-1970313646"]My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head[/URL]

 

[Tylinol]

Very good points - I suppose if the electric setup is not necessarily a big gain and could potentially cause wiring headaches then I'd rather stick with a mechanical fan and factory shroud setup. But, given that my radiator is for a B-body, wouldn't the mounting holes, or the location of the fan relative to the opening in the shroud, be different?

 

[Ccas]

Yep! First thing is that you need to determine why a 26" radiator is not cooling that 318. That should be plenty. If it turns out to be a overtired clogged up radiator, then you pretty safely look to a new radiator to solve the problem. But if the radiator doesn't have tubes cut out and/or signs of being clogged, you have to look elsewhere first.

That being said, you are correct in your observation about electric vs mechanical being about the same price if you include the shroud. What most people don't know is that the cooling aspects of both are also a wash in most situations. While I'd love to have you choose a Cold Case kit, that may not be necessarily the best solution for your needs.
Since cost and function are equal, it really narrows it down to just a few other factors.
1. original look and style vs hi tech look and style.
2. electric will free up a several HP because no drag on the belt to spin the fan. That in turn also lowers the temps a bit more.
3. If there is plans for a pulley system down the road, you will NEED an electric fan setup.
4. Sound! Electric fans make a unique sound. Some like it, some don't! So keep that in mind.

That's pretty much it!

 

[72bluNblu]

Very good points - I suppose if the electric setup is not necessarily a big gain and could potentially cause wiring headaches then I'd rather stick with a mechanical fan and factory shroud setup. But, given that my radiator is for a B-body, wouldn't the mounting holes, or the location of the fan relative to the opening in the shroud, be different?

Some of the 26” radiators had similar sized cores. There were versions that were taller, but they wouldn’t fit your A body with the hood closed. So, more than likely you will have no issues using a 73+ 26” A-body shroud on your current radiator. That will of course depend on how your radiator was mounted, because clearly your car has been modified. But a later A-body shroud for a 26” A-body radiator is where I would start.

There are advantages and disadvantages of going to electric fans. They can be a better option for a lot of applications, I love the electric fans on my car. My point was that installing electric fans correctly requires more work than most people realize, they’re not something you just slap on and have work properly. You need to asses both the cooling requirements of your car AND the electrical capabilities, and make sure your fans and your car are set up correctly for both.

In your case, I would still figure out why you have an overheating issue first. Even without a shroud a 26” radiator should probably handle a stock 318 if everything is working the way it should. Before I bought anything mechanical or electric I would tune up that engine and investigate why it’s running hot.

 

[christmas53]

Some of the 26” radiators had similar sized cores. There were versions that were taller, but they wouldn’t fit your A body with the hood closed. So, more than likely you will have no issues using a 73+ 26” A-body shroud on your current radiator. That will of course depend on how your radiator was mounted, because clearly your car has been modified. But a later A-body shroud for a 26” A-body radiator is where I would start.

There are advantages and disadvantages of going to electric fans. They can be a better option for a lot of applications, I love the electric fans on my car. My point was that installing electric fans correctly requires more work than most people realize, they’re not something you just slap on and have work properly. You need to asses both the cooling requirements of your car AND the electrical capabilities, and make sure your fans and your car are set up correctly for both.

In your case, I would still figure out why you have an overheating issue first. Even without a shroud a 26” radiator should probably handle a stock 318 if everything is working the way it should. Before I bought anything mechanical or electric I would tune up that engine and investigate why it’s running hot.

You need to check the distance I just bought a cold case with the electric fan and did not have enough distance for it to fit. You need at least 6 3/4 inches for it to fit or a little more had to send mine back to jegs.

 

[KosmicKuda]

@72bluNblu
Can you post pictures of your Champion/Contour fan combo?
I need a cooling system for my 5.7 project. No fan belts on these things.

I agree a good factory radiator and fan will keep a 318 cool. I'd drive my 68 318 with factory cooling anywhere in the country. These things have worked for decades. Why all of a sudden are they no good?

 

[72bluNblu]

You need to check the distance I just bought a cold case with the electric fan and did not have enough distance for it to fit. You need at least 6 3/4 inches for it to fit or a little more had to send mine back to jegs.

Dang, that's a lot. The '95-2000 Ford Contour set up is only about 3.5" deep at it's widest point, which is to the back of the motors. The rest of the shroud is about 3". With my 3 core Champion 26" radiator and the Contour fans the back of the fan motor is about 6" from the radiator support. Even it probably wouldn't fit if the fan motors were inline with the water pump pulley. Fortunately, with the dual fan set up the motors aren't centered so the deepest part is offset from the pulley. Something else to consider when looking at a particular fan arrangement.

@72bluNblu
Can you post pictures of your Champion/Contour fan combo?
I need a cooling system for my 5.7 project. No fan belts on these things.

I agree a good factory radiator and fan will keep a 318 cool. I'd drive my 68 318 with factory cooling anywhere in the country. These things have worked for decades. Why all of a sudden are they no good?

I have a write up and links to the parts in my build thread. I use the 95-2000 Contour V6 fans, which pull about 3,000 cfm on the low speed and ~5,000 cfm on high speed. I use a Dakota Digital controller and a pair of fan relays. I used goldduster318's instructions to guide my install, which should be attached at the bottom as a PDF.

My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head

 

[famous bob]

Before you start throwing money at it you should figure out what’s wrong. There are 26” A-body fan shrouds, the 73+ A’s did have a 26” radiator as an option. A 318 should have no issues with overheating with a factory 26” radiator if everything is working as it should. You could have any number of issues, faulty or missing thermostat, mismatched pulleys, a 6 blade water pump with pulleys for an 8 blade or vice-versa, incorrect timing or fuel mixture, etc, etc, etc.

Switching to an electric fan and doing it right means wiring in fan relays, some kind of controller for the fan, and being able to pull enough amps to power a fan large enough to cool the car. That’s not a small thing, a stand alone electric fan needs to pull at least 2,500-3,000 CFM to keep the car cool. That means a starting amp draw of close to 30 amps or more. Done incorrectly that's more than enough to fry the stock wiring harness, and some of the alternators for these cars were only 46 amps. No more than 60. Half that to the fan doesn't leave much for other stuff.

And those radiator and fan kits are almost always bad news. That flat fan shroud is a bad design, it's just the cheapest way to do it. The fans specs aren’t published. It doesn’t even say if it’s a one or two speed fan, how many CFM it pulls, how many amps. It’s just a cheap add on from a company that builds radiators, not electric fans. Most of the electric 16" aftermarket fans DO NOT pull enough cfm to be a stand alone replacement.

I run electric fans on my car, I'm not saying that's a bad idea by itself. But most people fail in running electric fans because they just toss some old fan on there, don't wire it or control it well and are then surprised when it doesn't work. If you have the 26" radiator and it doesn't leak, you can get a shroud for it. If it needs to be rodded out that's a lot cheaper than a new radiator and the conversion to an electric fan. And there's no reason a mechanical fan and the factory radiator shouldn't be able to cool a 318.

I run dual speed, dual electric fans from a Ford Contour V6 on a 26" champion radiator to cool my 400+ hp 340. It works great, and cost less than the ColdCase radiator by itself. Not saying that's what you need, but you can see what it takes to do an electric conversion correctly at least, it's not just a "bolt on" deal. Relays, fan controller, 100 amp alternator, amp gauge bypass to keep from frying the bulkhead connector, lots of heavy duty wiring, etc... My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head

Agree with the above post by blu , if an engine is bigger or hotter h.p. wise , it gets even worse !!