connecting rods.

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Khyron

Token "B" Body
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Welp. Parts will be ordered soon, so here is a question. Can I get away with keeping my stock connecting rods?

The motor isn't going to be overly powerful, about 350 horses. I got a set of kieth black flat tops and will be at about 9.5 to 10:1 compression.

She's not going to be beat on too much, maybe a few runs to get some times, but mainly just street and cruise play.

ohh, she's a 360 for those that don't know ;)
 
stockers will live past 400hp - don't know how far past 400 they will go, but mine lived for 6 years. Motor was a 360 in a 68 Barracuda. It made 377 hp and right at 400 lbs ft of torque - good enough to crack the rear floor pan. Hate the KB pistons though - burnt the tops off of 2 sets....
 
That's just one of the many evils of not having frame connectors. I just didn't think the motor was all that (it really didn't seem too impressive to me), so I didnt get in a big hurry stiffening up the body. It had airplane gears in it, idled about 700 rpm, and I was driving it back and forth to K.C., KS. every day - about 50 miles one way. It drove like a sailboat so I just didn't get excited about frame connectors. It wasn't like I was drag racing it all the time so I convinced myself that I wasn't tearing anything up. Now I have little different outlook on the whole thing - believe what everybody tells you about Mopars needing frame connectors...
 
o.k...now i'm lost :scratchhead:

O.k... Frame rails are on my list of things to buy. But not until the motor is running. I just just courious on how you burned 2 KB pistons and if I should re-think my purchase.
 
I can't speak for everybody - but I had 2 sets in the same motor and killed pistons both times. The problem is that they do all thier expansion on the top of the piston, as opposed to the entire piston growing - like a forged piston does. Since the KB's make an advertised 10.9:1 compression with stock heads they tend to have a little detonation problem - translation: they don't like pump gas. Mine did fine until you ripped it good and hard, then the spark arrived and I had to get off the throttle. Problem is that the detonation has to be pretty bad for you to actually hear it, so by the time you do the damage has already begun. I tried everything to kill it - bigger exhaust, bigger cam (more overlap), smaller cam, better fuel, less timing, more timing, bigger carb, smaller carb - nothing got rid of it completely. Of course, by the time I got it somewhat managable, the damage was already done. So I went through the motor again (new set of pistons) and started over. the combination was different and the detonation was significantly less, but still there nonetheless. Piston expansion is what killed the first set - the top of the piston expanded and bit onto the ring and blew the top ring lands off two of them. I don't like them. By the way, that motor was a 360 also. Obviously lots of people don't have problems with them or they wouldn't still be selling them - maybe my experience was an isolated incident - don't know - won't try it again. If you can knock some of the compression out of them - get it down to about 9.5 or so they would probably be fine, and the motor would still be a terror. Sorry - it would appear that I'm rambling on. I'd spend the money and get the forged units or maybe something from Ross...
 
klrfish1968, your experiance with KB pistons is not an isolated one. I have heard similar stories from two other people. That's another reason why I dropped my 360 project and jumped on the 340 stroker with the forged pistons.

If you read the tech articles on the KB site, it says that because they run such a high (close to the piston top) 1st ring groove, you have to run a large ring gap. This is because of the heat expansion issue. But if the rings ever do bind, it rips the top of the piston off.
 
Oh yeah Khyron, from everything I have heard, the stock 360 connecting rods should be fine. But you might want to ugrade the bolts to some ARP's.
 
hmmm, scary stuff there. I may have to rethink of the Pistons then. :? Good info non the less.

I'm on a tight budget and though the KB may be the best bang for he buck. I may not be able to afford the Forged at this time. What about seal power pistons. The compresion on this are only about 8.66:1. not too happy about that. Was hoping to be in the 9 range.

These problems are with the Hypereutec Pistions, or just the Kieth black in general. because If I need to the get KB Forged then the cost is not a big deal at all there. an extra $50 or so.

I'll go on KB and read the tech articals.
 
Read this one in particular.
http://kb-silvolite.com/article.php?action=read&A_id=35

Here is a quote of what got me a little concerned.
Top Ring End Gap is often a major player when it comes to piston problems. Most top land damage on race pistons appears to lift the land into the combustion chamber. The reason is that the top ring ends butt and lock the piston at TDC. Crank rotation pulls the piston down the cylinder while leaving at least part of the ring and top land at TDC. Actual running end gap will vary depending on the engine heat load. Piston alloy, fuel mixture, spark advance, compression, cooling system capacity, duty cycle, and Hp per c.i. all combine to determine an engine's heat load.

Most new generation pistons incorporate the top compression ring high on the piston. The high ring location cools the piston top more effectively, reduces detonation, smog, and increases Hp. If detonation or other excess heat situations develop, a top ring end gap set toward the tight side will quickly butt, with piston and cylinder damage to follow immediately. High location rings require extra end gap because they stop at a higher temperature portion of the cylinder at TDC and they have less shielding from the heat of combustion. At TDC the ring is usually above the cylinder water jacket. The current design KB Pistons do a better job of keeping the rings cool.

If a ring end gap is measured on the high side, you improve detonation tolerance in two ways. One, the engine will run longer under detonation before ring butt. Two, some leak down appears to benefit oil control by clearing the rings from oil loading. A small amount of chamber oil will cause detonation and significant Hp loss. The correct top ring end gap with KB Pistons can be 50% to 100% more than manufacturer's specs. Design changes have been made that reduce top land problems dramatically. Read more detail on this in the "New Piston Improvement" article.

I'm not an engine expert, and I am sure that if you follow their guidelines and recommendations the engine will last a long time. But I personally decided to go with something else. :salut:
 
I will read that shortly. What about your take on Sealed Power h100 series pistons? Hypereutectic pistions. They make 9.5:1 with a 68.4 cc Chamber. Flat tops with 2 Reliefs.

Same price, about the same compresion
 
I'm not an engine builder, but over the years I have had quite a few different engine combinations (experiments) and I like to think I've learned a few things... Some of the things I've noticed: 1) Small blocks rarely ever have the correct deck height - which is why compression usually comes in a little lower than advertised. 2) There are only a couple of Chrysler engines that ever came with forged pistons from the factory - so I would think there must not be too much wrong with the cast ones because they built some hot rods w/cast pistons. 3) Unless your building a killer, compression ratios higher than 9.5:1 are a waste of time and money - You want to drive it, right? 4) Stock rods w/good bolts WILL live well into the realm of 500+ HP - I've seen Super Stock small blocks make power like this and live for years w/no problems. 360's are a pretty good building block to start with, but just remember you're still stuck with a cast crank and if you get too wild you will break it. One more piece of advice - If you're serious about this, alittle extra money spent in the right place goes a long way in terms of "bang for the buck". Let's face it - about the only thing you can't deal with in the the car is bottom end problems. Heads, intakes, cams, headers, etc. can all be dealt with between the frame rails - pistons and rods are a little more difficult.
 
klrfish1968 said:
I'm not an engine builder, but over the years I have had quite a few different engine combinations (experiments) and I like to think I've learned a few things... Some of the things I've noticed: 1) Small blocks rarely ever have the correct deck height - which is why compression usually comes in a little lower than advertised. 2) There are only a couple of Chrysler engines that ever came with forged pistons from the factory - so I would think there must not be too much wrong with the cast ones because they built some hot rods w/cast pistons. 3) Unless your building a killer, compression ratios higher than 9.5:1 are a waste of time and money - You want to drive it, right? 4) Stock rods w/good bolts WILL live well into the realm of 500+ HP - I've seen Super Stock small blocks make power like this and live for years w/no problems. 360's are a pretty good building block to start with, but just remember you're still stuck with a cast crank and if you get too wild you will break it. One more piece of advice - If you're serious about this, alittle extra money spent in the right place goes a long way in terms of "bang for the buck". Let's face it - about the only thing you can't deal with in the the car is bottom end problems. Heads, intakes, cams, headers, etc. can all be dealt with between the frame rails - pistons and rods are a little more difficult.


I am not a pro either and prolly don't have the experience as some but your observations are pretty right on compared to what I have observed as well. I have had a few 360's as well. The hipo 360 in my car now has 11.1 comp but before this motor all the 360's I had where the stock crappy comp. Even with the stock comp you can mildly build a 360 to be pretty quick for not a lot of cash.
 
I guess it all depends on what you want to do and how bad you want to do it... Well, if you're married there's always the "what she'll let you do
' clause. :D
 
klrfish1968 said:
I guess it all depends on what you want to do and how bad you want to do it... Well, if you're married there's always the "what she'll let you do
' clause. :D
You have to do the old It's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission
 
Well, my wife is different than most... She actually gave me a bad time for NOT spending piles of dough on the hot rod - her contention was if you're gonna do it, do it right. She didn't get excited at all as she watched almost 20k go into the car in a six month period. Now she's on me about when are we going racing. :cheers:
 
klrfish1968 said:
Well, my wife is different than most... She actually gave me a bad time for NOT spending piles of dough on the hot rod - her contention was if you're gonna do it, do it right. She didn't get excited at all as she watched almost 20k go into the car in a six month period. Now she's on me about when are we going racing. :cheers:

Thats kinda like how my lil woman is. She doesn't care to much because the car gets us out of the house more in the summer time going to shows, cruises in, and racing.
 
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