Cost of Driving an EV
- Thread starter Scody21
- Start date
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New ICE cars have "0 miles - get fuel NOW" warnings, yet people still run out of gas.
Scody21
Just send it
Once they get to standardize all cars will use a drop in charged battery.
Pull up switch and go. Just like gas cars mileage will be determined by your power drain..
It's all about the money. Just like bank cards were back in the day. All the money boys fighting for position on who's system will be used.
None of these new fangled gas powered cars for me. What do you do when it runs out of gas? drill a hole in the ground and look for oil? No sir I'll stick with my horse. (written by someone a long time ago).
Also, how heavily taxpayer subsidized are those Teslas? If some guy is handing out free candy 364 days of the year, it is wise to be suspicious.
Embrace electric vehicles OR ship all manufacturing and technology to China?
- That is a false dichotomy
- China is collapsing
- Shipping is a terribly snarled
- China has been STEALING our technology for decades, note the false flag stories of their alleged hypersonic missiles (what is an icbm, if not hypersonic)
No I don't want to further subsidize the electric cars by paying even MORE For electricity at home.
Subsidies create artificial pressures on markets, which breaks the true cost calculations that are what individuals use to decide on where they spend their money. These false economies eventually collapse costing huge amounts to do bailouts.
We had training on safely disarming Hybrid and ever ready cars back in the 90’s when the first Prius came out. As firemen.
bobscuda67
Well-Known Member
All cars ever made were tax payer subsidized either by the feds or state or county or city.
When they built the new Jeep plant here they got millions from tax payers and didn't have to pay taxes for ten years. It really hurt the school system.
What does paving huge tracts do to the ecology and the weather patterns? I'm sure that the soaring birds would love it. I'm sure the ground-bound animals don't.
Electric vehicles are not about the ecology, they are a huge manufactured cash grab. this is a bunch of ignorant children throwing the economic levers at random so they can swing and play on them.
bobscuda67
Well-Known Member
GM, Ford are all in on EV's. And FCA, or whatever they call themselves now days, are spending no R&D money on gas engine development. The Hemi's are fully matured and there will be no turbo for the 3.6 that I have hoped for for years.
Bob, how did it hurt the schools? By bringing in more families because of the available jobs, hence more students to educate without the revenue? I'm not arguing, just curious about the dynamics of the situation.
Maybe so, but it is not an organic progression, rather the result of unnatural pressures..
Sort of the point, we are comparing modes of transportation. We compare ic to ev motor cars from the perspective of an established and accepted infrastructure for the ic motor car. We are also familiar and comfortable with all it's shortcomings. Way back they were making the same comparison between two modes of transportation horse vs motorcar. To some at the time the motor car did not seem like a viable alternative for the future. In part because of the lack of infrastructure to support the motor car and the many other shortcomings of the unrefined ic motorcar due to the the technologies yet to be discovered. Also horses had been around for a while and it's what people of the time were familiar and comfortable with. The shortcomings of the horse were known and accepted. Few if any at that time could imagine what the ic motor car has become today. In the future people will look back at the ic motor car and see that the change from ic motorcars was inevitable. And just as there are people who are horse enthusiasts still today there will probably be ic motor car enthusiasts in the future. The concept for electric cars has been around for a long time the technology to implement the concept has been developing all along. To the point now that you choose if you want an ic of ev motor vehicle. In the future new technology may tip in favor of the ev. Or maybe a new a technology will make both ic and ev obsolete. If and when that happens there will be some who will be against the new technology and in favor of the old. That is almost certain.
A horse is the propulsion unit for a buggy. The term used to describe the first motor car was a horseless carriage. Steam was also a method of propulsion. When people were given the choice they chose the gas engine as it improved with technology over time. Steam and horses both fell out of favor. We are seeing the same thing today. you can make an argument for which is better at this moment or in the past but it seems that momentum is in favor of the ev. With advances in technology and people getting more accustomed to the idea of ev . more people are choosing ev. if people become dissatisfied with their ev then they won't buy them anymore unless or until they are improved to there satisfaction. Car companys are aware of this trend and are hedging their bets on ev. That said they are not always spot on in their vision for the future.
LocuMob
Fluid Technician
Your horse comparison doesn't work, no matter how many examples you try to show. If we didn't have a road system, it may work, but that was 100+ years ago that any comparison would be valid.
What we are talking about is changing the propulsion mode of the automobile, not how we transport people and goods. Electric may be the future, but it is coming faster than the actual demand for it is growing. It is being forced as the new normal before being normal. In Minnesota, we sell 2,000 electric vehicles a year, but will be mandated to have 19,000 of them sitting on dealer lots in 2024. That will increase the cost of every IC vehicle on the lots to cover the money the dealer pays for those ev's that aren't being sold. It will also increase the cost of used vehicles, much the same way the chip shortage is raising new and used car pricing. Demand isn't there yet. Even in the bluest of blue states where they sell many more. I know Chicago has a ton of them, but they are a city of 2.8M people, so the greater numbers are to be expected.
What is the total percentage of EV's on the road today? Please show me those numbers, it will show how far off the demand is for these cars.
And if the younger people in urban areas don't want to even buy a car, that reduces the demand even more.
That's what I'm talking about. Changing the propulsion. From horse to gas from gas to hybrid from hybrid to all electric and so on. Same is true today as 100 + years ago. Gas stations did not pre-exist the horseless carriage. Same reasoning used today against ev. Only it's charging stations instead of gas stations.
You could argue about what the rate of increasing sales of ev's is but I think we can agree that sales have increased from year to year and probably will continue to do so in the near future.
As far as younger people trending toward not owning cars I see that that could lead to a decrease the overall demand for vehicles. But not the increase in demand for ev over ic. Pure speculation on my part but I think an increasing percentage of young urban people that do purchase cars will be looking at ev's.
As far as what the new normal is and what speed is too fast for change that depends on how you feel about it. Feelings are personal. Some say it's too fast others say it can't happen fast enough.
It could be that the state of Minn. is demanding too many EV's on the lots of dealers. I don't know anything about who what or why this is being mandated. I think the demand for EV's in 2024 remains to be seen in 2024.
I don't know the total number of EV 's on the road today. My guess is it's more than it was last year at this time and last year was more than the year before.
bobscuda67
Well-Known Member
There were businesses at the planed site already. Paying school taxes for decades and when the package was put together Chrysler got a 10 year tax abatement on school and property taxes too.
LocuMob
Fluid Technician
Not quite the same change in propulsion with a horse vs car, and ic vs ev. The roads are in place, and when cars first came out, they weren't and that was a major hurdle.
As for the mandate, the state just adopted California's ev requirement/law whatever it was we copied. Doesn't make a lot of sense for a state in cold weather half the year.
Yes, ev buying is going up each year, but by how much? Not as fast as laws are being crated, adpoted, copied. Demand is not outpacing market supply. I believe that ev's account for around 2% of total vehicles on the road at the current moment. So we have 14 years before no more ic powered vehicles will be made, if things remain the way they are, and they won't. How many will be on the road by then, 10, maybe 15%?
I think a better example would be diesel replacing steam on the railways, new propulsion mode using existing infrastructure. But that was a demand based change, not a forced decision for the rail industry.
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