73dartsport360
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2006
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
anyone use one of these? do they work well? how do they compare to others, edelbrock,holley etc.
thanks
brandon
thanks
brandon
crosswind manifold
- Thread starter 73dartsport360
- Start date
-
dgc333
Well-Known Member
I have one on my 360, you can see pictures at my web page, URL in sig line. I built the engine with it so I have no comparison to anything else but the engine is making approximately 370 HP with it. Hot Rod also built a low cost 350 Chevy that made over 400 HP with one so they do perform but how the compare to an Air-Gap which is arguably the best dual plane available I don't know. Until some one other than Professional Products (they say it makes more) does a back to back comparison we won't really know.
73DartSport340
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2004
- Messages
- 234
- Reaction score
- 3
from everything ive read it SHOULD perform exactly like a RPM performer becuase its a Chineese KNOCK OFF of that exact manifold...and like was said ive heard of no problems with them.
73dartsport360
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2006
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
thanks for the feedback. i'm going to try one out this next build.
3
340srule
Guest
Watched a program where they had Vic Edelbrock himself on showing how the gaskets did'nt line up correctly and the poor machining done to the crosswind compared to a "real"air gap..for 40.00 more i would and am running the "real" one on my stroker :thumbup: :thumbup:
ain10:
ramcharger
Dismember
340srule said:
I wonder if he showed the inferior gasket surface and casting of his cast aluminum valve covers on TV. Oh yeah, the Edelbrock valve covers are plainly stamped "Made in Taiwan" inside. I sent 'em right back to Summit and got some nice stamped, anodized aluminum Moroso covers for $40 less.
I'd much rather keep my money in the USA, but if their reselling Asian parts, what difference does it make.
dgc333
Well-Known Member
340srule said:
If you need a intake to fit magnum heads it's more like $140 more for the Edelbrock.
In any case the only conclusion that you can make from Vic doing that is he's concerned about losing business to a competitor and is trying to discredit them. If the Crosswind was truely bad then he wouldn't have felt compelled to go on TV.
I wonder if Professional Products scrounged up a bad Air-Gap and went on TV and did the same thing would every one be as negative about Edelbrock?
3
340srule
Guest
dgc333 said:
No,Vic was just showing how a inferior foreign made copy can't compare to the original American made one :thumbup:
Thrashard340
Well-Known Member
340srule said:
Although, it is ok for Vic to use "inferior" foreign product on his valve covers?
mikesduster
Well-Known Member
WEIAND is now making a airgap type intake called the AIR STRIKE and it looks just like an AIRGAP.
ramcharger
Dismember
340srule
No,Vic was just showing how a inferior foreign made copy can't compare to the original American made one.
Yeah, it looks like a Weiand will be in my future. I know that the Edelbrock family's hot rodding history runs to the pre-WWII era, and that their knowledge far surpasses mine. I must also give them kudos for their support of hot rodding in general stretching back to far before I was born.
That being said, I bought those valve covers based on thier reputation and my previous experience with their products, which at that time had always been good.
I had the covers shipped to work so I didn't have to worry about them getting ripped off from my front stoop. I called over two of my co-workers, both of whom share my interest in racing, and build their own cars and bikes. Upon pulling them out of the box (there was no damage to the box whatsoever), I noticed that there was a crack running right through the gasket sealing surface. This was not a "oops I dropped it" kind of crack, but a bonified crappy *** casting crack that went straight through. There was so much casting flash on the sealing surface of both valve covers that I would have had to mill them both to have them seal even if they weren't cracked. The quality of the aluminum appeared poor (as in porous) and the castings were incredibly thin. All three of us were blown away by the poor quality. If your'e going to put your name on something, at least have some quality control. Summit being what they are, took the covers right back and refunded all of my money, including shipping.
Shortly afterward, I e-mailed (not a nasty e-mail, just an informative one)their tech dept, letting them know what the story was. I was expecting to get a response like "Thanks for letting us know what the problem was, we are replacing our vendor" or "We have changed our QC procedures to prevent such problems in the future". No response. Two more e-mails. No response.
A month later I e-mailed them a detailed letter regarding the RPM range of their LD4B intake manifold, here's copy of the e-mail and the response I got (Read from bottom to top!):
"The LD4B has an rpm range of 1000 to 5000 rpms.
For all replies please include the ORIGINAL Email.
Thanks - Gregg Suyenaga, Edelbrock Tech Dept.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Esterl
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:23 AM
To: Greg Suyenaga
Subject: RE: LD4B Intake Manifold
Gregg,
Yes I do but it has not been installed on the engine yet. It came off a core 360 block I plan on stroking to a 408 that will have a solid roller cam and W-2 heads and will be going into a lightweight A-body Mopar. Needless to say, the LD4B will not work with the W-2 heads I plan on installing, so I was hoping it would work well with my existing truck motor combo. I can't seem to find much information on this manifold though. If it will not compliment my choice of parts, I can always sell it.
Thanks,
Joe
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Greg Suyenaga [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 11:09 AM
To: Joe Esterl
Subject: RE: LD4B Intake Manifold
Before I answer this. Do you already have the LD4B intake?
For all replies please include the ORIGINAL Email.
Thanks - Gregg Suyenaga, Edelbrock Tech Dept.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Esterl
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:26 AM
To: edelbrock
Subject: RE: LD4B Intake Manifold
Techs,
I am presently building a '74 Chrysler 360 LA engine and had a question as to whether an old Edelbrock LD4B manifold would suit my needs. The engine specs are as follows: 10:2 to measured compression ratio, cast iron 360 heads with 2.02 intake valves and 1.60 exhaust valves, Crane cam with 216 intake and 228 duration @ .050 lift, .454 lift intake, .480 lift exhaust, 1.6 ratio rocker arms, 1 5/8" headers, and Holley 670 cfm Truck Avenger carb. I am running a Torqueflight 727 automatic transmission with a TCI sizzler torque converter which should allow a 300 to 400 rpm increase in stall speed over stock.
This engine will be going into a '74 Dodge Ramcharger that is used at an altitude of 5280 ft. and above (up to 10,000 ft.). I have 32' tall tires (measured) with 3.55 gears, soon to be upgraded to 3.73. We have high speed limits here in Colorado (75 mph), and the truck will be used primarily for transportation to fishing and camping sites in the mountains and towing a lightweight pop-up style camper as well as blasting around in the mud and off-road hill climbing.
Thanks,
Joe"
All they wanted to know was whether or not I already bought a manifold? I don't get it.
Anyway, that's been my personal experience with them this past year, so my next manifold will most likely be a Weiand. :sad:
Sorry so long, been hitting the coffee hard this morning!
No,Vic was just showing how a inferior foreign made copy can't compare to the original American made one.
Yeah, it looks like a Weiand will be in my future. I know that the Edelbrock family's hot rodding history runs to the pre-WWII era, and that their knowledge far surpasses mine. I must also give them kudos for their support of hot rodding in general stretching back to far before I was born.
That being said, I bought those valve covers based on thier reputation and my previous experience with their products, which at that time had always been good.
I had the covers shipped to work so I didn't have to worry about them getting ripped off from my front stoop. I called over two of my co-workers, both of whom share my interest in racing, and build their own cars and bikes. Upon pulling them out of the box (there was no damage to the box whatsoever), I noticed that there was a crack running right through the gasket sealing surface. This was not a "oops I dropped it" kind of crack, but a bonified crappy *** casting crack that went straight through. There was so much casting flash on the sealing surface of both valve covers that I would have had to mill them both to have them seal even if they weren't cracked. The quality of the aluminum appeared poor (as in porous) and the castings were incredibly thin. All three of us were blown away by the poor quality. If your'e going to put your name on something, at least have some quality control. Summit being what they are, took the covers right back and refunded all of my money, including shipping.
Shortly afterward, I e-mailed (not a nasty e-mail, just an informative one)their tech dept, letting them know what the story was. I was expecting to get a response like "Thanks for letting us know what the problem was, we are replacing our vendor" or "We have changed our QC procedures to prevent such problems in the future". No response. Two more e-mails. No response.
A month later I e-mailed them a detailed letter regarding the RPM range of their LD4B intake manifold, here's copy of the e-mail and the response I got (Read from bottom to top!):
"The LD4B has an rpm range of 1000 to 5000 rpms.
For all replies please include the ORIGINAL Email.
Thanks - Gregg Suyenaga, Edelbrock Tech Dept.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Esterl
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:23 AM
To: Greg Suyenaga
Subject: RE: LD4B Intake Manifold
Gregg,
Yes I do but it has not been installed on the engine yet. It came off a core 360 block I plan on stroking to a 408 that will have a solid roller cam and W-2 heads and will be going into a lightweight A-body Mopar. Needless to say, the LD4B will not work with the W-2 heads I plan on installing, so I was hoping it would work well with my existing truck motor combo. I can't seem to find much information on this manifold though. If it will not compliment my choice of parts, I can always sell it.
Thanks,
Joe
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Greg Suyenaga [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 11:09 AM
To: Joe Esterl
Subject: RE: LD4B Intake Manifold
Before I answer this. Do you already have the LD4B intake?
For all replies please include the ORIGINAL Email.
Thanks - Gregg Suyenaga, Edelbrock Tech Dept.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Esterl
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:26 AM
To: edelbrock
Subject: RE: LD4B Intake Manifold
Techs,
I am presently building a '74 Chrysler 360 LA engine and had a question as to whether an old Edelbrock LD4B manifold would suit my needs. The engine specs are as follows: 10:2 to measured compression ratio, cast iron 360 heads with 2.02 intake valves and 1.60 exhaust valves, Crane cam with 216 intake and 228 duration @ .050 lift, .454 lift intake, .480 lift exhaust, 1.6 ratio rocker arms, 1 5/8" headers, and Holley 670 cfm Truck Avenger carb. I am running a Torqueflight 727 automatic transmission with a TCI sizzler torque converter which should allow a 300 to 400 rpm increase in stall speed over stock.
This engine will be going into a '74 Dodge Ramcharger that is used at an altitude of 5280 ft. and above (up to 10,000 ft.). I have 32' tall tires (measured) with 3.55 gears, soon to be upgraded to 3.73. We have high speed limits here in Colorado (75 mph), and the truck will be used primarily for transportation to fishing and camping sites in the mountains and towing a lightweight pop-up style camper as well as blasting around in the mud and off-road hill climbing.
Thanks,
Joe"
All they wanted to know was whether or not I already bought a manifold? I don't get it.
Anyway, that's been my personal experience with them this past year, so my next manifold will most likely be a Weiand. :sad:
Sorry so long, been hitting the coffee hard this morning!
Thrashard340
Well-Known Member
Ramcharger, it sounds like Edelbrock's tech response is read out of a manual by the tech support guy...more suited for liability protection purposes than actually answering the intended question. I work in the tech industry where tech support is outsourced and these kind of responses are commonplace but I would have never imagined that this would happen in the auto performance industry. Yours may or may not be that situation and the guy was probably more interested in trying to upsell you to a Performer or something. Pretty silly response.
Case in point check out this thread I started with Marshall Engines ts regarding one of their crate engines. Marshall Engines aka Blueprint Engines. Same, start from the bottom up. Pretty entertaining, but most of my questions were never answered. I just hope the guy answering these questions isn't the same guy building the engines. I already knew the cam specs (from Jegs website) but wanted to test the tech support. I actually got tired of responding after the last email. I think this response is outsourced.
The CT does not come with Water pump but has the balance.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan"
To: "Marshall Engines" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: BlueprintEngines.com: General Contact
>
> Yes, I am aware of that. But what about my other
> questions?
>
> --- Marshall Engines <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > The CTC comes with carb and ignition the CT does
> > not.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stan"
> > To: "Marshall Engines" <[email protected]>
> > Cc: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: BlueprintEngines.com: General Contact
> >
> >
> > > Thanks for replying.
> > >
> > > I am planning on purchasing the Chrysler Base 408
> > /
> > > Alum (your part # BPC4081CT). Can you verify if
> > this
> > > engine comes with harmonic balancer (picture
> > shows,
> > > but not listed), water pump, fuel pump,
> > distributor?
> > >
> > > What are the cam specs on this combo? Is it
> > internal
> > > or external balanced?
> > >
> > > Also, you rate this combo at 435HP and 500TQ. What
> > > size exhaust headers were used to achieve these
> > #'s?
> > >
> > > Thanks - STAN
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Marshall Engines <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > We do not change any of the internal components
> > of
> > > > the engine. By changing
> > > > a camshaft there is a lot of variables that need
> > to
> > > > be addressed to get the
> > > > engine to perform correctly. We know that our
> > > > design's work correctly and oil pump?
> > > > provide the fun you expect when you push on the
> > > > pedal.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Stan"
> > > > To: "BlueprintEngines.com"
> > > > <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 4:50 PM
> > > > Subject: BlueprintEngines.com: General Contact
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Comments:
> > > > > Hello, can I order one of your crate engines
> > with
> > > > a different camshaft?
> > > > Thanks - STAN
Case in point check out this thread I started with Marshall Engines ts regarding one of their crate engines. Marshall Engines aka Blueprint Engines. Same, start from the bottom up. Pretty entertaining, but most of my questions were never answered. I just hope the guy answering these questions isn't the same guy building the engines. I already knew the cam specs (from Jegs website) but wanted to test the tech support. I actually got tired of responding after the last email. I think this response is outsourced.
The CT does not come with Water pump but has the balance.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan"
To: "Marshall Engines" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: BlueprintEngines.com: General Contact
>
> Yes, I am aware of that. But what about my other
> questions?
>
> --- Marshall Engines <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > The CTC comes with carb and ignition the CT does
> > not.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stan"
> > To: "Marshall Engines" <[email protected]>
> > Cc: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: BlueprintEngines.com: General Contact
> >
> >
> > > Thanks for replying.
> > >
> > > I am planning on purchasing the Chrysler Base 408
> > /
> > > Alum (your part # BPC4081CT). Can you verify if
> > this
> > > engine comes with harmonic balancer (picture
> > shows,
> > > but not listed), water pump, fuel pump,
> > distributor?
> > >
> > > What are the cam specs on this combo? Is it
> > internal
> > > or external balanced?
> > >
> > > Also, you rate this combo at 435HP and 500TQ. What
> > > size exhaust headers were used to achieve these
> > #'s?
> > >
> > > Thanks - STAN
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Marshall Engines <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > We do not change any of the internal components
> > of
> > > > the engine. By changing
> > > > a camshaft there is a lot of variables that need
> > to
> > > > be addressed to get the
> > > > engine to perform correctly. We know that our
> > > > design's work correctly and oil pump?
> > > > provide the fun you expect when you push on the
> > > > pedal.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Stan"
> > > > To: "BlueprintEngines.com"
> > > > <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 4:50 PM
> > > > Subject: BlueprintEngines.com: General Contact
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Comments:
> > > > > Hello, can I order one of your crate engines
> > with
> > > > a different camshaft?
> > > > Thanks - STAN
ramcharger
Dismember
ROTFLMAO!! :tongue9:
Thrashard340, that sounds like a "who's on first" comedy routine! And your right, it sounds as if we both ran into outsourced technical support, reading off a script. If anyone throws an intelligent question at these guys, they lock up like an old two-stroke running on straight gas.
I'm sure if I asked if their manifolds were made of aluminum or you asked if their engines shipped with oil, we may have received the correct response.
Thrashard340, that sounds like a "who's on first" comedy routine! And your right, it sounds as if we both ran into outsourced technical support, reading off a script. If anyone throws an intelligent question at these guys, they lock up like an old two-stroke running on straight gas.
I'm sure if I asked if their manifolds were made of aluminum or you asked if their engines shipped with oil, we may have received the correct response.
D-mailman
Well-Known Member
I run an Air Gap on my engine. Solid piece. Very good casting...no complaints here. Besides...they (edelbrock) did all of the R&D to develop this manifold. Glad I bought an American made product, because..I AM an American! Terry.
-
