Cryo treating blocks?

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gagembassett

gagembassett

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So I've posted quite a few times regarding my rather controversial plan of a W9 headed factory 360 block. I was doing a little research and I ran across a post of a machine shop that partook in a competition. Long story short they crank out over 720 horsepower out of a factory magnum block without any block filler. They said they sent the block off for cryo treatment stating it makes the block 30 to 40 percent stronger. I have very little knowledge on it but what does everyone think on this topic? Also does anybody know somewhere that would do this in the Midwest (assuming they stand on the good opinion side)
 
Hughes Engines sells cryogenic treated rocker arms which are stronger and high strength, thats all i know about cryogenic
 
From what I’ve seen, it works. I sent my cam and lifters in for cryo, but I haven’t used them yet.

If I’m going to use SFT lifters my policy is going to be to cryo them.
 
its not new tech and it dose work! block needs to be done with all machining before, and price and finding some one that dose it will be your determining factors!
 
The shop who uses cyro and built that magnum motor you are referring to is Valley performance in Ionia, Mi. Jack Barna is the shop owner.
he sends stuff out to be treated at a place over in Grand Rapids who does it.
 
That process has been done on firearms parts for years. Seems to work.
 
MMissile said:
That process has been done on firearms parts for years. Seems to work.
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I had my 440/505 block and main caps done before machining , machining doesn`t affect it from what I gathered at the time , and the machinist said they couldnt tell any diff in it .
I t supposedly changes something in the metalurgy of the material being frozen , (not the molecules tho) , if done right ........??
 
It seemed to stabilize the metal in barrels, making them more accurate.
 
I would assume this process is best used for engine components that run on the ragged edge. Components in top fuel racing are still changed between rounds and I assume this is a standard treatment in those engines. Passenger car blocks still are not race blocks. Everything fails at some point. I believe the process does have merit. It’s not going to change your street car into a top fueler. It’s like a metalax stress reliever in it does work but viewed by some as hokey voodoo. Most top teams in NHRA/NASCAR use a metalax between races on the whole car.
 
I asked the same thing what I got back depends who's doing it.
 
When racing pontiacs in the 90s, I ran across this process when coming up against the fast guys. If I remember correctly (which I possibly don't) they did the freezing first, then machining. There was some talk about the molecules lining up somehow as @famous bob mentioned.

$0.02
 
clementine said:
When racing pontiacs in the 90s, I ran across this process when coming up against the fast guys. If I remember correctly (which I possibly don't) they did the freezing first, then machining. There was some talk about the molecules lining up somehow as @famous bob mentioned.

$0.02
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what i remember , it doesn`t change the molecules , but does change something in the metal , supposedly discovered by nasa on metal that came back from outer space , tuned out it was stronger than when it left
I figured it might help keep from splitting the block between the cam and mains , when pushing the h.p. limits , which I may be doing.................???
 
Well and that's what I thought, I figured it had to have been around for quite a while and I had heard of rockers and lifters being cryo treated but never had heard of an actual block being treated. My goal is only 600ish hp out of my W9 360 but I'm planning on doing as much overruling as possible to ensure it lives. A fellow mopar friend of mine has had a 360 magnum survive at 625 hp + 250 shot on it. No hard fill either. And people have advised against things such as girdles, 4 bolt main caps even when not using the outer bolt holes etc. So was looking into this
 
B3422w5 said:
The shop who uses cyro and built that magnum motor you are referring to is Valley performance in Ionia, Mi. Jack Barna is the shop owner.
he sends stuff out to be treated at a place over in Grand Rapids who does it.
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You are correct, that's who I was referring to
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I think it makes the molecules move closer together. Like if you fill a balloon at ambient temp, put in freezer. Gets smaller. Remove balloon and place in oven on warm. Expands beyond the original circumference. How on earth they get it to stay like that is beyond me. Especially with the block then running at temp. Gonna have to do some research.
 
Any engine will last at 700 horsepower. The question is for how long. For most a long long time going to 2-3 races a year, a cruise here and there, ice cream every other Sunday. How many builds get ran one day on a dyno then off to be installed in a piece of garage art.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Any engine will last at 700 horsepower. The question is for how long. For most a long long time going to 2-3 races a year, a cruise here and there, ice cream every other Sunday. How many builds get ran one day on a dyno then off to be installed in a piece of garage art.
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I agree and that's why I'm doing ad much research before I even start the build. Now some may ask why I'm going to such lengths to research how to keep a factory block alive instead just getting a race block? Because I like to learn the knowledge and because factory blocks are around every corner for cheap so if I can learn to make them last it helps for future builds in the long run. For me making it last at 600 hp would yes be maybe 2,3 or 4 races a year plus street cruising. I've talked to a handful of people running 340s and 360s in the 575 to 650 range that have 4 and 5 years of hundreds of runs a year that are still on the original build. Some have pulled out the engines for refresh but others say it still runs like brand new. That's my goal
 
Freezing parts works. It toughens the metal. You machine blocks AFTER freezing, your machinist will be able to tell the difference as its harder on tooling. If he can't tell the difference it wasn't done correctly or you need a new machine shop. Gears and sliders in manual transmissions last much much longer.
 
I believe what it does is refine the grain structure of the metal and it also aligns the polarity thus strenthening the part. This would be beneficial to a casting.
 
ch1ll said:
I believe what it does is refine the grain structure of the metal and it also aligns the polarity thus strenthening the part. This would be beneficial to a casting.
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That’s about what we were told. I was offer this service back in the late 1970’s early 1980’s for free. My buddy worked at a local machine shop that offered it. I didn’t know anything about it and didn’t want to risk getting him in trouble. My hometown was a hotbed for industrial machine shops.
 
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