Daily Driver.. LA318 vs 360 Magnum

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Justin Sykes

CrewCabDart
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
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Marietta MS
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So, my little 318 is on its way out. Burns more oil than gas, takes forever to get oil pressure, ect.

My initial plan was to rebuild one of the (5) 318s i have sitting around (all late 70s, early 80s LA but one ‘68). I had intended to do a stout little 318s build: Air Gap, Headers, pistons (shooting for 9.5-1), home port my “302” heads, good cam, HEI, ect. Was shooting for a honest 300 WHP.

I’ve recently come across a great deal on a Magnum 360 that I’d probably do a very similar build to. Keep the Mag heads, Air Gap, Headers, flat tops (again, shooting for 9.5-1), a good cam, ect. Maybe a honest 350 WHP.

I have been reluctant to the 360 idea because of the bad rep they get when it comes to MPG. My car is my daily driver and it set up with that in mind; 727, 8 3/4 with 2.94. No 750 DP, No 3.91s, not a racecar.

I’d like to hear what kind of MPGs some of yall are pulling with similar setups. (600/650/670 Vac Secondary, 2.76,2.94, or 3.23 gears)
Any input is appreciated!

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My 360 Duster, with about a stock 340 cam, gets better gas mileage with a 750 DP and 2.94's than my 318 Duster with 2.76's. Both have great sealing valves.
 
I daily drive a Quad Cab 4x4 Dakota with a 5.9 Magnum and it gets an honest 15 mpg with norm driving. Of course thats EFI, but still that's pretty good. I would guarantee if the tune is right you could get decent fuel mileage with either engine. If it were me, I'd build what I had if I was shooting for a mild street engine.
 
Once you change the cam for power, your mileage will take a hit. A lot depends on the cam size and of course your state of tune.

My own 5.9 is in a B body @ 3600lbs. 727/3/55’s on a 245/60/15. (About 26-1/2 inches) I get about 17 mpg’s Hwy and probably because it revs a bit at speed. (70 mph)

The engine only had typical bolt on parts.
‘72 trap door air cleaner
750 AFB
RPM
Hooker super comp headers @ 1-3/4
2-1/2 exhaust
Fired by a MP chrome box and distributor
P/S, P/B but no A/C.
 
My 360 Duster, with about a stock 340 cam, gets better gas mileage with a 750 DP and 2.94's than my 318 Duster with 2.76's. Both have great sealing valves.
Well thats crazy! But, that 318 also has 1200cfm lol. Whats the mpg number on the 360? Love your 318 series btw! Gonna use your homeport guide!
 
Once you change the cam for power, your mileage will take a hit. A lot depends on the cam size and of course your state of tune.

My own 5.9 is in a B body @ 3600lbs. 727/3/55’s on a 245/60/15. (About 26-1/2 inches) I get about 17 mpg’s Hwy and probably because it revs a bit at speed. (70 mph)

The engine only had typical bolt on parts.
‘72 trap door air cleaner
750 AFB
RPM
Hooker super comp headers @ 1-3/4
2-1/2 exhaust
Fired by a MP chrome box and distributor
P/S, P/B but no A/C.
17 mpg is perfectly acceptable in my book! Your average seems much higher than others, especially with that gearing and being a B Body!
 
Well thats crazy! But, that 318 also has 1200cfm lol. Whats the mpg number on the 360? Love your 318 series btw! Gonna use your homeport guide!
I was actually speaking, though, when it had the single holly carb. 670 then the 770. Haven't actually tested the 360 but from traveling here and there, and where all I go, I'd guess at least 17, maybe a little more. IF I stay out of it!
 
I was actually speaking, though, when it had the single holly carb. 670 then the 770. Haven't actually tested the 360 but from traveling here and there, and where all I go, I'd guess at least 17, maybe a little more. IF I stay out of it!
Good info! 17 is plenty acceptable to me!
 
Back in 1977? I had a 75 360 Cordova with a 360 2.76 gears. It was easy 20 mph on the highway (80-85) but too not great in the city. I did was remove the Lean Burn and re-jet the carb. One day a gentleman came into the station and remarked on the paint job (custom) and asked if it was a 318 and I told him 318's were pigs, remember 1977, so I told him about the millage and the torque and he said no way so I thru him the keys and when he came back he said from now on I'm only ordering 360's in all the ones I order. He ended up owning a Chrysler dealership!
 
ps 350 rwh is asking a lot out of a 9.5 360. Dyno variations and tunes mean a lot also.
 
My milestone--and I realize things were different then, fuel for one........in about ??73 I swapped a 340 into my 70 RR which was a 440-6--complete with hemi gearbox and Dana 3.54. So a bit heavier and more friction than the "average bird." I did put headers on it, and ran, variously, the Thermoquad, and a couple different Holley spreadbore, which were new technology at that time. That ol thing would get 17.5 and I was NOT a "careful" driver as to fuel mileage.
 
Back in 1977? I had a 75 360 Cordova with a 360 2.76 gears. It was easy 20 mph on the highway (80-85) but too not great in the city. I did was remove the Lean Burn and re-jet the carb. One day a gentleman came into the station and remarked on the paint job (custom) and asked if it was a 318 and I told him 318's were pigs, remember 1977, so I told him about the millage and the torque and he said no way so I thru him the keys and when he came back he said from now on I'm only ordering 360's in all the ones I order. He ended up owning a Chrysler dealership!
I should have added in my old Cordoba. I also got 20 mpg’s.
‘79-360 - 2bbl ran terrible. Same things you did pretty much. Here’s what I did.
Trap door air cleaner
Edelbrock 600
OEM 4bbl.
Electronic distributor orange box fired
Dual exhaust off of the exhaust manifolds
By law.... grrrrrr ... by law i used twin high flow cats. H pipe, then out to the back bumper @ 2-1/4 pipe.
Your right about power! NONE! The mid ‘70’s plus was tough in that. But it did wake up some for sure.

LU 904/2.76 on stock tires. What ever the Cordoba called for back then. 20 mpg was realized at or below 65.
 
How much gas do you use a year ?

360 is 13% bigger than a 318 even if that translated into a 13% extra fuel cost that's like $130 a year on every $1000 spent. Does it matter that much ?
If it matters that much put about 13% less rear gear then you would run with 318 and should get around the same mpg but with a loss of performance.

I've never notice that much difference in intown mileage in older cars. 6 or 8, small or large displacement.
 
Have you ever driven or rode in an A body with the Magnum? If not your missing out on the difference just a stock Magnum is. I replaced a LA 360 a couple years ago with the Magnum stock except having Oregon cams provide the cam nothing wild and can't believe how responsive that motor is. This thing just plum gets the job done and is a great cruiser. Invest in either the Fitech or Sniper EFI while your at it hell use the Super Sniper leave the compression down and add the Torqstorm supercharger also use the Holley hyperspark distributor - coil and ignition box
 
How much gas do you use a year ?

360 is 13% bigger than a 318 even if that translated into a 13% extra fuel cost that's like $130 a year on every $1000 spent. Does it matter that much ?
If it matters that much put about 13% less rear gear then you would run with 318 and should get around the same mpg but with a loss of performance.

I've never notice that much difference in intown mileage in older cars. 6 or 8, small or large displacement.
The 360's got better millage than the 318's because of the torque. You could just touch the throttle and achieve the same response. I had a lot of both and the 360's were better all the time.
 
I have been reluctant to the 360 idea because of the bad rep they get when it comes to MPG. My car is my daily driver and it set up with that in mind; 727, 8 3/4 with 2.94. No 750 DP, No 3.91s, not a racecar.

Yes people blame the 360 for poor mpgs, but it ain't exactly fair, cuz if you gear two same cars identically one with each engine, then they will get close to the same mpgs ........... because it takes a certain amount of power to push your way thru the atmosphere and it don't much matter if you have 5.2 or if 5.9 liters
The thing is; a 5.9 can run less gear, have the same performance as the 5.2, but turn 10 or even 20% less rpms at steady-state cruise and so reap about half those numbers in less fuel consumed.
The bigger thing is this; If you are taking the engine apart anyway, then you can cure the principal reason for poor mpg of either engine, by pumping up the pressure. There is absolutely no good reason to run the paltry 130 or less psi that these engines run.
But;
geared identically, and around town, driven the same, the bigger engine will give up economy most of the time.
BTW 360s love 2.94s as DDs
And if you are shooting for a 300RWhp, DD, AND fuel-economy, then in a 2.94 equipped DD, you don't actually want 300RWHP, cuz with a 318, this comes at such a high rpm that you can't get to it until say 5600rpm/nearly 60mph in first gear; and in the meantime, unless you have matched the compression to the cam, you will have a low-performance bottom end. and forget about economy with that big cam.
When you say 300RWHP, you are saying 350 crank hp, and in a DD with 2.94s. what you really should be saying is that you want mega-torque so you can at least burn some rubber; am I right? Well that don't take mega-power; that takes low-rpm torque. And that is something the 360/5.9 is good at so it's a natural. Especially the 5.9 because it already has a full point higher Scr.
In your case I vote 5.9, hands down.
You can run 2 sizes less cam,than in a 318, and/or you can run at least one smaller gear; and
even tho you won't have 300RWHP,
with 3.23s , in comparison, at 65mph or less, it will feel like 400 crank.

It's all in the numbers; torque and gears.
Suppose your 318 somewhere in it's power band, peaks at 318 ftlbs. and you run 2.94s,with a 2.45 low gear; ok that calculates to
318 x 2.45 x2.94=2290 ftlbs into the axles.
Next, lets say you build a 360 to the same 1 ftlb per cube then,
360 x2.45 x2.94=2593 ftlbs
2593 over 2290 shows the 360 to be 13.23% stronger, so the 318 would need at least that much more gear to hang with it as to first gear performance, which would be 3.33s. With the next closer Mopar gear, 3.23s,the teener looks like
318 x2.45 x3.23=2516 .
Of course cruising 9.9% faster with the 318 is gonna cost you ~5% more fuel-economy.
Conversely; you could run 2.76s with the 360, so
360x2.45x2.76=2434, still 6% stronger than the 318/2.94s, but now having given up 6.5% rpm, she's looking like 3.2% better fuel economy.

Another trick you can do is use the A999 ratios with the 360 which has plenty of muscle to pull the wider splits, and for the same second gear, you can give up one rear gear size. Here is how this works ;
First, the 318 with 3.23s, then the 360/A999.
3.23 x 1.45=4.68 second gear, and
2.94 x 1.54=4.53 with the A999. Low gear will now be
7.93/A904, versus 8.06/A999 . But the hiway is
3.23 versus 2.94; advantage of 9% to the 2.94s so ~4.5% less fuel consumption
If you start adding up the advantages of smaller cams and less rear gears and the A999, it should quickly become apparent which way to go.
And besides all that, if you have to rebuild a 360, it costs less for hi-compression pistons, and you don't have to cut anything. Throw on a set of small-chamber alloy heads and you can run 11/1 easy enough,and pick up better economy in street driving as well.
Whatever you decide, I am not a 318 hater. The numbers speak for themselves.
 
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My 4200 pound 2000 Dakota 5.9 with 170,000 miles and an effective 2.7x final drive ratio get 13.8 MPG average.

That is with the factory EFI. Only mods are K&N filter and cat back duals.

Check the specs on your 1968 318. it may already be a 9.2:1 motor.

The 70's and early 80's are 8.8:1
 
The fuel mileage of ether engine will depend on a lot of things but in the case of the Magnum series engines being discussed, since they cam in heavy vehicles, weight is a huge factor. The little engines struggle to do well. A good case in this point is my ‘03 Dodge Dakota quad cab 4X4. The little V6 gets worse mileage then the 318 models.

So AJ’s novel is out the door.

If we take the engines and use them in a light weight A body, the 318 will have the edge for sure.
 
AJ's right. If you cut the heads as much as possible .060? run a stock 340 cam it'll run and give better millage too.
 
This seems familiar I think you posted this question on FB as well? Glad to see you asking here you'll get much better answers.

Since you're running a 727 the mileage will never be that great and the difference in mileage between a 318 and 360 using that trans will be less than if you were using say a 904 or some type of manual trans. Also since you already plan to use tall 2.94 gears my vote is for the 360 Magnum. Just a prediction but if you built both a 318 and 360 to a similar level and put them in that car with that transmission and gearing, the 318 would get only slightly better mileage (1-3 MPG) while being noticeably less "punchy".

If you were willing to swap to a 904 then I'd lean more towards the 318 because you'll actually be able to achieve worthwhile gas mileage. Note 'back in the day' the slant-6 and 318 cars had lighter and smaller drivetrain parts (904, 7 1/4" rear end) because with a smaller engine frictional losses become more apparent and make the engine have to work harder than it should. Part of the reason why a stock 5.9L Magnum in a 4200-lb Dakota with a 46RE (727-based 4-speed OD auto) averages 13 MPG but put that same engine in an A-body with a manual trans and mileage "magically" goes way up to the 15-20+ range depending on gearing. Same goes for the G3 Hemi, even in stock applications a newer Ram 1500 will get much worse mileage than a 300/Charger/Challenger with the same 5.7L Hemi due to the weight, aerodynamics and increased friction from the heavier drivetrain parts in a full-size pickup.
 
Yes people blame the 360 for poor mpgs, but it ain't exactly fair, cuz if you gear two same cars identically one with each engine, then they will get close to the same mpgs ........... because it takes a certain amount of power to push your way thru the atmosphere and it don't much matter if you have 5.2 or if 5.9 liters
The thing is; a 5.9 can run less gear, have the same performance as the 5.2, but turn 10 or even 20% less rpms at steady-state cruise and so reap about half those numbers in less fuel consumed.
The bigger thing is this; If you are taking the engine apart anyway, then you can cure the principal reason for poor mpg of either engine, by pumping up the pressure. There is absolutely no good reason to run the paltry 130 or less psi that these engines run.
But;
geared identically, and around town, driven the same, the bigger engine will give up economy most of the time.
BTW 360s love 2.94s as DDs
And if you are shooting for a 300RWhp, DD, AND fuel-economy, then in a 2.94 equipped DD, you don't actually want 300RWHP, cuz with a 318, this comes at such a high rpm that you can't get to it until say 5600rpm/nearly 60mph in first gear; and in the meantime, unless you have matched the compression to the cam, you will have a low-performance bottom end. and forget about economy with that big cam.
When you say 300RWHP, you are saying 350 crank hp, and in a DD with 2.94s. what you really should be saying is that you want mega-torque so you can at least burn some rubber; am I right? Well that don't take mega-power; that takes low-rpm torque. And that is something the 360/5.9 is good at so it's a natural. Especially the 5.9 because it already has a full point higher Scr.
In your case I vote 5.9, hands down.
You can run 2 sizes less cam,than in a 318, and/or you can run at least one smaller gear; and
even tho you won't have 300RWHP,
with 3.23s , in comparison, at 65mph or less, it will feel like 400 crank.

It's all in the numbers; torque and gears.
Suppose your 318 somewhere in it's power band, peaks at 318 ftlbs. and you run 2.94s,with a 2.45 low gear; ok that calculates to
318 x 2.45 x2.94=2290 ftlbs into the axles.
Next, lets say you build a 360 to the same 1 ftlb per cube then,
360 x2.45 x2.94=2593 ftlbs
2593 over 2290 shows the 360 to be 13.23% stronger, so the 318 would need at least that much more gear to hang with it as to first gear performance, which would be 3.33s. With the next closer Mopar gear, 3.23s,the teener looks like
318 x2.45 x3.23=2516 .
Of course cruising 9.9% faster with the 318 is gonna cost you ~5% more fuel-economy.
Conversely; you could run 2.76s with the 360, so
360x2.45x2.76=2434, still 6% stronger than the 318/2.94s, but now having given up 6.5% rpm, she's looking like 3.2% better fuel economy.

Another trick you can do is use the A999 ratios with the 360 which has plenty of muscle to pull the wider splits, and for the same second gear, you can give up one rear gear size. Here is how this works ;
First, the 318 with 3.23s, then the 360/A999.
3.23 x 1.45=4.68 second gear, and
2.94 x 1.54=4.53 with the A999. Low gear will now be
7.93/A904, versus 8.06/A999 . But the hiway is
3.23 versus 2.94; advantage of 9% to the 2.94s so ~4.5% less fuel consumption
If you start adding up the advantages of smaller cams and less rear gears and the A999, it should quickly become apparent which way to go.
And besides all that, if you have to rebuild a 360, it costs less for hi-compression pistons, and you don't have to cut anything. Throw on a set of small-chamber alloy heads and you can run 11/1 easy enough,and pick up better economy in street driving as well.
Whatever you decide, I am not a 318 hater. The numbers speak for themselves.
Thank you for this! I love the numerical breakdowns with factual backing! thank you!!!
 
This seems familiar I think you posted this question on FB as well? Glad to see you asking here you'll get much better answers.

Since you're running a 727 the mileage will never be that great and the difference in mileage between a 318 and 360 using that trans will be less than if you were using say a 904 or some type of manual trans. Also since you already plan to use tall 2.94 gears my vote is for the 360 Magnum. Just a prediction but if you built both a 318 and 360 to a similar level and put them in that car with that transmission and gearing, the 318 would get only slightly better mileage (1-3 MPG) while being noticeably less "punchy".

If you were willing to swap to a 904 then I'd lean more towards the 318 because you'll actually be able to achieve worthwhile gas mileage. Note 'back in the day' the slant-6 and 318 cars had lighter and smaller drivetrain parts (904, 7 1/4" rear end) because with a smaller engine frictional losses become more apparent and make the engine have to work harder than it should. Part of the reason why a stock 5.9L Magnum in a 4200-lb Dakota with a 46RE (727-based 4-speed OD auto) averages 13 MPG but put that same engine in an A-body with a manual trans and mileage "magically" goes way up to the 15-20+ range depending on gearing. Same goes for the G3 Hemi, even in stock applications a newer Ram 1500 will get much worse mileage than a 300/Charger/Challenger with the same 5.7L Hemi due to the weight, aerodynamics and increased friction from the heavier drivetrain parts in a full-size pickup.
I did indeed post on Facebook aswell, I have already found im getting much better and more logical answers here!
 
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