Dany's Magnum swap starter engagement issues

[motorpirate]

So Danys Magnum swap into our '66 Cuda is almost done.
Only thing missing is a heater hose nipple that the local parts place will have in the morning.
So we decide to start it up with no coolant for a second and see what it sounds like.
Horrible grinding, no engine turning!!!
I mean like a Chevy with the nose broke off the starter!!
A little background:
'66 Barracuda originally a 273/904.
Engine and trans original to the car and in working order
Magnum installation went without surprises as we read literally every word on here first.
Except...
When we bought the engine i told them i needed the flex plate and starter off the donor vehicle.
A 2000 Durango.
When we went to put the Durango starter on it would not fit as it is hitting a projection on the block that is not there on the 273.
Not to be delayed we put the original starter back on. And it fit.
Now with the original Trans/converter/starter the starter does not have enough "throw" to engage the ring gear on the torque converter!!
I can only think the Magnum flex plate has moved the converter back just a bit??
I mean this bellhousing and starter and converter are all original to the car and the only thing different is the flex plate, right??
As to the Mini starter not fitting it was not with the engine when we picked it up and came off a shelf in the office when I asked about it, so not "really" sure it is correct.
I'm going to take it to the parts place with me in the AM and have them pull one for comparison to make sure it's the right application.

So, Our questions are:

If the mini starter is correct is it hitting the block because an early A starter is closer to the crank centerline? I know all about the early VS late converters, but do they have different diameter ring gears?

Does the Mini starter have more "throw" so it will reach the converter in its new position if we grind the offending bump off the block? Not looking forward to that now that the motor and Doug's headers are already installed!!

We are using the original Magnum Flexplate as it has the weights on it.
Any alternatives to this?

I cannot believe after all this the motor is probably coming back out...
HELP!!

 

[motorpirate]

Some pics

 

[Dubob]

Sounds like they gave you the wrong starter. I thought the minis were all interchangeable. But I’ve been wrong before. You’re using the original trans and converter to the car. The only thing I can think is the register in the crank where the converter goes isn’t machined or possibly is the wrong diameter and pushing the converter out maybe. One other thought is the flex plate installed correctly as far as the proper side facing the block. Just some random thoughts on my end.

 

[motorpirate]

Sounds like they gave you the wrong starter. I thought the minis were all interchangeable. But I’ve been wrong before. You’re using the original trans and converter to the car. The only thing I can think is the register in the crank where the converter goes isn’t machined or possibly is the wrong diameter and pushing the converter out maybe. One other thought is the flex plate installed correctly as far as the proper side facing the block. Just some random thoughts on my end.

I have an adaptor for the small register vs big crank hole now.
Flex plate is installed with the crank sensor ring towards the trans.
I am hoping the starter is wrong.

 

[motorpirate]

So Danys Magnum swap into our '66 Cuda is almost done.
Only thing missing is a heater hose nipple that the local parts place will have in the morning.
So we decide to start it up with no coolant for a second and see what it sounds like.
Horrible grinding, no engine turning!!!
I mean like a Chevy with the nose broke off the starter!!
A little background:
'66 Barracuda originally a 273/904.
Engine and trans original to the car and in working order
Magnum installation went without surprises as we read literally every word on here first.
Except...
When we bought the engine i told them i needed the flex plate and starter off the donor vehicle.
A 2000 Durango.
When we went to put the Durango starter on it would not fit as it is hitting a projection on the block that is not there on the 273.
Not to be delayed we put the original starter back on. And it fit.
Now with the original Trans/converter/starter the starter does not have enough "throw" to engage the ring gear on the torque converter!!
I can only think the Magnum flex plate has moved the converter back just a bit??
I mean this bellhousing and starter and converter are all original to the car and the only thing different is the flex plate, right??
As to the Mini starter not fitting it was not with the engine when we picked it up and came off a shelf in the office when I asked about it, so not "really" sure it is correct.
I'm going to take it to the parts place with me in the AM and have them pull one for comparison to make sure it's the right application.

So, Our questions are:

If the mini starter is correct is it hitting the block because an early A starter is closer to the crank centerline? I know all about the early VS late converters, but do they have different diameter ring gears?

Does the Mini starter have more "throw" so it will reach the converter in its new position if we grind the offending bump off the block? Not looking forward to that now that the motor and Doug's headers are already installed!!

We are using the original Magnum Flexplate as it has the weights on it.
Any alternatives to this?

I cannot believe after all this the motor is probably coming back out...
HELP!!

Problem solved!!!!
Bendix drive of the original starter hitting the tone ring of the Magnum flex plate.
Mini starter hitting a projection on the Magnum block.
Die grindered it off and the Mini starter fits!!
An early A trans must have the starter closer to the centerline of the block than later transmissions...

 

[Dubob]

Thank you for posting your finds and what fixed it.

 

[motorpirate]

Thank you for posting your finds and what fixed it.

I have a whole list...
Going to make a separate post for it.

 

[MopaR&D]

Problem solved!!!!
Bendix drive of the original starter hitting the tone ring of the Magnum flex plate.
Mini starter hitting a projection on the Magnum block.
Die grindered it off and the Mini starter fits!!
An early A trans must have the starter closer to the centerline of the block than later transmissions...

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I had this same exact problem with a Magnum block hooked up to an old 904 in my Duster. I think all the pre-Magnum transmissions have the starter located differently, or maybe the 904 I got was made for an early A-body (I'm not totally sure of the year). I couldn't try an older "jumbo" starter because of my headers so I ended up having to clearance the block just like you did.

 

[triumphman]

I had the same problem with the block. And grinding was the answer. I used the original factory flex plate from my 75 Swinger with the 318/904. However, my last issue is a vibration. Early magnums were externally balanced, while later were internally. Changed balancer's 3 x, flex plates and torque converters.
I am interested with your results.

 

[motorpirate]

I had the same problem with the block. And grinding was the answer. I used the original factory flex plate from my 75 Swinger with the 318/904. However, my last issue is a vibration. Early magnums were externally balanced, while later were internally. Changed balancer's 3 x, flex plates and torque converters.
I am interested with your results.

we have a 5.9 with an early magnum truck balancer and the original Magnum flex plate with weights.
No vibration issues.

 

[Bobzilla]

I had the same problem with the block. And grinding was the answer. I used the original factory flex plate from my 75 Swinger with the 318/904. However, my last issue is a vibration. Early magnums were externally balanced, while later were internally. Changed balancer's 3 x, flex plates and torque converters.
I am interested with your results.

Are you running a 5.9 or 5.2 Magnum? All 5.9 Magnums have the same external balance, but they changed the location of the weight from torque converter on earlier 5.9 to the flex plate on the later 5.9. They also changed the style of the balancer, but they were weighted the same.

 

[ed1946]

I had the same problem with the block. And grinding was the answer. I used the original factory flex plate from my 75 Swinger with the 318/904. However, my last issue is a vibration. Early magnums were externally balanced, while later were internally. Changed balancer's 3 x, flex plates and torque converters.
I am interested with your results.

Just tried to mount mini starter on my 904 and couldn't get bottom bolt in. Ended up up grinding on block to get it to fit.

 

[mtolley]

Would this be a 904 issue, or does the block need to ground when using a 727? Would rather grind the block now when its on the stand.

 

[ed1946]

Would this be a 904 issue, or does the block need to ground when using a 727? Would rather grind the block now when its on the stand.

I didn't think there was much difference between front on both but could be wrong. Didn't take long to grind down.

 

[rdunnam]

I understand from a friend, you can also just grind a small amount from the starter itself, same difference, it will work.