Demon door?? Which others fit?

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wkroncke17

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I'm in need of a drivers side door for a '72 Demon.
I need a memory refreshing - will any year Dart/Duster door fit?
I want the inside door handle in the same spot, so 67 - 72?
If the door is off of (for example) '67 Dart, the vent frame and glass can just be removed, correct?
Any tips or advice concerning doors of this type?
Thanks all!!

Wally.
 
Your looking for a 70 to 72 only dart duster demon door. We have a few if needed.
 
No Not without major surgery.

Describe the "major surgery" needed. The handles and interior door releases are in the same place, and the outer shell is identical. The outer door skin is the same from 67 to 76 as long as you leave out the '67/68 post cars and stick to hard tops or the Duster/Demon body. The door frame changed with changes to the interior, door handle location, side impact bar etc for the 73+ cars. There were also changes to the internal mechanisms for glass mounting etc on shorter year runs, but that only matters if you already have the glass and try to mount it in a door with hardware from a different year.

The problem with using a Dart door on a Demon or Duster (or even a later dart sport) is that the internal window mechanisms and hardware are different and mount in different locations (different window track locations, etc). The door shell/frame is the same, but you'd have to drill the holes in the door frame to mount the window crank, window tracks, stops, etc. Since a '67-69 door would have to be from a Dart, you would need to drill all the mounting holes in the door frame for the '70-'72 Demon/Duster window hardware.

I have two sets of early doors for my '74 Duster, one from a '72 Dart and one from a '70 Duster. Since it's a '71 demon tribute, and because I dislike the later plastic door trim, I wanted to replace the later doors in favor of the earlier ones to change the interior over. From the outside the doors are the same, the pre-73 doors obviously have the metal tops and earlier handle and window crank locations, so the later glass and interior parts are not compatible. But the shell itself is basically the same. The '72 Dart doors I have are in a little better shape, but I'm using the Duster doors just because I don't feel like locating all the mounting holes for the window mechanisms. Obviously, if you use door shells from a Dart you still need to get all of the glass and window mechanisms from a Duster or Demon, as the internal hardware is different.

I believe that the '72 model year glass is different in how it mounts, so the internal hardware is a little different, meaning you wouldn't want to try to use '72 glass with '70-71 hardware. Keep the glass and hardware matched up and all you should have to do is locate the mounting holes.
 
Ok, I think I get it now.
Because the Dart door has a smaller window that rolls up and down, to mount a Demon/Duster window in one would take some work, and the vent window would need to be removed.
Has anyone done this??

Thanks all for the assistance!!
 
Like I said earlier major surgery.

Removing the vent window and drilling the mounting holes is not major surgery. All it takes is a couple wrenches, a screwdriver and a drill. A little patience to make sure you get the window fit and drill the mounting holes in the right spot.

No welding, no cutting- it's not major surgery. Is it probably easier to find a duster/demon door? Sure, it probably is in a lot of places. But it's definitely not major surgery. I'll post the pictures of the door frames I have tomorrow, you'll see what I mean.
 
Problem being is most average people cant do what you are saying. We do it day in n out but have been building mopars for 30 plus years.
 
Removing the vent window and drilling the mounting holes is not major surgery. All it takes is a couple wrenches, a screwdriver and a drill. A little patience to make sure you get the window fit and drill the mounting holes in the right spot.

No welding, no cutting- it's not major surgery. Is it probably easier to find a duster/demon door? Sure, it probably is in a lot of places. But it's definitely not major surgery. I'll post the pictures of the door frames I have tomorrow, you'll see what I mean.

Very interesting......if you can post pics, I may be able to handle this between my body man and I.
I asked Cuda Junction for a price, I have access to a really good '69 Dart door.
We'll have to see which way would be easier/cost effective.

A big thank you to both of you guys for chiming in!

Wally
 
Alright, you got me, I was wrong. I'm not sure I'd call it major surgery, but it does require a lot more work than I thought.

The door skins and shells ARE the same. But, as I already said, the window mechanisms, tracks, etc, are all different.

What I didn't know is that there are a couple of internal brackets that are also different. On the Duster door, there are two internal brackets at the top of the door that are used to mount the window guides that are not present on the Dart doors. On the Dart doors, there is an internal bracket for the vent window that is not present on the Duster doors. All of these brackets are just spot welded to the door frame on the inside of the door, but unless you wanted to spend a lot of time custom fitting a set of brackets, you would need donor brackets from the model you wanted.

Finally, there was another thing I didn't even realize- the mirror location is different between a Dart and a Duster/Demon. On the Dart's, the mirror is located at the post for the vent window. That location is about 4" further back than on the Duster/Demon doors, which don't have a vent window to worry about.

So, while the skins and shells are the same, swapping the window mechanisms between models is a big enough problem that it's probably not worthwhile for most folks. The only way it would really be feasible is if your original doors were badly damaged or rusted, and you had a clean set of doors from the wrong model car. Then you'd have the internal brackets to swap over. That would be on a similar skill level as say replacing a tail panel or doing a quarter panel section though. Not really hard, but definitely an operation that requires some skill to get right.
 
Ok, so I labeled some pictures to show the differences between my '71 Duster doors and '72 Dart doors.

Here's the inside of the door shell. You can see that the door frame stamping is identical. The red arrows on the duster door show the bolts for mounting the Duster window mechanism. All of the bolts go straight into the mechanism, so the door frame would just get holes drilled-easy. Not so easy are the internal brackets that are used for mounting the window guides in the Duster/Demon door. I highlighted their locations with the dotted lines (you can see the spot welds inside the edges of the dotted lines, it's a lot more obvious in person). The brackets are different between the two doors. If you wanted to make a Dart door into a Duster door, you would have to either fabricate the brackets to mount the tops of the window guides, or remove them from another Duster/Demon door. To do the opposite, you would have to fabricate the bracket for the vent window. The vent window bracket is pretty simple, it's in a later picture. The brackets would be the biggest headache.

doors_zpsn7xyrfax.jpg
 
Here's the bottom of the door. You can see on the Duster door all of the bolt heads for mounting the window track, guides and stops. All of those bolts go straight into the hardware, you'd just need to drill the holes to convert a Dart door for a Duster. If you were doing the reverse, the bracket you can see through the hole in the Dart door IS present on the inside of the Duster door- you could just drill the hole.

IMG_2833_zpsrsgm3gvc.jpg


On the lock side of the door, the Dart door has an access hole and a bolt to mount the window track. Once again, you'd just need to drill the holes if you were converting a Duster door for a Dart. To convert the Dart door for a Duster, you just have extra holes.

IMG_2836_zps9uzkdmt7.jpg


On the hinge side of the door, same deal as the lock side. The Dart door has an access hole for mounting the vent window. So, using the Dart door for a Duster, you'd just have an extra hole. To use a Duster door for a Dart, you'd need to drill the hole.

IMG_2824_zpsgydud8vf.jpg
 
Here's the other BIG issue, beside the inner mounting brackets. The mirrors are not in the same location. The Dart mirror is almost 4" further back, this is to line it up with the post for the vent window. For a passenger door, maybe not an issue (most didn't have mirrors). For the drivers door, it's an issue. The Dart door would work on a Duster, the mirror would just be further back in the less visible dart location (and obviously not "correct"). But on the reverse, the duster mirror location would interfere with the vent window. You can also see the internal bracket for mounting the vent window. Can't see on the Duster door because its still got the window in it, but that bracket obviously isn't there because of the window.

IMG_2828_zps6e9cth32.jpg


Now, this is all for the '70-'72 doors. '67-69 doors would all look like the Dart door, and you would need to fabricate the internal mounting brackets to make it work for a Duster/Demon. The lock rod location also changed on those doors depending on the year, but that's not really a problem, just a year correct issue.

I don't have a '73+ Dart door. While the interior panels would only match the '73+ cars, I'd be willing to bet that the conversion between a '73-76 Dart or Duster/Dart Sport would be easier, because the '73+ Dart's didn't have vent windows. So, no vent wing bracket to get in the way. But I don't have a 73+ Dart door, so I don't know if the guides/tracks are different than the 73+ Duster stuff. And the '73 year was a "one year only" deal for the internal mechanisms.
 
Like I said from doing these cars major surgery. 73 up doors are almost worse more work because the inner door upper is completley different.
 
Like I said from doing these cars major surgery. 73 up doors are almost worse more work because the inner door upper is completley different.

Yes, you were right. Of course you didn't explain the differences, or point out why it was major surgery.

And really, I still don't think its "major" surgery. It's no harder than replacing a rusty lower quarter panel section, and most of these cars need that nowadays. All you need is a spot weld cutter/drill and a MIG welder for some spot welds. I won't be doing it myself because my Duster doors are in good enough condition to not make it worthwhile, but that doesn't mean it might not be useful for someone else.
 
The lock cylinder is in a different position in 67 than 68 and up. I measured them both in the past and they were different for sure. The lock rods were different as well due to the different location of the lock cylinder.
 
Interesting that they are the same shell. I checked my 70 and 71 Dart doors and both have the two rectangular indents on the bottom where the Duster and Demon window tracks attach.

I don't have 67-69 Dart doors to check, but do they have these rectangular indents as well? I know the radical window design used on the Duster was years in the making, so would be interesting to know when they put those recessed versions into main production. I doubt they would have put them there for any other reason.

Grant
 
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