Do you start your 727 burnout in 1st or second?

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I was told along time ago that its ok to start in 1st, just get into 2nd quickly.
 
It depends on what kind of valve body you are using as to whether you do your burn out in first or second.
 
Start in 2nd and go to third. Keep rpm at or below 5k. Lift foot off brake and ease off gas while moving forward in third. NO DRY HOP

X2 and 100% correct

and this should be the last post this thread needs. I unofficially close this thread (under no authority whatsoever :)
 
With a factory valve body, what gear is the transmission in when you are dead stopped and lever in 2nd gear?
 
Pay attention to #5


Here is some info by John Cope of CRT transmissions (pictures are deleted)

There has been a lot of talk about aftermarket manual valve bodys with the low band apply feature,and for good reason. First, you should understand how the low/reverse band in Chrysler transmission works. In a stock 904 or 727, the low/reverse band is applied when the gear selector is in R / reverse and/or L / first gear, sometimes called low one.When the gear selector is in the D position and the transmisssion is in first gear, the low/reverse band is NOT applied. So, the low/reverse band does not have to be on to get first gear. When the low/reverse band is on or applied, the band is applied around the low/reverse drum. The low/reverse drum is splined to the overrunning clutch, also called the sprage.

727 low/reverse drum,low/reverse band,sprage race

When a 727 or 904 transmission is in first gear, D, or L the sprage is in the locked position. ( note: the sprage free wheels in 2nd & 3rd gear) Having the low/reverse band on will keep the sprage in the locked position under heavy or high performance loads. Now, the sprage AND the low/reverse band are working together to keep the low/reverse drum in the locked or stopped position. You can try this in your rear wheel drive mopar or your Dodge ram. Test drive the car or truck with the gear selector in D. Note the feel of the 1-2 shift, then put the gear selector in L, shift to 2, and you will feel the bands overlap. The shift will not be as quick and or firm. (note: the KD band comes on / is applied in second gear) This is the problem that aftermarket valve bodys had when making the 1-2 shift in racing transmissions. As we all know, when racing we want quick/firm shifts, if not, we would have probs with burning up bands because band over lap is having both bands on at the same time, or the timing of the bands coming on then off to make a clean and firm 1-2 shift. So what was the only solution (at the time) to make the 727 & 904 have a clean and firm 1-2 shift? Leave the low/reverse band off/unapplied in first gear. Remember, the low/reverse band does not have to be on/applied in first gear, to get first gear.
Now, by leaving the low/reverse band off, the sprage has to do all the holding of the low/reverse drum. This now makes the sprage a weak point in the 727 trans because the low/reverse band is not applied along with the sprage.

What happens to a 727 when the sprage fails? The transmission will free-wheel at 2x the eng. RPM. When this happens, and the stock steel front drum is in the transmission, the front drum will explode.


This 727 was in a 11 second bracket car,that did NOT have low band apply.
How fast are you going ?

Now that you know what can happen when having the low/reverse band off/unapplyed when running a stock steel front drum, it's like having a time bomb strapped to your car. Do you want a valve body with low band apply? I know I do.

How can the 727 sprage fail in a racing transmission ?

1. Any time the sprage is shocked, you break a U-joint, axle, or ring&pinon, it can cause sprages to fail
2. Driver error. In the heat of competition/excitement a driver could accidently nuetral-drop the transmission. I know what your thinking, I've never done that. But it could happen.
3. If the carb or ignition causes a back-fire and the car noses down and picks back up, or if you get in and out of the throttle while in first gear, you can damage the sprage.
4. If the car hooks, then the tires spin, then hooks again, the sprage can fail. And I know none of us have EVER had traction probs. (yeah, right)
5. Doing burn outs, starting in first gear is the biggest no-no of all. Burn outs should be done starting in 2nd gear and shifting into 3rd gear.
All 5 conditions are while in first gear.

How can you tell if your manual valve body does or does not have low band apply in first gear?
With the transmission in first gear and driving about 20 MPH , let out of the throttle, if the car goes to idle and the motor does not help the car slow down, (engine braking) you do NOT have low band apply in first gear. If you car slows down and the motor helps slow the car down, you DO have low band apply in first gear. Note: If you know you have a valve body with low band apply in first gear and your car does not have engine braking, your low reverse band may be out of adjustment or you may have a broken band strut, or you have a cracked low reverse pistion. Checkng to see if your low band apply is working ,you can test this by checking the engine braking in first gear.

I must let you know that Rick from A&A transmission is the leader in low band apply technology. All CRT transmissions with manual valve bodys and trans-brakes, come with the low-band technology.
CRT is a authorized A&A dealer.

71chally416:
I saw one explode way back in the early 70's at the old Srato-Rods track on McQuire AFB in a similar Max-Wedge car. It's hard to believe decades later people still don't know how to do a burnout right. I know the proper method was even listed in the old white race manual I bought in the 70's. :clueless:

71chally416:
And BTW, I've seen people blow their motors in the burnout box more than once when they reved out of site because of the lack of a rev limiter. I saw a cherry '69 Chevele barrel roll through the lights because the axel tubes weren't welded and the center part of the rear (12 bolt) decided to change locations. It was facing the back when the car went by on a rollback smashed beyond regognition. I saw TWO 10'5" tire class cars do similar barrel rolls at the same race at Cecil Co Maryland when they blew their boosted motors and got in the water going through the traps. One of the drivers was air-lifted out in a copter and I doubt that he lived after looking at the car (Early Nova that looked like it came out of a car crusher) There are many pitfalls in racing. If you don't have the right parts and don't use the proper driving techniques you will find out what they are in a hurry. Even a bad weld can bite you :lol:


6packCuda:
I saw that car at the muscle car reunion at KCIR.
 
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I was told along time ago that its ok to start in 1st, just get into 2nd quickly.


Did my burnout like that for upteen years with 727...Reverse Manual Cheetah valve body...Turbo Action...always a shift ahead...
 
Instructions from TA RMVB....

Chrysler/Amer. Mtrs. 727, 904î, ì998î & ì999î Transmissions

All water burnouts should be started in second gear and shift to third if necessary. If you should
start burnout in first, shift immediately to second before tires come out of water. No matter whether
it be second or third gear you are in as you come out of the water, you should start to deaccelerate
engine or do a power burnout directly to the staging line being sure tires never grab dry pavement.
The power burnout provides the best E.T.ís if no dry burnouts are done.
 
Just and add on. Do not do your burn out in the water box. Roll through the water box then start your burn.
Start in second go to third. If you cant rpm in 3rd stay in 2nd. If you still cant rpm drive around the water box. The starting line will have enough glue for your attempt.
 
..............A non manual vb should always be started it 1st gear and kept in 1st gear during a burn out.........kim.........

maybe I missed something here, (only 2 cups so far) how do you start a burn out in second w/ a fully auto valve body, put it in second, and it`s still going to go thru low gear !
mine does have low band apply. will it shift fast enough to second if you start in the second position ? food for thot . :coffee2::coffee2:
 
maybe I missed something here, (only 2 cups so far) how do you start a burn out in second w/ a fully auto valve body, put it in second, and it`s still going to go thru low gear !
mine does have low band apply. will it shift fast enough to second if you start in the second position ? food for thot . :coffee2::coffee2:

You have nothing to worry about with stock valve body sense it has the lor/reverse band applied in low gear. TA and other manual valve bodies without lba are extremely dangerous in low gear.
 
I don't mean to derail the thread but it seems like we have a solid answer for it already.

I would love to do a test to see just how much water is flung into the wheel well if a burnout is done in the water box or if you do a quick spin when running through the water. I was always told to roll through the water and then burnout. I have seen a lot of guys give it a quick spin when going through the water though and I have seen guys stop in the water and burnout. I'm just curious if there is really much water at all going into the wheel wells on any of them.
 
Just and add on. Do not do your burn out in the water box. Roll through the water box then start your burn.
Start in second go to third. If you cant rpm in 3rd stay in 2nd. If you still cant rpm drive around the water box. The starting line will have enough glue for your attempt.


This is huge. I see a lot of guys spinning in the water. Then they do the burnout, and then drive out to the line. You have to spin them in the water to get them wet. Then move out of the water to do the burnout, and I always power out and apply the brakes. Then the tires are dry and sticky.
 
This is huge. I see a lot of guys spinning in the water. Then they do the burnout, and then drive out to the line. You have to spin them in the water to get them wet. Then move out of the water to do the burnout, and I always power out and apply the brakes. Then the tires are dry and sticky.

See that's what I'm talking about. I have heard guys go nuts about that sayying it throws water in the wheel wells. I always wondered just how much water actually ended up dripping down.
 
I have never spun mine in the box. If you look when they spray the water they spay it over a good sized patch (typically in and before the water box . They don't just fill up a little canal. In fact I recommend you drive about 1.5 to 2.5 feet past the indention before you start your burn out.
 
I have a non low band apply RMV body, I pull to the front edge of the box & barely turn the tires to shed most of the water, put it in second heat the tires, shifting to high as I roll forward. I've only killed one sprag I many years & that was because I shelled the ring & pinion.
 
Is the moral of the story 904's are stronger than 727's in the water box?
 
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