dougs headers dont clear my z-bar clutch linkage

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dans4door1970

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Installing my 408 in my 1970 dart with an 833 4 speed. Got the drivers side Doug header in. My clutch linkage is sitting against the inside of the header. It will move but is touching the tube. It is the end that connects the clutch fork to the zbar. Can I not use the spacer that connects the zbar to the bell housing or is there a spacer that is thinner as I don't need much. The passenger side requires the torsion bar be removed. Hate these moments. Any tips will surely help
 
dans4door1970 said:
Installing my 408 in my 1970 dart with an 833 4 speed. Got the drivers side Doug header in. My clutch linkage is sitting against the inside of the header. It will move but is touching the tube. It is the end that connects the clutch fork to the zbar. Can I not use the spacer that connects the zbar to the bell housing or is there a spacer that is thinner as I don't need much. The passenger side requires the torsion bar be removed. Hate these moments. Any tips will surely help
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Had the same issue on my Dart when I had TTI's on it. I had to offset the bottom "arm" or dog leg out towards the end of the Z bar tube in order to get it to clear. I'm using Doug's headers now and it would have rubbed them also had I not already made the change. Sucks I know, but there isn't a lot of room in that area with headers or at least TTI's and Doug's. I didn't want to crimp my nice new headers so that's why I reworked the zbar. Way back in the day, I ran Hookers and there wasn't any issues with the zbar or the factory starter as far as clearance went. The headaches began after I redid the car and used something other than what I knew to work. Live and learn I guess.
 
I seem to remember modding the bar was even part of their instructions for installation.
Or maybe I just remember people that had to do it, not sure.
 
TrailBeast said:
I seem to remember modding the bar was even part of their instructions for installation.
Or maybe I just remember people that had to do it, not sure.
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You're right Trailbeast. TTI even sells an offset zbar for this problem. Not sure about Doug's.
 
TrailBeast said:
Hey, I get pissed because I have to wear my reading glasses under my welding helmet. :D
So yea, it's coming.
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The way I'm going, I'm gonna need a seeing eye dog to show lead me to my Dart so I can sit in it and try to find the ignition switch.
 
Yes, you must modify the Z Bar to clear the header tubes. As I recall you need to bend the lower leg of the bar in to the passenger side in the form of a "dog leg" "jitty jog" "Z bend" or whatever you want to call it. I cut mine off and made a new one.

Mini starter helps too.

Also, my Doug's hit two ears at the 3 and 9 o'clock position on the bell housing so watch for that.
 
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416stroker said:
Had the same issue on my Dart when I had TTI's on it. I had to offset the bottom "arm" or dog leg out towards the end of the Z bar tube in order to get it to clear. I'm using Doug's headers now and it would have rubbed them also had I not already made the change. Sucks I know, but there isn't a lot of room in that area with headers or at least TTI's and Doug's. I didn't want to crimp my nice new headers so that's why I reworked the zbar. Way back in the day, I ran Hookers and there wasn't any issues with the zbar or the factory starter as far as clearance went. The headaches began after I redid the car and used something other than what I knew to work. Live and learn I guess.
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Can I remove the zbar with the engine and header already installed?
 
Doug's and TTI both call for a modified Z-bar, it's right in the installation instructions on both. The Doug's headers can use the TTI modified Z-bar, so you can either modify your stock Z-bar to TTI specs or just buy one from TTI. I modified mine, it fits fine with my 340 and Doug's 453's.

And yes, you can remove the Z-bar with the engine and headers installed. I think you'll have to drop the starter to do it though, I can't remember. I know I've had my Z-bar off the car with the engine and headers installed though.

Here's what the modified z-bar looks like. Basically you take the arm for the clutch adjuster, cut it off the Z-bar, slide it down to the very end of the z bar and reverse it so that the clutch adjuster stud faces inside instead of out and weld the arm back on. It's a pretty simple operation if you have a welder.

IMG_1390_zps5482280e.jpg


Here's the specs on the stock and modified Z-bars. I labeled it Doug's because that's what I have, but it's from the TTI website. The full sized PDF file is below, but here's a screenshot of it so you can see the picture without a download if you're worried about that sort of thing.
Screen Shot 2016-09-08 at 1.01.24 PM.png
 

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^^ this is correct. My fist Z bar I bent the second one got a new arm relocated.
 
72bluNblu said:
Doug's and TTI both call for a modified Z-bar, it's right in the installation instructions on both. The Doug's headers can use the TTI modified Z-bar, so you can either modify your stock Z-bar to TTI specs or just buy one from TTI. I modified mine, it fits fine with my 340 and Doug's 453's.

And yes, you can remove the Z-bar with the engine and headers installed. I think you'll have to drop the starter to do it though, I can't remember. I know I've had my Z-bar off the car with the engine and headers installed though.

Here's what the modified z-bar looks like. Basically you take the arm for the clutch adjuster, cut it off the Z-bar, slide it down to the very end of the z bar and reverse it so that the clutch adjuster stud faces inside instead of out and weld the arm back on. It's a pretty simple operation if you have a welder.

IMG_1390_zps5482280e.jpg


Here's the specs on the stock and modified Z-bars. I labeled it Doug's because that's what I have, but it's from the TTI website. The full sized PDF file is below, but here's a screenshot of it so you can see the picture without a download if you're worried about that sort of thing.
View attachment 1714966345
Click to expand...
Awsome help. I ordered the TTi zbar and Brewers performance is sending me a new ball **** and rebuild kit for both ends. Thanks so much. Now I can sleep tonight instead of being perplexed!!! Your the best!!!!
 
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