I have pulled the 7 1/4 rear end and replaced it with an 8 1/4, I have everything I need for brakes (all new) but the E-Brake hardware, my question is will all the hardware for the E-Brake that is on my 7 1/4 work in my 8 1/4 ?
E-Brake help please
- Thread starter memike
- Start date
-
Daves69
Well-Known Member
Not really sure. If it helps, the '69 parts book lists the part numbers by brake diameter, not by brake width or differential size. They have different part numbers between 9", 10", and 11" applications.
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
I have (heard and read) that they do interchange, but I wouldn't put money on it.
Keep those U bolt style cable clamps in mind.
Keep those U bolt style cable clamps in mind.
Are you running the same diameter brakes on both? Then I think it should.
There are two types of e-brakes for the a-bodies, one with equal length rear cables, and one with unequal length cables that meet on the driver's side....
Use about a 9/16" or 1/2" deep well socket or box end wrench over the end to press the "tangs" in to remove the old cable from the old backing plate...
Work a little lithium grease on the strand and then work it through the cable to lube it while you got the old cables off...
Last edited:
What year is the 7-1/4? Small bolt or large?
A body 8.25 will be 73-up large bolt pattern and likely have 10x2.5.
If both are the same drum/shoe size/width they should swap.
Exactly right. The emergency brake hardware is based entirely on the diameter of the brakes. If you have 10" brakes on both rear axles all of the e-brake hardware should swap right over. The width of the brake pads doesn't matter, neither does BBP or SBP as long as you're just talking about the e-brake hardware. Or any of the self adjuster hardware for that matter.
The strut rod for the narrower brakes is different, they had to put a bend in it. the wider brake strut has no bend...
mguner
How many is too many?
All the cable stuff from the 7.25 9" brakes on my 68 worked on the B-body 8.75 with 10" brakes. Seems like I had to back off the adjuster nut up front a bit.
Yep, there is an adjuster and with the hand lever you can also "adjust" until the e-brake is engaged... You can "work out the slack"...
whitepunkonnitro
Well-Known Member
The 8.25 would come from 73-up car which has equal length cables. All 63-66 cars also have the equal length setup, so yes.
67-71 cars use one long/one short cable.
67-71 cars use one long/one short cable.
There are a bunch of different looking brake struts from different manufacturers, they all look a little different. But, they all interchange, and the bends on all of them are the same as long as you're talking about the same outer diameter brakes. Here's a bunch of brake bars from a bunch of different manufacturers. These are for 11" drums. One of them I personally removed from a 11x2" set up. You can see that they're all the same as far as length, they all bend the same amount. Some are a little sturdier, but they all interchange. I don't like the kind that doesn't have the extra flange on it, so I change out the "flat" ones for the kind with the flange. But the flange doesn't interfere with anything, even on the narrower shoes.
As in, the brake cables going from the e-brake back to the drum. Yes, all the cables are the same length (although the set up is different by year), they don't make different e-brake cables for 9, 10, or 11" rear drums. I've switched all of my cars over to 11x2.5" rear drums and never had to do anything with the cables except re-adjust them. The brake struts, levers, and all of the adjusting hardware has to match the diameter, it can't be swapped from say 10" brakes to 11" brakes. But it's the same for all the different shoe widths.
Last edited:
The e-body 10" x 2 1/2" rear brake strut does not have that bend...
Our e-body is assembled and I can't get a picture of it...
Our e-body is assembled and I can't get a picture of it...
Not sure where your e-body brake struts came from, but the set on my challenger looked exactly like the 11" ones I posted above. And had a Mopar part number on it just like the flat one I posted above. A little shorter, obviously, but the same exact shape. I've never seen a set for one of these Mopar set ups that didn't look like that. You can go on eBay and search 10" Mopar drum brakes, all the brake struts look exactly like one of the kinds I posted above.
And even if they didn't, the "bent" ones like the ones I posted above fit the 2.5" wide brakes. The other 3 I posted above came from 11x2.5" brakes. I have 6 sets of 11x2.5" rear drums, two sets of 11x2's, 2 sets of SBP 10" rear drums, and one set of 10x2.5's now but I've sold 3 more, they all looked the same. Obviously the 10" and 11" hardware doesn't interchange, but the shape is the same, just a different length.
Last edited:
No large bent end like your picture on any of the 10" brake struts I've had through my hands in the last few years. At best just a very small bend of the end of the tips.
The 11 inchers on my Demon look exactly like your picture.
Only ones with as much of the end bent as in your picture I found on a quick ebay search were for 11" brakes.
Here's a couple of the 10" sets I've had.
The ends on those are bent. It's hard to tell in the pictures, but they are.
These are 10x2.5" brake bars, with original part numbers. The first two are for e-bodies, the last one is a 10x2.5" for a 73-76 duster.
These are 10x2.5" brake bars, with original part numbers. The first two are for e-bodies, the last one is a 10x2.5" for a 73-76 duster.
Last edited:
Yes, a very small piece of the end tips are bent about 45* on the sets I pictured.
Not at all like the ones you pictured and said the 10" pieces were the "same exact shape" and "the set on my challenger looked exactly like the 11" ones I posted above".
Not trying to be too picky here, but it is clearly visible and a fairly large difference.
Not at all like the ones you pictured and said the 10" pieces were the "same exact shape" and "the set on my challenger looked exactly like the 11" ones I posted above".
Not trying to be too picky here, but it is clearly visible and a fairly large difference.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 25,838
- Reaction score
- 13,144
In 17 years of driving my S, I cannot remember ever using the E-brake. Actually, come to think of it, I bet I haven't applied an E-brake on any of my cars in 47 or so years, not counting the one time I needed it and it didn't work; go figure. I think that was about 1979. Mine worked in the S in 1999. It had to, to pass safety. I refurbished the cables. It took hours over days,to get those seized 1969 cables working again.
I had a box of about 6 different sets of cables from A-body cars I had parted out over the years. They were all from 67 to 73 cars and either 9s or 10s. I am pretty sure there were some that had shorter inner cables in them, and would not fit with my hardware. But I found two that did work, and that was why I was forced to make them work. That's what I remember, lol.
I had a box of about 6 different sets of cables from A-body cars I had parted out over the years. They were all from 67 to 73 cars and either 9s or 10s. I am pretty sure there were some that had shorter inner cables in them, and would not fit with my hardware. But I found two that did work, and that was why I was forced to make them work. That's what I remember, lol.
Last edited:
So show pictures of the strut bars removed from the brakes and not on edge from the bar so that the lack of curvature is obvious. Because I see the pictures you posted, and what you're describing is NOT obvious. And the second set of pictures I posted ARE all 10" brake bars, the stamped part #'s match the factory parts book. The shape is the same as the 11's I posted.
Which makes complete sense, because the axle flange offset and backing plate offset are identical for the 10x2.5 and 11x2.5" brakes. There's only one flange offset for BBP brakes, so the 10" brake struts and 11" brake struts have to clear the exact same obstacles, namely the protrusion on the backing plate where the plate bolts to the housing. Same depth on both plates, just a different width.
I'll pull the bars from my '71 Satellite and another set of 10x2.5's I've got tomorrow and take pictures. I'll even mount them on a set of 10x1.75's if I have the time. The 10's all interchange. The 11's all interchange. I suspect the 9's all interchange, but I haven't seen any of those in person to know myself, all my cars came with 10" brakes.
I think were not talking about the same area of the strut.
On the right side of all the 11" brake struts in your first picture, the end with the spring on it...compare that to the same area on the 10" struts in your last pictures. THATS where the obvious difference is in the two pieces.
I know the end is bent over on both 10" and 11". The difference is HOW MUCH of the end is bent over. The 11" piece has a much larger part of the end bent over than the 10".
On the right side of all the 11" brake struts in your first picture, the end with the spring on it...compare that to the same area on the 10" struts in your last pictures. THATS where the obvious difference is in the two pieces.
I know the end is bent over on both 10" and 11". The difference is HOW MUCH of the end is bent over. The 11" piece has a much larger part of the end bent over than the 10".
That is true, but it doesn't matter. It's not like you can exchange 11" and 10" brake struts. I was talking about the offset bends on the ends of struts, none of them are straight. And they all have the same offset.
So, to clear all of this up I went out and pulled a brake strut from a set of BBP 10x2.5" brakes I have on my 1971 Satellite (same as on an E-body). I also pulled one from a SBP 10x1.75" set I have on an A-body 8 3/4. Here's what they look like. There is a slight difference, the offset of the ends is the same, but the thickness of the strut is different (shown with arrows). The SBP 10" brake strut has a flange, and that makes the strut narrower through the middle.
As it turns out, this is where I messed up. Not all 10" brake struts interchange. They're forward compatible, but not backward compatible (at least without modification). Meaning, you can use 10" SBP brake struts on 10" BBP brakes, but not the other way around. 10" SBP brakes need 10" SBP brake struts. The offset on the ends of the brake struts is the same, the bends are the same. And either strut clears the backing plates regardless of which backing plate they're on, SBP or BBP. But, the additional thickness of the flat BBP struts causes interference on the back of the axle flange when used on the SBP 10" brakes. It's not much, only an 1/8", but it doesn't work. You could probably clearance them, but, they might not be strong enough, hence the flanged section on the SBP brake struts. What you could do is put the strut in a vise and fold part of it over so it looks like the SBP strut. That would clear, it would be plenty strong, and since the offset is the same it would fit. But, they make re-pops of the SBP struts, so unless you're cheap you don't have to do that.
However, it doesn't matter for 10" BBP brakes, as shown (no, the springs aren't hooked, but as you can see everything is seated properly, it works)
So, if you're switching from SBP 10x1.75" rear drums to BBP 10x2.5" drums, you CAN use all of the same hardware, it all fits, no problems. What you can't do is use stock, unmodified BBP 10x2.5" brake struts on SBP 10x1.75" brakes, and I was wrong about that. But all of the other stuff works, levers, springs, adjusting hardware, and cables. But not the BBP brake struts on the SBP brakes.
As for the 11" stuff, all of it interchanges. The brake struts from 11x2" brakes work on 11x2.5" brakes, and vice-versa. I tried it, it works, it doesn't matter if the struts are flat or if they have the flange, the offset of the ends is the same and they all have clearance to the axle flange. The "bent" section that captures the shoes is the same length on those as well. In fact, the flat struts are the same "thickness" as the flanged ones. Not sure why they changed, obviously the struts with the flanges are stronger than just the flat ones.
Last edited:
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 25,838
- Reaction score
- 13,144
Exceptionally nice work blu
Thanks!
I think most of this was just due to terminology. What's a bend, what's a flange, etc. Especially when there's multiple bends in different directions. Hard to know what people are talking about on the internet if you're not pointing at a picture. And then of course not all of this stuff was the same for the entire manufacturing run, like the 11" brake struts. Some are flat except for the ends (no flange), some have that lengthwise flange, but it doesn't matter at all because they all interchange for the 11" brakes.
And I knew I had seen 10" brake bars on BBP 10x2.5" brakes with the lengthwise flange on them. And I have, and I have swapped SBP 10" brake struts to BBP 10" brakes. And that works. Unfortunately I assumed it meant that it worked the other way around. It's easy enough to make it work, but it doesn't just work. A vice and a hammer and voila, they fit, but that's not a straight swap. If you do need to run BBP 10" brake struts on SBP 10" brakes just fold on the dotted line, everything else is the same.
Or buy repops, whatever's more convenient.I just like evidence. I try not to say something will work if I haven't actually done it myself, and I don't just believe everyone that says they've done something if it doesn't make sense. I've done more than a couple things on my cars that people have said wouldn't work, and I've tried a few things that people said would work but didn't. So I try to actually give proof/documentation of what works (or doesn't) and why.
reddishdsb
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2006
- Messages
- 244
- Reaction score
- 14
I am putting an 8.75 in my 73 scamp was told it came from a 70 duster it has 10x2 sbp, the cable on the rh side is much longer the the old 7.25 and is bigger in diameter, can I swap the cables from the 73 and put on the 8.75 and the adjustment bar that looks like a j bolt where does it fasten down at?
There are two different e-brake cable arrangements I'm aware of. One that uses equal length rear cables with a long intermediate cable that runs in a "U" shape and doesn't have a housing. On that arrangement each end of the intermediate cable is connected to the rear cables, one end on each side. The "middle" of the intermediate cable is attached to the housed cable that runs from the e-brake handle on one side and that J bolt on the other side in the front.
It looks like this on each end, one bracket on each side for each rear cable
And here's your J bolt, on the right hand side attached into the torsion bar cross member, holding the intermediate cable.
It fits into a slot in the crossmember, just to the outside of where the front frame rail comes in
The other arrangement uses two very different length rear cables and uses an intermediate cable that runs just down one side and has a housing. That version has both rear cables attached to the intermediate cable on the driver's side rear, with one end of the cable at the front of the car and the other at the rear.
This is what that arrangement looks like on the driver side frame rail at the back, notice the bracket is for both cables (only one is installed here though)
It doesn't matter to the brakes or the rear axle which arrangement is used, it only matters to the car. So, yes, leave the '73 arrangement on the '73, it doesn't matter for the rear axle. You just can't mix and match cables.
It looks like this on each end, one bracket on each side for each rear cable
And here's your J bolt, on the right hand side attached into the torsion bar cross member, holding the intermediate cable.
It fits into a slot in the crossmember, just to the outside of where the front frame rail comes in
The other arrangement uses two very different length rear cables and uses an intermediate cable that runs just down one side and has a housing. That version has both rear cables attached to the intermediate cable on the driver's side rear, with one end of the cable at the front of the car and the other at the rear.
This is what that arrangement looks like on the driver side frame rail at the back, notice the bracket is for both cables (only one is installed here though)
It doesn't matter to the brakes or the rear axle which arrangement is used, it only matters to the car. So, yes, leave the '73 arrangement on the '73, it doesn't matter for the rear axle. You just can't mix and match cables.
reddishdsb
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2006
- Messages
- 244
- Reaction score
- 14
cool thanks for the info and pics!
-
