Evans waterless coolant

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rich006

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Could Evans waterless coolant cause my engine to run consistently too hot? Has anyone gone back from Evans to 50/50 and found lower running temperature?

I rebuilt my slant last year and decided to splurge on this non-water coolant while the water was all out of the block. Ever since then it's been running hotter than before. Pointing an infrared thermometer at the thermostat housing, where it used to read 190 it now reads 210. The radiator reads 200-210 at the top and 160-170 at the bottom. This is at idle after driving. 210 is consistent with what I see on the temp gauge while driving. Before the rebuild the needle would be consistently below the midpoint of the gauge, and now it's consistently near the high end. Once the engine warms up, the needle is quite steady in that spot regardless of driving conditions.

- I tried replacing the thermostat and it didn't make a difference.
- The radiator was overhauled by a good shop while the engine was out, but it is the smaller (non-AC) stock slant radiator.
- The water pump is a stock replacement pump.

Why do I care if it runs hot? 2 reasons:
1) Compression is about 8.9:1 static, 7.7:1 dynamic, and it pings under load even with 93 octane. Retarding timing didn't solve that problem. (I also had ping before rebuilding.)
2) Higher under-hood temperature causes more fuel to boil off after parking.

I am almost ready to dump $200 worth of coolant and go back to 50/50, but I wanted to see if anyone else has a similar experience.
 
You'll get no support from me for Evans coolant. I consider things like that a gimmick to get your money and a crutch for an otherwise poorly set up cooling system. Nothing personal, that's just how I see it. I don't know what to tell you. I've never run anything but straight water or a mix of water and coolant, like I am now.

You may have read I've just recently installed a hot slant 6 in my 64 Valiant. Static compression is 10.1 and dynamic is 7.99. I had a small spark knock issue early on with hard acceleration, but managed to tune it out through several progressive steps. Colder plugs, blocking the heat to the intake manifold, a 160 high flow thermostat, and limiting total timing.

I had it at 15 initial and 30 total and it ran well on 87, but just was not "quite right". So I filled it up with 93, bumped the timing to 20 initial and now it runs very well. I don't have an aftermarket temperature gauge. I have the factory one. Now, even on the hottest days it only gets 1/4 way up after stop and go heat soak. Once out on the road it drops back down to the 1/8 mark.

Reading it with the infra red gun at operating temperature going into the radiator it's 179 degrees and 87 coming out. The radiator is just flat doin it. I have a stock four blade fan, but I'm probably going to swap it out soon for a solid five blade staggered blade fan "just because" I have one.

What radiator do you have? Normally, almost all over heating problems can be traced to a radiator that's just not efficient enough. Here's how efficient mine is. I HAD a high flow 195 thermostat in a while back. This radiator is so danged efficient that the engine never got up to a high enough temperature where the 195 thermostat ever opened. The only circulation it had was the tiny bleed hole in the thermostat and it STILL didn't get over half way on the gauge. I put a 180 in it and it dropped it to just under half. When I put the 160 high flow in it, that was the game changer. It never gets above 1/4 on the gauge and stays on 1/8 except in stop and go in the hottest part of the day and once back on the road cools back off to the 1/4 mark.

My engine has 175 PSI cranking pressure, so it's generating some heat. But with a very efficient cooling system I'm shedding it like nobody's business. You've got "something" not right somewhere. You shouldn't be having to use things like Evans. It's nice stuff, but if you find yourself HAVING to use it to get it to run cool, something's wrong.
 
I tried that stuff in my pro street iscream truck,waste of money.you are better off with a quality antifreeze and a good mixture.it’s worked like that for years.
 
I would start the cheapest way. Go down at least 2 steps colder on your spark plugs. If they don’t foul (probably) won’t, go two more. You have to stop the pinging!
 
I tried that stuff in my pro street iscream truck,waste of money.you are better off with a quality antifreeze and a good mixture.it’s worked like that for years.

Snake oil..... I like the idea of it. But having tried it a few times no difference. But I am sure someone has seen a result worthy of the price tag..... Just not me and sound like there is atleast one other person in the boat with me lol....

JW
 
The Mecca Evans waterless coolant has come in various flavors over the years.
I tried the original system with the drier and no pressure cap. After dumping that $$$ a couple times for various reasons including cost I went to a conventional system.

That said
This is at idle after driving. 210 is consistent with what I see on the temp gauge while driving. Before the rebuild the needle would be consistently below the midpoint of the gauge, and now it's consistently near the high end. Once the engine warms up, the needle is quite steady in that spot regardless of driving conditions.
Your observations are not out of line of what might be expected from the differnence in viscosity and heat transfer characteristics. The fact that the temps hold steady and are well within the accepted range indicates its working fine. 210 F is probably good with the waterless non-pressurized system. Its important that the propylene glycol remains moisture free and having the coolant up to water's boiling point will help insure that, especially since my understanding is they have eliminated the drier.
 
1) Compression is about 8.9:1 static, 7.7:1 dynamic, and it pings under load even with 93 octane. Retarding timing didn't solve that problem. (I also had ping before rebuilding.)
The best I could figure after carefully rereading the Circle Track magazine article and what's now available on the web, the use of the Evans Mecca system to allow higher compression was 'proven' with a reverse flow set up. IIRC they called it the 'level 3' setup.

My suggestion is to plot out the distributor timing. Unless you have an untouched original distributor there's really no way to know what the advance curve looks like.


For example, if we look at the timing spec's for a non-CAP 1967 225 they look like this.
upload_2021-4-30_9-5-8-png.png


Even if you set the initial at the same or close to the same as factory, if the advance has a different shape, you might find timing that measures like shown with the circles.
upload_2021-6-18_10-59-58.png


That could cause ping at full throttle.
 
From the reading I have been doing Evans is basically the same as running streight coolant vs 50/50 mix.

Rather than toss it just add the correct amount of distilled water to make a 50/50 mix.

I'm no chemist but it sure looks like from their own literature that it is basically antifreeze (ethane glycol) which has a boiling point of about 370F on its own.
 
Timing: I have plotted out the timing curve and replaced springs in the distributor to allow more initial advance without increasing total advance.

Plugs: I have already dropped two heat ranges (started with NGK 7 and now at 5).

I called Evans this morning. The guy gave me three options to lower the engine's operating temperature: (1) run without a thermostat, (2) get a bigger radiator and (3) go back to 50/50 coolant. He said if I want to change over, I should drain all the Evans coolant, run a cycle of plain water through the engine, and then add 50/50. I believe the Evans coolant shouldn't be simply diluted with water because it doesn't have the anti-corrosion additives that regular antifreeze has. Those additives aren't needed if there's no water in the system. I believe that's why Evans says the limit is 3% water in their coolant.

I guess the Evans would work fine for me if I had an oversize radiator. But I'd rather change coolant than radiator.
 
I would start the cheapest way. Go down at least 2 steps colder on your spark plugs. If they don’t foul (probably) won’t, go two more. You have to stop the pinging!

I went from RN14 to RN9. I've been just waiting for the plugs to load up but it hasn't happened. It's not going to.
 
Run without a thermostat. That tells me right there that that supposedly "professional" company knows very little about how a cooling system works. ......and I THOUGHT I knew little. I would never in any way recommend running without a thermostat.

Also, if Evans is basically 100% antifreeze, that's some of the problem. 100% antifreeze doesn't have the cooling properties as a mix, or especially 100% water. It's a well known fact straight water is the dead best coolant to run in terms of shedding heat. The antifreeze added to it simply keeps it from boiling off in the summer, since water only has a boiling point of 212, it's certainly possible to boil over with 100% water.

So unless Evans has some "other" qualities added to make it a more efficient cooler than water, that in and of itself might be some of your problem. I'm sure they'd never tell you "THAT" though.
 
The problem with Evans coolant is it’s basically straight antifreeze and it doesn’t have the heat transfer properties of water. There’s a thread from a few years back on here that discussed Evans coolant and yes I switched back to 50/50 due to some of the same issues you were having.
Here’s a write up about it (not saying it’s gospel since it’s written by another company) but I tend to agree.
No-Rosion Products Technical Questions and Answers
 
I had SOME luck with a product called water wetter.

Yup, I've not used it but I've heard good things about it. Still that said, If you find yourself "needing" that, you have an issue "somewhere else" in the cooling system. Water Wetter is different in that it is an additive to add to the coolant mixture. I've heard it makes a difference. But like I said, IMO it's a crutch for some other problem.
 
That fact is that WATER has higher specific heat (1) than any other fluid you might encounter for heat transfer, AND it has the best thermal conductivity of any common liquid
 
I have used Evans in 6 of my 7 vehicles, some for over a decade. I'm too cheap to put it in my 1996 minivan, plus use up the regular coolant in it. I haven't noticed the engines running hotter. I was having an overheating issue in my 1985 M-B 300D which frustrated me for years, trying many things. At one point, I drained the Evans (didn't throw away since $45/gal) and filled w/ pure water, bypassing the heater core since that is the hardest part to rid of water, plus it was summer. No difference. The temp would creep up toward the 120 C red line at very long stoplights, then drop once driving. I finally put in a new radiator (had tried another used one and flushing both) and no more problems (runs 82 C all the time now). I pried the plastic tank off the old radiator and found a thin slime of goldish perhaps metallic "mud" covering many channels. It flaked off easy, so not sure why when I had run a long stainless grill brush along the inside top that hadn't freed it. Perhaps the difference is that the new radiator has an aluminum core and old core was copper.

Anyway, no issues or difference found in using Evans, other than no worries about corrosion or need to ever change it. One son drove my 1984 M-B 300D to LA, crossing the I-5 "Grapevine" on a 110 F afternoon. He said the temperature gage hit 105 C just before the top, which is about what I recall with 50/50 coolant under severe conditions. I understand that many new car cooling designs are verified on that stretch, since climbing 4000 ft at 65 mph in 10 miles on a hot day is challenging for any design. There are many variables in engine cooling. Specific heat of the coolant is only one, and is irrelevant if the bottle-neck is another variable (more commonly the "forced convection" from radiator to air). The "tech guy" at Evans sounds like an idiot for suggesting you remove the T-stat. They used to have smart people there, but maybe were talked into hiring a brother-in-law to answer the phone.

Before fussing with coolants, I suggest a few tests. Document the dash temperature in various conditions, from cool mornings to hot afternoons, even waiting until winter if you can. If the temperature always stays at the same spot, that indicates the T-stat is controlling, so either its "setpoint" is wrong or your dash gage is wrong. Even if working, the temperature will creep up slightly when challenged because more flow is needed on a hot day, which requires the T-stat open more, which only happens at a slightly higher temperature. Google "proportional offset" in "negative feedback control" for the engineering explanation, though it is simple common-sense which escapes most hobbyists. If you see the temperature fluctuate wildly and on the high end, you know the T-stat is "pegged out" i.e. wide-open so it can't control anymore. If you see it get too cool on cold days, the T-stat is stuck open or failed. I had that in my 1996 Voyager, running cold in winter and blocking the radiator w/ cardboard increased the temperature a lot, so pulled the T-stat and found it in pieces (stirrup had popped loose, OEM T-stat).

BTW, I have seen the temp gage indicate abnormally high in my M-B cars, which is due to an air pocket being trapped around the sensor, usually right after refilling coolant, then goes away after freeway driving and adding a little more coolant to sweep out the air. I've never seen that in my Mopar engines or heard of people fuss about trapped air like the Ford guys do, but wouldn't hurt to crack the upper radiator hose until coolant dribbles out, to insure you have no trapped air, preferably with the front on ramps to elevate that location.

Another thought is if you like the idea of Evans, but don't want to pay $45/gal, you might "roll your own". Being cheap I tried that, but don't recommend. I bought pure ethylene glycol (normal green) and propylene glycol (Sierra brand, sold at Ace) and boiled them to drive any water off (most spec up to 5%), to match the Evans MSDS. Not being a total idiot, I did that on an outdoor grill, away from the house. The boiling point is ~350 F. You see a lot of boiling at first just above 220 F (using IR gun), which is likely water. Eventually, you see what is likely glycol vapor. Don't touch it since it will be very hot condensing on your hands. The first time, I thought I saw a barely visible flame above the liquid, stuck a piece of paper in and it instantly ignited (per "Fahrenheit 451" novel?). Figured done driving off any water. I kept a lid half on to keep air away. Last pass I got too aggressive on the grill and lazy. I saw it boil over and ignite violently from inside the house, burning into the rubber propane hoses before I could turn off the valve. Could have been "interesting" if the hoses had melted thru and answering questions from the Fire Dept. Not worth the about 50% savings.
 
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I’m one of the few who won’t use anything else. I like the fact that it doesn’t require a pressure cap. I can take the cap off at maximum operating temperature and it doesn’t explode hot coolant all over you.

It’s also easier on the hoses and clamps without the pressure on it.

If the cooling system can’t keep up I’d fix the system.

BTW, my engine never ran above the thermostat rating, even with Evans coolant in it. At one time I blocked off the bypass and took the thermostat out just to see if I could take out one more restriction. Even on a 95 degree day I couldn’t get the engine temp up to 135 with the car sitting. It would go about 150 or so diving. I need a heater so that wasn’t going to cut it. So I had to hook up the bypass and put the thermostat back in it.
 
The theory was to prevent hot spots in the combustion chamber by eliminating what Evans called nucleate boiling on the back side of the combustion chamber. This is where standard antifreeze and water would separate from the backside of the chamber on a thin layer of steam. Years ago I had cut apart a slant six head to see where to drill holes and tap threads for 3/8" pipe at the correct angle to target an area between the spark plug and exhaust valve seat to reverse flow the coolant. Never did that unfortunately as I installed a draw through turbo instead..
 
Could Evans waterless coolant cause my engine to run consistently too hot?

No, but it can cause your temp gauge to read higher. The stuff works. Read here (written by me, not some shill).

Pointing an infrared thermometer at the thermostat housing, where it used to read 190 it now reads 210.

That doesn't mean the engine's hotter—not the relevant parts of it, anyway—it means the coolant's hotter. The coolant's hotter because it has pulled more heat off the relevant parts of the engine. The job of coolant is to transport heat away from the cylinders and combustion chambers.

Compression is about 8.9:1 static, 7.7:1 dynamic, and it pings under load even with 93 octane. Retarding timing didn't solve that problem. (I also had ping before rebuilding.)

You need to be thinking in terms of recurving, not retarding. Also pay attention to your spark plug selection; they need to be appropriately matched to your build. If you're running a '63-'74 head, make sure to remove the ring washers ("gaskets") from the spark plugs before installing them, or they'll run too hot and contribute to ping. Of course, your carburetor needs to be jetted correctly as well, and you need to make sure there's no undue exhaust restriction; if you're running lean or there's a collapsed baffle in the muffler or something, it'll want to ping.

Higher under-hood temperature causes more fuel to boil off after parking.

Do the fuel line mod and add heat shielding under the carburetor. If you're running a stock exhaust manifold, make sure the heat control valve works correctly. If you're running headers, wrap them with this.
 
We ran Water Wetter in the stock eliminator Dakota just for it's water pump lubricating properties. We saw no increase or decrease in the temperature reading in our gauges.
 
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