Exploding Torqueflites

-

Duster346

Chris Andrews
Joined
Nov 13, 2004
Messages
550
Reaction score
331
Location
Castle Rock, CO
Why it happens, and how to prevent it from happening to YOU!
exploded001.jpg


A few years back at a local dragstrip, I happened to be standing by the starting line when a racer in a 66 Dodge had his 727 explode right off of the starting line.

I went to his pit area to examine the carnage, there was a massive crater in the floorboard/transmission tunnel area. Luckily the racer only suffered from a sore ankle. We were discussing the possible causes, when he told me he broke the ring gear in the differential the week before. He mentioned that his "transmission guy" checked out the transmission afterwards and gave him the OK to put the car back together. To my surprise the "transmission guy" was standing in the racer's pit area. I told him that these transmissions are not supposed to explode if they are built with quality components and the correct techniques. He didn't take kindly to me offering up my opinion at the time, and he simply replied "If you race enough it will happen". That statement is flat-out WRONG.

Why it happens:

It all starts when the over-running clutch (aka the sprag) in the rear of the transmission case is damaged. The roller bearings will commonly "roll-over" the posts or fingers on the spring retainer. This action will cause the transmission's geartrain to over-rev the engine rpm multiplied by the first gear ratio, commonly 12,000 rpm or more. The stock OEM powered forged high gear/front clutch drum retainer will explode at approximately 9,000 rpm. The sprag can be damaged by one or more of the following:

1) Driveline failure such as:
-Broken ring and pinion
-Broken u-joint or u-joint straps
-Broken driveshaft
-Broken axle shaft
-If you have a driveline failure, remove the transmission and carefully inspect the case and tail shaft area for cracks. Disasemble the transmission and check the sprag in the back of the transmission case. If it is not damaged, it is recommended to replace the springs and rollers to be on the safe side.

2) Using a reverse manual or trans brake valve-body that does not apply the low/reverse band in first gear.
-Ask the manufacturer of your valve body if it has the low bandy apply feature. This is very important, and I blame the majority of transmission explosions on valve bodies that are not applying the low/reverse band in first. If your car "free wheels" in first (early turbo action valve bodies), it is not applying the low/reverse band.

3) Misuse/abuse on the street or strip in first gear.
-Remember you can only damage the sprag in 1st gear. Start your burnout in 2nd, and shift to 3rd. When on the street, repetitively getting in and out of the throttle while in 1st gear can damage the sprag.
bent_fingers.jpg

In the photo above notice the two bent fingers on the spring retainer.
willie_b.jpg

Photo courtesy of www.kbpi.com
willie_b_003.jpg

Photo courtesy of www.kbpi.com

How to prevent this:

You can virtually eliminate the chances of having an explosion by using a valve-body that applies the low/reverse band in first gear. By having the low/reverse band applied in first, the band helps to "cushion" and protect the delicate sprag. Remember with low band apply, the engine will compression brake when the selector is moved from 2nd to 1st, so make sure your speed is substantially lower prior to shifting down to first.

It is also a good idea to replace the OEM powder forged high gear/front clutch retainer drum with a billet steel drum for the street, or a billet aluminum drum for "race only" vehicles. Although the aluminum drum is made from strong 7075 material it is not recommend for street use as it will wear quicker.

A bolt in sprag is a common upgrade for the racer's peace of mind. It will not, however prevent a transmission explosion. I would recommend the "Ultimate" sprag as an upgrade from the previous 4 bolt, 12 roller design. The "Ultimate" sprag is a 6 bolt, 16 roller design, with 4 extra springs and rollers to provide that much more sprag protection.
ultimat_6.jpg

6 bolt, 16 roller design "Ultimate" sprag

Finally, all race cars should use a SFI approved transmission scatter shield to prevent debris from entering the vehicle should you have an explosion.

If you have any questions regarding this very important topic, please by all means feel free to reply here, PM me on the board, send me an e-mail or call me at 720-939-4896.

Thanks for reading,

Chris Andrews

exploded001.jpg


bent_fingers.jpg


willie_b.jpg


willie_b_003.jpg


ultimat_6.jpg
 
Great thread. I'm gonna more this to the Tech Archive (in a week or 2)after everyone has a chance to read it. :thumrigh:
 
Chris I see A&A offer 2 differant reverse patern valve bodies 1 race and 1 street whats the differance ?
 
WOW that looks just like the trans. when i blew it up in a 67 Coronet i had about 10 years ago.
Never figured why it exploded,so i just threw it on the scrap pile.
 
AdamR said:
Chris I see A&A offer 2 differant reverse patern valve bodies 1 race and 1 street whats the differance ?

Hi Adam,

They are basically the same as far as pressures and shift firmness on the upshifts. But the Street version has a softer 2-1 downshift, while the Race version does not.

Both valve bodies require a billet Low/Reverse piston kit as well. The stock pistons can crack with the increased line pressures.

Chris
 
That's what took off part of Big Daddy's foot too, right? Or was that a motor explosion?

I saw one of those blow up first hand, once. That's why I've got a big ol' blanket on my tranny.

And yeah, I know, I've got the wrong valve body. But I'm sticking with it for now.
 
sooooo....
i have a 400 with a .509 cam, edelbrock torker intake, will have 3.91s and a 3000-ish stall converter soon.....i don't know what EXACTLY the tranny is...whether old stocker, rebuilt, or what.....

guess that's bad?????

also, how good are the TCI or Mancini trannies???

i was kinda looking at the tci competition ($850) and puting a manual/auto valve body in it....
 
green67cuda said:
sooooo....
i have a 400 with a .509 cam, edelbrock torker intake, will have 3.91s and a 3000-ish stall converter soon.....i don't know what EXACTLY the tranny is...whether old stocker, rebuilt, or what.....

guess that's bad?????

also, how good are the TCI or Mancini trannies???

i was kinda looking at the tci competition ($850) and puting a manual/auto valve body in it....

Well, I don't know if it is bad, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to crack it open and see what's inside. :mrgreen:

I really couldn't comment on the quality of a TCI or Mancini transmission, as I have never used either of them. I am pretty sure that Mancini sells a lot of turbo action stuff, which could mean they are still selling reverse manual valve-bodies that are NOT applying the low/reverse band in 1st. I did hear that Ron Mancini started his "own line" of transmissions.

Are you looking to maintain the forward pattern valve body, or are you looking to use a reverse pattern?

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Chris
 
i already have a TCI forward pattern shifter....that would be one more thing to change out if i wentto a reverse pattern....also, i think a reverse pattern would be more suited to a strip car, and mine is more of a street car that will hopefully be in the low 11s someday.......
 
Very good article, Chris. I have a Cheetah manual valve body in my 727. Don't know if it has the low band apply or not. I read somewhere that it alot safer to start your burnout in 2nd gear and then throw 3rd, and that's what I've always done. Does this alleviate the potential for disaster? Thanks.
 
sickt7cuda said:
Very good article, Chris. I have a Cheetah manual valve body in my 727. Don't know if it has the low band apply or not. I read somewhere that it alot safer to start your burnout in 2nd gear and then throw 3rd, and that's what I've always done. Does this alleviate the potential for disaster? Thanks.

Hi Dan,

I am positive that your turbo action reverse manual valve body is not applying the L/R band in 1st. However, you're doing everything right as far as your burnout goes; start in 2nd and shift to 3rd.

You would still practice the same burn out technique with a valve body that is applying the L/R band in 1st. The low band apply valve body will decrease your chance of having a sprag failure and possible transmission explosion.

With the valve bodies that aren't applying the L/R band in 1st, the sprag is very venerable, presenting a greater chance of damaging the sprag because the low/reverse band and drum are not "cushioning" the sprag.

"We must protect our delicate sprag" :salut:
 
I had a fErd a couple years ago, that was all Mopar running gear, including the front suspension (a '56 HT). The BB 383, had a 727 Auto, with "B&M" components, I was told.

The reverse valve body worked well. If I kept the trans. in 1st gear, accelerated a little, the trans. would "glide" when I took my foot off the accelerator (the only way I can describe it) as if I'd put the transmission in neutral, but, if I used the throttle a little, to bring it up to speed (what would be the equivalent to the road speed) the trans would engage normally. Was this the reverse valve body, or something else in the transmission.

The reason I'm asking, I'm building a 392 Hemi Dart, and have several options for transmissions. I really liked the feature in that combination described above, and if I could duplicate it with this car, I think the small block 727 would be my choice. I'm not a transmission guy at all, never had an automatic apart, but I guess there's a first time for everything.

Please enlighten me..! :argue:
Bob
 
Thats the lack of low band apply. Its like the tranny is in nuetral when you let off of the gas in 1st gear. A valve body that applies the band in low will decelerate when letting off of the gas and is much safer.

A reverse manual valve body will have the shift patern reversed. Instead of PRN321 it will be PRN123. This will keep you from hitting Par reverse or Nuetral while shifting threw the gears.
 
Chris:
I have a slightly heated up 360, probably 360 HP, in a 66 Dart, 3:23 gears, and for the past 15 years I've run a 727 in it. Prior to that I ran a 904, and this time I think I want to go back to the 904 again. This is a 99% street driven car, with maybe 1 or 2 trips per year to the strip. Is there any advantage in going to a manual or reverse manual valve body for this application, and if so, which one? Also, does the manual valve body negate the need for the kickdown linkage, which is always a PITA on these small A Bodies. If I understand correctly, some still need the linkage and some don't.
Thanks.

Sid
 
Low reverse band apply is nice. I have been running TA valve bodies since the 70's without the low reverse band apply and have always been careful enough to never have a problem. I also taught my son how to drive his street car with one on the street as I have driven a street car without the L/R band apply on the street since 1997. I build my own transmissions and have always been careful. And I like the quality of Turbo Action parts but I too will be getting a L/R apply next time I have to buy a valve body. Ron
 
I agree with ron. I also run a T/A valve body but would like to swwitch to a low band apply unit. Chris likes the A@A valve body best. I hear thw griners are also good but I think the line pressure is very high on them. You wont need the kick down linkage with a manual valve body. I think the old B@M kit says you can use it to soften the shifts though.
 
I dont think there is any bennefits of not applying the band. I think it was done to make shifts faster origanally
 
It's a matter of shift timing. Without the L/R band apply the only thing needed to shift to second gear is to apply the front band. If you have the L/R band applied then you have to release that band and apply the front band to achieve the 1-2 shift.

This is why the T/Flites never shifted 2-3 very well because they have to release the front band and apply the front clutch to effect the shift.

Timing two events to happen at the same time is much harder than just making one event happen.
 
I saw a SS/BA Hemi Belvedere gernade a trans. at the Cajan Nationals back in 76. One big fire ball in the burnout box. Wow, that was not pretty. The driver got 3rd degree burns on his legs. If you ever see it happen you will never forget it.
 
Great info guys, I am staring to rebuild a 73 727 and am wondering if all stock valve bodies had l/r apply. If not is there any way to tell with the trans out? Also if it does have l/r apply, will installing a shift kit affect it? Thanks for any help...
 
mda440 said:
Great info guys, I am staring to rebuild a 73 727 and am wondering if all stock valve bodies had l/r apply. If not is there any way to tell with the trans out? Also if it does have l/r apply, will installing a shift kit affect it? Thanks for any help...

Sorry for the delayed response, I just noticed these newer posts.

Your stock valve body applies the L/R band in Manual Low. It does not apply the low/reverse band in Drive Low. Meaning, if you're in Drive, and the transmission is shifting by itself, when you accelerate from a standing stop with the shifter in the D posistion, the L/R is not applied allowing the possibilty of a sprag failure. When you are in manual low, with the shifter in the 1 posistion, the L/R band IS applied.

Installing a shift kit will not affect this...

HTH's....
 
-
Back
Top