Frame Connectors - install question

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moparmat2000 said:
Jacked up with front jack stands on the framerails between the K frame and rad support, and rear stands on the framerails by the rear shackles or slightly forward on a hardtop, and leveled out. Doors open and close just fine. I mean this is also providing you dont have soft and crunchy framerails and **** like that.
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Every single one will open and close the doors differently being the suspension loaded VS not. You CAN tell a difference.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Heres what I started with. A ******* mess. Also had to fab my own framerail caps to replace the spring relocators. Started all the major structural demolition and repair this january.

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Nice work! It this where you are currently with the car?
 
moparmat2000 said:
Easy money. I will go with $40 worth of rectangular tubing, a chop saw, and a welder. I love making my own parts.
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And the thing about these cars is, since none are exactly the same, you'll have a better fitting product when done.
 
Not trying to argue with you so I am not, however do they really assemble these things with the suspension under em first before they weld em together? This has me stumped. I am pretty sure these things were jigged together and spot welded up to various degrees of expertness by hourly workers before being kicked out the door to the submerge tanks then the paint shop.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Not trying to argue with you so I am not, however do they really assemble these things with the suspension under em first before they weld em together? This has me stumped. I am pretty sure these things were jigged together and spot welded up to various degrees of expertness by hourly workers before being kicked out the door to the submerge tanks then the paint shop.
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No, but I am merely speaking from what's worked for ME best. Opinions vary and that's fine.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Nice work! It this where you are currently with the car?
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Thank you
Yes, the first pix with the transition pan in off white primer. Today i ground a few welds I had issue with, then primered the transition pan in off white epoxy primer today in 105° heat. Wheel houses are welded and have been fitted. Outers are AMD, are too long in the back. I will weld them in next. When I get to trunk drops after the new trunk pan goes in, I will cut the outer wheel houses back to fit.
 
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AMD is nice but not perfect stuff. I am betting OEM NOS fits much better. I will take what I can get. I will say this, the AMD wheel houses are a lot thicker steel than stock. I stitched OEM inners and AMD outers together. If this makes sense, you can just about feel the thickness difference
 
moparmat2000 said:
Sorry if I offended in any way rusty. It was my probably poor attempt at satire.
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No not offended in the least. But see......if I took one down as far as you, I might do it differently.
 
moparmat2000 said:
AMD is nice but not perfect stuff. I am betting OEM NOS fits much better. I will take what I can get. I will say this, the AMD wheel houses are a lot thicker steel than stock. I stitched OEM inners and AMD outers together. If this makes sense, you can just about feel the thickness difference
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Good USED fits better than AMD I bet.
 
AMD Its waaay better than nothing. I am happy it's out there. I do aviation sheetmetal repair for a living. Doing that tedious **** daily, actually makes this automotive sheetmetal stuff fun for me. I mean other than certain stuff needing to be a certain way so doors close correctly chassis stays square etc most of it is pretty crude yet oddly satisfying lol. I mean clamp, bzzzzt, grind flat, primer. If it dont fit tap that **** into place with a hammer and dolly clamp the **** out of it and weld it.
 
Dang, when I did the connectors on my 72 dart about 10 years ago, I put Jack stands under the frame and welded in the connectors because I didn't know you are supposed to load the suspension. (Pre- fabo days)

I must have got lucky because the doors operated fine then and they do now too.

The car had really bad body roll in parking lots, felt like a small boat on the water. It still feels tight and solid 10 years later.
 
Princess Valiant said:
Dang, when I did the connectors on my 72 dart about 10 years ago, I put Jack stands under the frame and welded in the connectors because I didn't know you are supposed to load the suspension. (Pre- fabo days)

I must have got lucky because the doors operated fine then and they do now too.

The car had really bad body roll in parking lots, felt like a small boat on the water. It still feels tight and solid 10 years later.
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As Matt's pointing out, it may not be that critical. That's how I've always done it though.
 
Ranigirl, under the frame was just fine. I think that whole suspension under load thing is like an old wives tale. People weld them things in all the time with a bare body shell on a rotisserie. I have not heard anybody complain after that their doors wont line up.
 
Yea, now you guys got me thinking and I'm prolly going to lose sleep because I'm Arguing with myself how I'm going to do the next car.

This thread is very timely, because I'm about to do connectors on my valiant wagon.
 
RustyRatRod said:
As Matt's pointing out, it may not be that critical. That's how I've always done it though.
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The big thing is that the frame is kept square at 4 axis. A loaded suspension will approximate this which may be why people say to do it that way to an assembled car.

However setting the jack stands in the 4 spots I mentioned along with 4 bubble levels and shimming the frame level along those 4 axis makes real sure that frame is square. A vert you would want to add removable bracing near the door tops to hold that front to rear door gap when sub framing it.
 
Princess Valiant said:
Yea, now you guys got me thinking and I'm prolly going to lose sleep because I'm Arguing with myself how I'm going to do the next car.

This thread is very timely, because I'm about to do connectors on my valiant wagon.
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I am sure either way is fine. That wagon has shorter doors and a lot more bracing because of the door jambs etc. Pretty stiff structure.
 
I think a wagon body by nature is more rigid than a 2 door hardtop. When you consider where the seat is mounted there is no frame section under it, so a driver's fat *** bouncing down the road is putting all the weight on the floor pan to be transferred to the rockers. There is no support from the B pillar which is probably why they all crack and break the Stricker pins.

A wagon or even a 4 door sedan has the b pillar really holding some weight and supporting under the point where the front seat mounts.

I really don't think my car needs them, especially being kept a slant six car. But I'm going to install connectors anyway because I'd rather have them and not need them, than be regretting I didn't do it now that i have the car apart and there is no new paint yet.
 
Not sure if yours has that tiny ledge on the upper rad support facing the radiator like a 67 up does so you can tape a level across. Put the stands as far forward on the rails (I put em between the lower rad support, and the K frame) and as far back on the rear rails (i put em just forward of the shackles) as you can so the car doesnt try to droop on the ends. Check your door gaps and make sure the doors open and close well. As long as its level, the gaps are good and they open and close well, then crawl under it and weld em in. Nothing will change from that point on. If it was goodly before, it will be goodly after
 
I would think IF the factory would have put connectors, they wouldn't have done it on assembled cars, but rather when the floor sections were being welded together in the very beginning.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Not sure if yours has that tiny ledge on the upper rad support facing the radiator like a 67 up does so you can tape a level across. Put the stands as far forward on the rails (I put em between the lower rad support, and the K frame) and as far back on the rear rails (i put em just forward of the shackles) as you can so the car doesnt try to droop on the ends. Check your door gaps and make sure the doors open and close well. As long as its level, the gaps are good and they open and close well, then crawl under it and weld em in. Nothing will change from that point on. If it was goodly before, it will be goodly after
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Oogly doogly diddly
 
Princess Valiant said:
I would think IF the factory would have put connectors, they wouldn't have done it on assembled cars, but rather when the floor sections were being welded together in the very beginning.
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Bingo. If you lived closer to me I'd buy ya lunch for that answer. Yes you are correct Ranigirl. While the major pieces are clamped in an assembly line jig and some hourly wage worker is pinching em together with a spot welder
 
Princess Valiant said:
I would think IF the factory would have put connectors, they wouldn't have done it on assembled cars, but rather when the floor sections were being welded together in the very beginning.
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Absolutely......BUT they also had blueprints with measurements of where everything was SUPPOSED to be.......and I think those "now" would be difficult to find.
 
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