Frickin' timing chain

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mopar_nocar

mopar_nocar

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Just stabbed a distributor and remounted a carb on a little 318 in my Dart. Started right up, but runs like caca. So, vacuum gauge shows low and slightly erratic needle at about 11-13 in Hg.

Pull the distributor cap. I can turn the crank more than 20* before the distributor rotor even budges! How much is just a guess since I am using the stock timing marks on the cover to see and it is WELL beyond that before it moves.

So, aside from bitching, anyone else thing a timing set might be in order?

sb
 
Sounds like it's time. No pun intended.
 
Yeah. This is just a "be able to move under your own power" deal right now. It will not. I don't want to spend a lot of coin on the engine/transmission, because I am saving dough for a 360 build...might even start a thread about what to build. (That will be a original.)

So, I ordered cheapy stuff from Rock Auto to get it running enough to move. Not one FLAPS in 3 surrounding towns had the timing set in stock....go figure.

sb
 
I got a double roller at local advance auto parts for a 360 recently. Surprisingly they had one in stock in a car quest box. Nothing special but only cost about $30 and it got the car on road again
 
I can think of several parts in the stack up from crank to distributor rotor that could go bad: distributor shaft parts, intermediate shaft and gear, keys, etc. Pull the distributor and shaft and then head under the timing cover. Considering how these chains wear, you may well be spot on.
 
Dartish said:
I got a double roller at local advance auto parts for a 360 recently. Surprisingly they had one in stock in a car quest box. Nothing special but only cost about $30 and it got the car on road again
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You need to be really careful with those cheap auto store ones. That was probably a split roller chain, instead of a solid roller. The split roller chains can and do wear out quickly and fail. Here, you can see the difference. You can clearly see the split rollers on the cheaper, inferior chain. They are prone to crushing and even coming apart. Timing chain sets are one area where you do not need to cut corners.
SPLIT ROLLER CHAIN.jpg
 
RustyRatRod said:
You need to be really careful with those cheap auto store ones. That was probably a split roller chain, instead of a solid roller. The split roller chains can and do wear out quickly and fail. Here, you can see the difference. You can clearly see the split rollers on the cheaper, inferior chain. They are prone to crushing and even coming apart. Timing chain sets are one area where you do not need to cut corners. View attachment 1715003277
Click to expand...
Good picture!
 
AJ/FormS said:
I think you spelt caca wrong.......Hope you have compression left after the cam-timing is back...
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caca.jpg

Me, too! Had 118 psi cold on all cylinders when I bought it. If it runs right after the TC, I might check it again...maybe.


nm9stheham said:
I can think of several parts in the stack up from crank to distributor rotor that could go bad: distributor shaft parts, intermediate shaft and gear, keys, etc. Pull the distributor and shaft and then head under the timing cover. Considering how these chains wear, you may well be spot on.
Click to expand...

I am with you, the distributor is a "new" one I had on the shelf, new cap and rotor. Thought I was chasing an ignition problem. I wish.
 
mopar_nocar said:
For future reference and posterity, who makes a good timing chain set any more?

sb
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Summit sells many brands that will fit the bill as quality chains. Cloyes, Comp, or just about any chain that sells around 60 and up. Although (crossing my fingers), the Summit brand double roller "true roller" chain is only 35.99, but you would have to call the tech to see if it's a solid roller.
Remember, the chain is turning more than just the cam. It's turning the oil pump, and the dizzy. Also, stiffer valve springs work it harder. A real good single roller chain is sufficient in a mild engine, provided it is a quality chain.
 
RustyRatRod said:
You need to be really careful with those cheap auto store ones. That was probably a split roller chain, instead of a solid roller. The split roller chains can and do wear out quickly and fail. Here, you can see the difference. You can clearly see the split rollers on the cheaper, inferior chain. They are prone to crushing and even coming apart. Timing chain sets are one area where you do not need to cut corners. View attachment 1715003277
Click to expand...
Damn Rusty, I hope you're not on a "Wanted List". We can read those fingerprints!
 
i used a Melling chain. seemed to be of good quality. Used it on the 'teener. Think I paid around 38 bucks. [from the machine shop].
 
That one from Oz --Rollmaster--is supposed to be very good. lots of hype on cog material, as it wears just like a chain. Stretch they do but if the cogs wear imagine what the chain will run like> It uses a German chain and hardened cogs. BUT The MP tensioner will make even a sloppy chain steady, and it keeps it taught.
 
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For the novice... Pre lube any new chain. Just like bearings, we cant expect flowing oil to get there early and prevent initial wear. I sink and soak and work a timing chain in 90w gear oil. It's a slow drip, somewhat messy assembly.
 
Keep in mind that any tensioner will reduce timing variations, but it won't remove and retarding of the cam timing due to a stretched or worn chain. The tensioner will just make the cam timing steadily retarded.

If getting the car to move under it's own power is the sole goal, then any chain will work. The OP can decide if that is all he wants, or if he wants a better chain for long term use in the 318.

IMHO, it would still be a good idea to pull the distributor, prop a mirror and light up to view the top of the intermediate shaft while standing at the front of the car, and turn the crank and look for the same looseness, crank to shaft gear.
 
The one I got fromAdvance Auto WAS a split roller type. It went in an old Barracuda 318 with 140k miles on it and it was only a few bucks more then the silent type and it's only gotta last til the 340s done in another month or so. If I remember right, they did have a solid one with bigger rollers in stock to. Think it was closer to $60. Last split roller I ran was a $20 cloyes in a svc. After 5kmiles I bought a new cam and Pete Jackson gear drive on the cheap. That chain was stretched so much it looked like it had 200k miles on it
 
yes, thats the tensioner. Itll work wonders on a wandering timing mark. worrying about retarded cam timing on a "just get it moving" job is a waste of gray hairs...plus itll work on your new chain too.
 
The comment on retarded was just so no one thinks it does otherwise on a stretched chain; it does not fix that part. Putting a tensioner in something just to get it moving is a bigger waste than a cheap timing chain, IMHO.
 
mopar_nocar said:
For future reference and posterity, who makes a good timing chain set any more?

sb
Click to expand...
I just went to the factory and picked up two Avon Progear chains for my boat motors. The gears are made in house in LaGrange IL. They use the Rolon / Renold Gold chain.
I noticed while I was there that they make the timing sets for Edelbrock and Manley as well. Useless trivia fact: Avon / Pro Gear is directly across the street from Billet Specialties.
 
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