front drums w/o hubs?

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kittypancake

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I was looking at replacement front drums and the descriptions often read "drum only - no hub"...Uhm, I kinda always thought the front drum/hub was a single unit. So I guess I need to know how to take the hub uota the drum. Any help?:-k
 
mopar drum & hub are treated as assembly when turning drums the wheels studs are swedged to the drum to keep it tight-- an old time shop can remove this-- do not know if the chain stores have any idea.
do not beat the studs -- to remove the drum from the hub -- you'll ruin parts.
Lawrence
 
kittypancake said:
I was looking at replacement front drums and the descriptions often read "drum only - no hub"...Uhm, I kinda always thought the front drum/hub was a single unit. So I guess I need to know how to take the hub uota the drum. Any help?:-k
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1st. Remove the drum hub assemblies off the car and lay them down with the studs sticking up
2nd. Soak the mating surfaces including the studs holes with PB Blaster or similar and let them soak.
3rd. Take a good 2x4, place it over the hub end and hit it with a big hammer. If it doesn't come loose the first time soak it some more and repeat the 2x4 and hammer process.

I had one one time that wouldn't come off until I applied heat on it.
 
Oklacarcollecto said:
1st. Remove the drum hub assemblies off the car and lay them down with the studs sticking up
2nd. Soak the mating surfaces including the studs holes with PB Blaster or similar and let them soak
3rd. Take a good 2x4, place it over the hub end and hit it with a hammer. If it doesn't come loose the first time soak it some more and repeat the 2x4 and hammer process.
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Okla, the studs are swedged to the hub. No amount of hammering will release them without destroying something.

kittypc, A machine shop is the best choice to change over the new drums for you IMO.
 
6pk2goDemon said:
Okla, the studs are swedged to the hub. No amount of hammering will release them without destroying something.

kittypc, A machine shop is the best choice to change over the new drums for you IMO.
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He is not trying to remove the studs. My 1968 Barracuda and my 1969 Dart were both taken off the way I said. The studs stayed in the hub. Maybe my new drums had large enough holes to go over the mushroomed studs.

Now when I had some studs that had been broke off I never got one out. I bought another hub off a member here and used it. My drum slipped rig over his studded hub. The member I got it from is from Califorina (Kilgroy I think) and has a late model blue Dodge pick up as his avatar. There was a picture of the hub in this posts.

I guess I didn't do it right but I did it and didn't damage anything. I wasn't about to give up my lefty studs that couldn't be replaced.
 
I completely understand what the OP is trying to do LOL.

I don't recommend using a hammer to remove the drums. There is always a chance of damaging the hubs that way. When separating the hub/drum assembly on this style, the old wheel studs are usually replaced anyways. I suppose he could cut/grind the "swage" off of each stud, but it's a PITA to do.

Very few people have the equipment needed to re-swedge them together again.
 
I have heard of people drilling the backside of the stud out and then knocking the stud out through the front. It seems easier than cutting out swedging. The last non swedged front drum I changed out. I set it down with the studs facing up, put 6 inches of 2x4 against the wheel bearing cap flange and smacked it with the sledge.
 
Time for an update and some feedback.

Went to have my drums turned and was informed that in order to do so, the hubs have to be separated from the drums. So, I went home and did a little reading (here mostly) and attempted to proceed using some FABO guidance.

Fail.

Here's what's right: The studs are securely fastened or 'swedged' to the hub, not the drum. Nevertheless, the hub and the studs are likely to be rusted hard to the drum but that can be overcome.

The technique of slamming the hub with a sledge hammer through a 2x4 only produced a dished drum in my case, no offense. Here is what I recommend:

Start with penetrating oil. You will need to apply it to the studs and around the perimeter of the hub flange. Then go find something else to do the rest of the day. Perform the remaining steps tomorrow.

Now get a punch and a hammer. Center the punch on the end of a stud and tap several times. Work your way around each stud. Eventually, they will loosen their bond with the holes in the drum. The sound of the strike will change to something duller when the bond breaks.

Once you're comfortable that all 5 studs are loose, you may proceed with the mallet and 2x4 against the top of the hub. The proper technique is more taps, not harder ones. This, too, will eventually break free and the whole hub assembly, studs included, should drop out of the drum.

Using the punch keeps you from damaging the threads. The 2x4 is to keep you from damaging the top of the hub.

Now, to go order a new drum :(
 
Teeth & Tires said:
Time for an update and some feedback.

Went to have my drums turned and was informed that in order to do so, the hubs have to be separated from the drums.
Click to expand...

Too bad you didn't ask here first. That statement is utter bullshit. "In a previous life" I've turned thousands of drums and rotors

In fact such machines as Ammco (I have one) have interchangeable arbors in order to accomodate the smaller splined hubs on small front wheel drives, and the older Jeep/ IHC/ VW/ Mopar etc tapered axle hubs.

I have NEVER had to remove a hub from a disc or rotor to turn one.

This is one of the small tapered arbors as mentioned above

$T2eC16d,!w0E9szN,F+2BR7qPgf34!~~60_35.JPG


But for just about everything with conventional front wheel hubs such as you are dealing with all the way up to big heavy over the road trucks, there is a HUGE array of what are called "centering cones" which are used as need be

$T2eC16dHJGoFFvNw2n%28,BR7nokKFU!~~60_35.JPG


The smaller cones are used when turning drums/ rotors with hubs, or without hubs, you add a spring and end bells

mddAJoZrOuO3OHDkeTRmmdw.jpg


Whoever told you that has no idea what they are doing, or they don't have the correct accessories for their machine

Here in fact is a rotor with hub chucked up in a machine

FRA-5532_WKG.jpg
 
I think there was some smoke over the issue about needing to pull the hubs off: Of my two drums, one hub was securely mated to the drum and the other was clearly in two parts so I left the store thinking that separating the other drum/hub would have been easy enough. And - the guy at the shop may have been wrong or it may have been that HE was unable to turn them with the hubs attached. It does seem logical that a properly equipped shop would be able to do drums without removing the hubs.

Let's just not lose sight of the actual POINT to my post which was merely to offer a better procedure for separating them if you want to for whatever reason.
 
Teeth & Tires said:
Here's what's right: The studs are securely fastened or 'swedged' to the hub, not the drum. :(
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The wheel studs are "pressed" into the hub. After the drum is installed on the hub, the studs are "swedged" to secure the drum tight to the hub.

Turning the drums is best accomplished with the hubs attached as a 1 piece assembly. They can however, be separated and left as "free floating" assemblies and turned by themselves.
 
Seems like a maintenance nightmare to swedge the studs to the drums considering I've never seen new drums with hubs. Why did they make such a dumb setup? My drums have never been fused to my hubs and the setup works just fine.
 
Teeth & Tires said:
I think there was some smoke over the issue about needing to pull the hubs off: ..........................................
Let's just not lose sight of the actual POINT to my post which was merely to offer a better procedure for separating them if you want to for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

There is no smoke over the issue, the fact is that drums should NEVER need to be separated in order to turn them, and I never have done so. In fact it is more accurate to turn them as a hub / drum assembly because that's how they go down the road.

Your method of separation is not very good if you expect to save the drum. Swedging "varies." You might very well get one or two drums separated the way you describe, and the next two.........you might end up with a mess.

The studs ARE swedged into the drums, and the only reliable way of separating them is to cut, grind, otherwise remove the swedge.

There is absolutely no reason to do so unless you are replacing the drums, and in that case, you may not care.........about the condition of the drums
 
Wow! I didn't know some of you were not that mechanically inclined.

We do them all the time and cannot afford to pay for drums or hubs.

Here is the proper way.
Each stud must be removed one at a time with a press.. a hammer can be use but then you throw the studs away. Use a short piece of pipe longer then the depth of the drum. The pipe should just fit over the head of the stud. hold the drum in position so that the head of one stud is inside the pipe. If you are saving the stud press them out one at a time with a press into the pipe. If not hammer them out one at a time and throw them away. You will be switching the pipe to each stud you are removing.

If you are reusing the studs the swedged protrusions must be removed from the studs. We use a lathe it looks professional for the customer. You can carefully grind them off. They must be cleaned up to reuse them or the drum will not seat properly.

When you are done the drum will be able to be removed the same as the rears.

. If you are replacing one or two studs only the drum cannot be cut ever again with the hub attached. The only time a drum should be cut with the hub attached is if all the original swedged studs are in place. They hold the drum seated evenly. Take one out and you destroy the perpendicular seating of the drum .

Once the drum is completely removed the way I described it remains true and will be held in the seated position with the wheel. If you destort the drum by beating the hub out the drum. It is then junk and the studs have to be removed anyway to clean the swedged portion as stated. so the new drum will seat properly

If you ever have to replace one stud because it is broke all must be removed , cleaned and reinstalled. That is if you ever plan on cutting that drum. So before ever cutting a front drum always make sure all the studs are swedged. If not the drum has to come off the hub to cut it..

I hope this helps some of you in the future. In this repair wood should be left for Carpentry work.

Oh yeah in all my many years I never had to use a penetrating oil to remove the studs. Only a slight film of oil to install them. If you do you need a bigger hammer or a better press
 
Don' know whut ta tell ya. I usually respect what you have to say but in this case I do have to question

I've seen hubs that were CRACKED from removing studs

I've seen hubs / studs that had to be tacked in to keep them from turning because they were driven out and evidently enlarged the holes so the splines would not catch

"Back in" the days when part of my job was drums and rotors, there's been days when about all I did was turn rotors and drums, hour after hour. This was long before many shops in our small town had their own lathes, and long before the new influx of cheap Chineseo replacements.
 
Removing swedged drums is very simple. I learned this trick from an old timer years ago and it works great. Since all new drums are slip fit drums, the need to reswedge them is not necessary.

All you need is a good quality 5/8" metal cutting hole saw. Center punch the end of the stud dead center. Take the hole saw and with the bit inserted just barely enough to contact the center punch hole, slide the hole saw against the swedged part of the lug nut and cut the swedged portion of the lugnuts off. I always go all the way through the drum and gently scrub the hub with the hole saw to assure you get all of the swedged material off. Once you do that, the drum will fall off. Since the drum centers on the hub center, there's no need to resewedge it. Just do any necessary brake work and slip the new drum on. Done deal. You can also replace lug nuts after cutting the swedged area off. Once the swedged area is removed, then you can simply drive the studs out without damaging anything and the holes in the hub will be fine. I have tried other methods, but the hole saw works every single time.
 
I am sure there are many methods that work the same as mine. But you never should hit the hub out of the drum. I never had the hole enlarged where the stud was loose when re installed. Maybe I've been lucky, but all I have done were not swedged the full diameter.

I like the hole saw/cutter method it is a good idea. I never had a hole saw with the small enough of an inside diameter. So this was never an option for me.

I could have put the drum in the mill and take off the head and drive them forward but never had to. The swedges usually tear off of the stud only leaving five marks in the hole. Could be I never lube them so they shear more then they gull the hole.

Sorry if I offended anybodies method. I tend to do that sometimes. After doing things for a long time it always seams to be the only way.

Having several dogs, they all piss different. Some squat and some lift their leg, but they do all achieve the same result in the end.
 
LOL. Love the dog piss analogy. That was awesome. I have had limited success just knocking swedged studs out. About 50/50 I guess. Even still, it's a real simple solution if you knock one out and enlarge the hole. Just get a little larger diameter stud. lol
 
Though not correct I have used the press out studs method also. Just because I have trashed a few drums with a press trying to take out the hubs with studs installed. Then I mike the holes and buy new knurled studs. I use this as an oppurtunity to rid myself of left handed studs.
 
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