fuel regulator question

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Hammer

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On my Slant 6 turbo build; what type of regulator/pump setup should i be looking at? Can I run my stock fuel pump and get a regulator with no return and a boost reference(and if so; are these referred to as "non-bypass" regulators)? Or do I have to run a return for such an application? I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible. And I'm aware that people have drilled the stock fuel pump for a boost reference, but I'm not really feelin' it. So what should I do here?:glasses9:
 
Hammer said:
On my Slant 6 turbo build; what type of regulator/pump setup should i be looking at? Can I run my stock fuel pump and get a regulator with no return and a boost reference(and if so; are these referred to as "non-bypass" regulators)? Or do I have to run a return for such an application? I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible. And I'm aware that people have drilled the stock fuel pump for a boost reference, but I'm not really feelin' it. So what should I do here?:glasses9:
Click to expand...

Hard to answer that question because you didn't say how much boost or power you're going to try to make.

The following stock, but mildly turbo'd 225/904 should give your 3300-pound A Body timeslips in the high 14s at about 92 mph. Ball park figures...

On an otherwise stock, but turbo'd engine, you can probably get by, if you limit your boost to under 10 pounds, with a stock fuel pump and fuel lines/pickup... just be sure you run a boost-reference line from the carb hat to the "back" side (top, I think,) of the fuel pump body.

Failure to do that will starve the carb under boost, NOT something you want to happen!!!

If your desire is to run over ten pounds of boost, for more horsepower, then I'd think that you're going to need to install a bigger (3/8" or 1/2") pickup in the tank, and run larger-diameter fuel lines, an electric pump, and a boost-oriented regulator to deal with pressure issues at the carburetor.

A proprerly boosted /6 can surpass 500 horsepower, but it takes a lot of gasoline to feed such an engine, and this is not an area where you can skimp on component quality. Build it right and it will reward you with time-slips that will astound you... :profilel:
 
Hammer said:
I'll be running 8psi of boost.
Click to expand...

I'd ask someone who's actually DONE IT (all I know is what I read), but I have heard that 8 pounds of turbo boost on a 225 will work well with a stock "everything" and forged internals are not required... and, a mechanical (maybe a heavy-duty, to be safe) pump, as long as you boost-reference it, should work well.

I'd bolt on a stock-type 2bbl "Super Six" intake and a 350cfm Holley 2bbl (blow thru modified) and dial the timing back to 18 degrees, and go for it.

Fourteens, here you come!!!!! :)

You might start looking around for an 8.25" rear. Remember, these turbo /6 motors LOVE rear axle ratios in the 2's....:cheers:
 
I yanked my turbo setup this weekend because of some strange fuel problems.
I used the stock pump ( referenced to boost ), but the problem was that every time I'd stay in the boost for a full throttle run, the pump would quit after returning to idle ( almost like it lost prime ). The filter in the engine bay would be empty and the car would die. I'd have to crank it over with the reference and line to the carb disconnected before it would start moving any fuel. Not sure what was really going on because I really didn't have the time or the energy to spend days trying to troubleshoot my daily driver...
I was running the 350 CFM holley with just a vent tube extension.
So now I'm stuck waiting to scrounge funds for a real fuel delivery system....so close yet so far...
 
Well just some more background info on this build: the engine has the stock rotating assembly but EVERYTHING else is prepped for boost(ie rings, bearings, bigger valves, ported head, and a custom cam). The carb I have is a Demon 575 cfm "blow thru" that will be turned sideways on an Offenhauser aluminum intake. The project is at somewhat of a stand still because the engine is at a shop getting a stainless steel turbo header fab'd for it. The turbo is custom and was pieced together specifically for this application(its comperable to a GNX turbo though). A HKS super sqv BOV will do the hootin'The front mount intercooler is already mounted on the car(and even fit with the stock grille, BARELY). And to cool it all, I got a champion 3 row aluminum radiator(a little over kill, I know; but I say better safe then sorry). What I don't have yet...the ignition system(but I'm probably going with a programmable 6AL-2) and the fuel system...like I said before(and is now re-enforced by player1up's post) I don't feel comfortable using a mod'd stock pump on this build. Not when there are more than enough regulators to choose from that will probably work nicely for this build. Just want to keep it simple if I can, you know?
 
CUUDAK said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Walb...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19c4947ba4

One of these with a Boost reference regulator and your ready to go. I am using Aeromotive and deadheaded at the regulator but I am using a pump controller.
Click to expand...

Ok, I hear that. So an electric inline pump with a by-pass regulator is the way to go :cheers:. So here's another enigma. As far as I can tell my car(71 Demon) already has a fuel return line. When I first bought the car I saw this extra hardline and was like "what the F is that for!?" :dontknow:. I traced it back under the car and it goes back to the gas tank!(to the top of the tank i believe, but dont quote me) And before anyone thinks it; it is NOT the fuel line(the bottom pic is of it with the rubber hose still attached). I know this because I've had it all hooked up before and the line I was using for the fuel line worked great. So has anyone ever seen this mystical hardline before on a mopar? And if so, is it a good canidate for a return line for this hypothetical system?? It occured to me it may be some sort of vent tube; but on the 71 tank, there are like 4 other ones on the driver's side of it...so what gives??
 

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Its part of the crankcase evac/vapor return system. Garbage!
 

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The "garbage" comment was most likely referenceing the vapor system itself.
you "could" use it, BUT after years of not having anything in it, it's at least rusty if not plugged with ( insert some insect nest here ) :lol:
As for where it connects to the tank, the hole in the end of the tube sticking out of the tank is about as big as a pencil lead ( for vapor ).... you'd have to cut the end of it off.
 
player1up said:
The "garbage" comment was most likely referenceing the vapor system itself.
you "could" use it, BUT after years of not having anything in it, it's at least rusty if not plugged with ( insert some insect nest here ) :lol:
As for where it connects to the tank, the hole in the end of the tube sticking out of the tank is about as big as a pencil lead ( for vapor ).... you'd have to cut the end of it off.
Click to expand...

Nothing a little compressed air and a dremel tool can't fix, I'm sure...
 
Hammer said:
So I'll be able to run a EFI pump as long as a regulator is being used? (which obviously will be for the boost reference too) Does the max pressure rating on a pump mean anything if a regulator is being used?
Click to expand...

We could go on for days. Best bet is to spend some time over on TTF! Lotsa good info to be read there. Lot of info on what NOT to do too!

www.theturboforums.com
 
Here is what you could do, economically, for a goal under 750 crankshaft-hp.

Walbro 255HP Fuel Pump....In-Tank

Mallory Bypass Style 0-15 psi regulator

NEW 3/8 Feed and Return.

Bham! Good to go to 600 Wheel Horsepower....and ANY Psi.
 
Never use a EFI pump, waaay to much pressure.
Find out what the reccomended fuel pressure is for your carb. Thats where your regulator will be set with a inline fuel pressure gauge.
Holley,Edelbrock,Carter,Barry Grant,Aeromotive are soime good choices for pumps.
These pumps should be mounted below the gas tank,on the passanger side frame rail.
If you need a return line is what you are going to need to find out.
No experience with turbos.
The 2 parts of a fuel pump are fuel pressure (PSI) and volume (GPH). A stock slant mechanical pump puts out around 4-5.5psi and 30gph. A Holley blue pump puts out up to14psi and flows up to 110gph.
I think your leaning in the right direction. The turbo will need more fuel than a stock pump can put out.

Check out the Carter 4070.
Have heard good things about this pump. 4-6psi no regulator needed. 72 GPH.
 
Johnny Dart said:
Never use a EFI pump, waaay to much pressure.
No experience with turbos.
.
Click to expand...

Our turbo /6 is an experimental project that may well end up with 30+ pounds of boost, if we don't manage to blow it to smithereens before we get that done.

So, we need 30 pounds of fuel pressure just to counteract boost, a fuel pump capable of putting out that much to feed the carb, plus the 7-1/2 pounds for the amount to keep the fuel flowing past the needle and seat, PLUS, counteracting the weight of the half-inch column of gas in the fuel lines that's being accelerated at a (hopefully) g-rate exceeding something approaching 1.

Add that all up and you get a number kind of like 45 psi.

Is this in the area of a EFI system???

I dunno, but I'm thinking it might be.
 
Bill Dedman said:
Our turbo /6 is an experimental project that may well end up with 30+ pounds of boost, if we don't manage to blow it to smithereens before we get that done.

So, we need 30 pounds of fuel pressure just to counteract boost, a fuel pump capable of putting out that much to feed the carb, plus the 7-1/2 pounds for the amount to keep the fuel flowing past the needle and seat, PLUS, counteracting the weight of the half-inch column of gas in the fuel lines that's being accelerated at a (hopefully) g-rate exceeding something approaching 1.

Add that all up and you get a number kind of like 45 psi.

Is this in the area of a EFI system???

I dunno, but I'm thinking it might be.
Click to expand...

Hi Bill
Like I have said, I have absolutely 0 experience with turbos.
Might want to find out what the other turbo guys are running for fuel systems.
But if you think you need 45psi, I believe you.
Most EFI pumps I have seen generally put out between 30-70 psi.
So,if you need 45psi,with a regulator of course, your in business.

Have been following your build, and am anxiously waiting for the unveiling...:thumblef:
 
Probably overkill in your case but I am using the Aeromotive A1000 pump, A1000 Boost referenced regulator and a Aeromotive pump controller. New, about $1000 in these 3 parts! I lucked out and got the new pump controller off ebay for $170 instead of $451 from jegs. I also got the pump and regulator from a local racer fer cheap too!

Again, overkill but hey, I am already thinking "Upgrades" LoL!
 

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Johnny Dart said:
Hi Bill
Like I have said, I have absolutely 0 experience with turbos.
Might want to find out what the other turbo guys are running for fuel systems.
But if you think you need 45psi, I believe you.
Most EFI pumps I have seen generally put out between 30-70 psi.
So,if you need 45psi,with a regulator of course, your in business.

Have been following your build, and am anxiously waiting for the unveiling...:thumblef:
Click to expand...

We won't see 30 pounds of boost for a long, long, time (if ever) but, that is our goal.

The thing is, the /6 is such a STRONG engine in terms of its ifrastructure, we 'd like to know what its limits are, if it has any, (and undoubtedly, it does) but we're going to start out with 10 pounds of boost and work our way up, slowly, from there. There are a couple of guys on this BB who routinely run boost levels in the mid-20s, and they go pretty fast with that setup. We are not convinced that more boost would do anything destructive to the motor, so unless we find out otherwise, eventually, we plan on testing the limits of this little brute.

But, first things first.... we've got to find out if it will even run, before taking that next step.

Neither my racing partner (Freddie,) nor I, have any experience with turbos OR slant sixes, so you can see that the learning curve will be pretty steep...

Throw in the combined ages of him and me (145) and, you can begin to appreciate what a stretch this whole operation is...:toothy10:

Hide and watch... this could be funny!!!
 
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