Having a fit with the passenger's drum on '67 Dart

[mrstangblb]

I am in the process of reworking the brakes on our '67 Dodge Dart with 9" drums all around. The driver's side has really been no problem so far, and I have replaced the wheel cylinder, shoes and springs with Raybestos parts from RockAuto.com.

Looks like somebody must have previously stripped the threads on the lugs on the driver's side and put new ones in (I did that on my '66 when I was out of college - popped 2 lugs off before I knew they were reverse thread). This drum was in two pieces (outer part of the drum and the inner part with bearings)... and by "two-piece drum," I mean that the driver and passenger drums are both identical to each other.

It looks like when the lugs were replaced in the driver's side drum they took out some anchor fasteners that hold the inner housing for the bearings to the outer drum. That makes the driver's side drum essentially a two-piece drum while the passenger's side is a one-piece drum - because the passenger's side drum is exactly the same but has those anchor fasteners holding it together.

I've turned the drums and am going back to the passenger side. I've replaced the wheel cylinder, springs and shoes there, but just like when I tried to take the drum off to replace the parts, now it won't go back on. The adjuster is all the way down tight to allow for the most room for the shoes to contract, and I was hoping with new shoes and everything something might work to get it on without this much trouble.

What now? The adjuster on the driver's side is actually screwed out part of the way and there was still no problem putting that drum back on. The passenger's side won't go on, and if it did it would be so tight that it probably would barely move. The passenger drum, by the way, is still one-piece, not two like the driver's side. Looks like the original lugs are intact.

I've never run into anything like this, so I'm at a loss. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[67Dart273]

The shoe lining should be longer on one shoe than the other (primary/ secondary) is it possible that you got two primary or two secondary shoes together on one side?

Are you absolutely sure the cups are bottomed out in the cylinder, and that the pushrods aren't hung up, etc?

Sometimes this stuff gets "cocked" on the backing plate, and you have to grab the whole "assembly" of shoes and wiggle 'em around to get them "seated" where they belong on the backing plate.

Have you tried swapping the drums left/ right? (Just to try the fit?)

It might be possible that you have an iffy pair of shoes, that is, damaged, bent, even a wrong shoe, or someone put the wrong lining or did not properly arc them.

 

[mrstangblb]

Good questions. I had a time just trying to get the passenger's side drum off to begin with, and that was with about 12,000 miles or so already on those older shoes.

I've got all the shoes correct on both sides (I've checked, rechecked and checked again with the shop manual and have them exactly right and to make sure they were all the same size they should be with the correct primary and secondary shoes in the proper places).

I will check to make sure the cups are bottomed out, but I even took a rubber hammer to the shoes to see if I could do anything to compress them any more.

I did wiggle everything around to make sure they're seated correctly.

I did swap the drums, and the driver's side drum does exactly the same thing that the passenger's side does - it binds and won't go any further than about halfway without sticking on the shoes on the one side, but it goes smoothly back on the driver's side with no problem at all.

It really looks like I have identical shoes, etc. on there because I've wracked my brain trying to make sure everything is right. Tonight I'm going to put the shoes and everything on the back, but I don't expect any problem with that assembly.

 

[mrstangblb]

Cool profile pic, by the way! Here's the Dart so far (obviously not in the garage up on stands - this is from a couple of weeks ago)...

89,615 original miles - sat more than 4 years in a shed after my Great Aunt got sick. After she died a few weeks ago she wanted my Daddy to have it, so we've been working on it since to get it up and going. It's a great looking car and the interior looks almost brand new. She literally only drove it pretty much to the grocery store and back once a week up until a few years ago (she didn't have to drive it to church - she lived right beside her church so she could walk).

 

[mrstangblb]

I made sure to take pictures before I took everything off just so I'd make sure I would get everything back on correctly AND am checking the shop manual as I go. Here's what the brakes looked like before I took them off:

You can see a little of the grease/dirt on the shoes on the outsides after I finally was able to jerk the drum off, but these shoes had plenty of surface left on them. I just wanted to go back on with new hardware after it sat for years. Good thing I did, too - the old adjuster cables were fraying.

 

[69swinger340391]

Check the adjusters......I think that the 10" drums have slightly bigger adjusters and you may have that installed on the side that is giving you the problem. Also check the bar (I think its called an equalizer) that goes between the shoes just above the axle line. The 10" drums also may use a bigger bar and if any of those parts are installed on your 9" drums, that could be your problem.

 

[mrstangblb]

I'll check tonight, but I know there aren't any bars or equalizers on the fronts. I'll check the adjusters, though. I checked the driver's side adjuster against the passenger's side adjuster, and they were the same size.

 

[BrianT]

I can't help with the brakes not fitting but I can help explain the two piece drums.

When I did the front brakes on my 67 and the drums were shot. We couldn't figure out how to separate the hub from the drum. We finally found an old Chrysler guy that said we needed to use a swedge cutting tool to separate them. We looked all over but could never find one. We finally found an old shop that had one and they let us borrow it. It is basically a hole saw type bit that fits over the stud, and cuts away the part of the drum that is swedged to the hub. We put the tool in a drill press and cut the drum free from the hub. The new drums just fit back over the hub like any ordinary drum would.

Good luck with your brake problem.

 

[67Dart273]

.......... said we needed to use a swedge cutting tool to separate them..........is basically a hole saw type bit that fits over the stud, and cuts away the part of the drum that is swedged to the hub..

Actually it is the STUD that is swedged, much like a rivet, but this is correct

 

[MyBlueCuda]

Back off the adjustment on your parking brake adjuster. Also looking at your picture on my crappy monitor you may be missing the strut bar and spring. Looks like it's just an adjustment problem though.

 

[mrstangblb]

I can't help with the brakes not fitting but I can help explain the two piece drums.

When I did the front brakes on my 67 and the drums were shot. We couldn't figure out how to separate the hub from the drum. We finally found an old Chrysler guy that said we needed to use a swedge cutting tool to separate them. We looked all over but could never find one. We finally found an old shop that had one and they let us borrow it. It is basically a hole saw type bit that fits over the stud, and cuts away the part of the drum that is swedged to the hub. We put the tool in a drill press and cut the drum free from the hub. The new drums just fit back over the hub like any ordinary drum would.

Good luck with your brake problem.

Pretty interesting. I didn't think it was a big deal when I saw it in 2 pieces, but it's nice to know there's nothing wrong with it!

 

[mrstangblb]

Back off the adjustment on your parking brake adjuster. Also looking at your picture on my crappy monitor you may be missing the strut bar and spring. Looks like it's just an adjustment problem though.

The adjuster is completely tightened down, and the back brakes only have the strut bar and spring. That's what the shop manual shows, too, that the bar and spring only go on the back.

 

[mrstangblb]

I can't help with the brakes not fitting but I can help explain the two piece drums.

Pretty interesting info. I figured it must have been something like that, but that's great to know!

 

[MyBlueCuda]

The adjuster is completely tightened down, and the back brakes only have the strut bar and spring. That's what the shop manual shows, too, that the bar and spring only go on the back.

You are confusing the brake shoe adjuster (star wheel) with the parking brake cable adjustment nut on the long parking brake cable. Loosen up the adjuster nut on the rear cable. I'm still pretty sure that you are missing the parking brake strut bar and spring on the rear if the pic you are showing is the rear. They are an integral part of the parking brake.
Here is the procedure for your rear brakes:

1. Release parking brake lever and loosen cable adjusting nut to be sure cable is slack.
2. With rear wheel brakes properly adjusted (star wheel), tighten cable adjusting nut until a slight drag is felt when the rear wheels are rotated. Then loosen the cable adjusting nut until both rear wheels can be rotated freely.
3. To complete the operation, back off an additional two turns of the cable adjusting nut.
4. Apply and release parking brake several times to be sure rear wheels are not dragging wen cable is in released position.

 

[MyBlueCuda]

OK I looked at the pic on my wife's laptop. Now I see you are talking about the RF and not the RR brakes. I ran into this problem in the shoponce.It was a defective new brake shoe with the lining too thick.

 

[mrstangblb]

It was my fault on that drum problem... I looked closer last night, and somehow the adjuster wheel assembly had maneuvered itself into the wrong spot. Instead of being attached to the vertical notch it was somehow attached at the bottom of the shoe, making them too wide to get the drum on. What a relief!

I guess I had looked at this problem for so long I was overlooking the obvious... but thanks to you guys helping me talk it out I was able to see what the problem was. Now - I got the rear shoes and hardware on last night, and I only have one more wheel to go. Hopefully I might get the whole deal (master cylinder, hoses and all) done this weekend, and that would be GREAT!

Here are shots of it in the garage now: