Help! 2 wire Alt convertion question?

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64dart170

64dart170

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Hi guys, Still rewiring "BOF" for ABodyBetty. I have a quick question.
Our 1967 dodge dart has been converted to 2 field wire Alternator & Solid state replacement regulator (replaces old style tall one not 3 prong).
1 field wire goes to the field conection (screw on conector) on the voltage regulator. Where is the 2nd field wire supposed to go? I would tell you were it was but that's the tease so you can tell me where it's supposed to go! LOL
HEY! WATCH THE LANGUAGE! I'm not going to put it there either!
While your getting the right info together, check the pics:
"Bride of Frankenstein" got her own tent today sense I have been living out there with her I thought we should be comfortable!
Check out "Baby" just lounging around in a shady spot in the driveway........
What would we ever do without her?.................................................:-D

67 tent 011.jpg


67 tent 012.jpg
 
mullinax95 said:
I believe your problem is the voltage regulator... I converted mine to a two field alternator (75 amp I believe it was) and used this regulator with no problems. Electronic voltage regualtor:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...CDelco_18050444-P_204_R|GRP60003_994526920___

You can also order the correct connector for the voltage regulator at NAPA... you can get all you need at NAPA also.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response mulliax95! It does not have a 3 prong set up like the one at advance, our store wants $62.00 for that one. The pic of the regulator I posted must have been originally in a after market up grade but is now sold at Autozone for only $22.00. It is a solid state (electronic) replacement of the old style 1 field wire set up.
There was a back country work around that I heard from an old mopar head here locally. The 67 system is currently working as a 1 field wire system with the reg pictured.
The question was: Where does the 2nd field wire go when you are using a 2 wire alt and want to "fool" it into a single wire field system?
LOL! I know that's why some of you will say it almost caught on fire the other morning after tow!! LOL
OK, 2 wire Alt currently working in a 1 field wire system, where does the 2nd field wire lead too???? That's the 10 million question! LOL (BOF is making me half nuts) But I have looked at several schematics and I would have never guessed this answer!!!!=P~

Thanks for the schematic!!!!Yea!!!!!
 
The electronic reg is a 2 prong not 3. That alternator is designed for a electronic regulator not a solid state regulator. Look at the wiring diagram. That's reason you are blowing bulbs, etc... the solid state regulator is not regulating properly. The solid state reg are for the "flat back" alternators early model type. You have the late model "square back" alternator which requires the late model electronic voltage regulator.

"It is a solid state replacement of the old style 1 field wire set up"

You don't need the solid state believe me.
 
mullinax95 said:
The electronic reg is a 2 prong not 3. That alternator is designed for a electronic regulator not a solid state regulator. Look at the wiring diagram. That's reason you are blowing bulbs, etc... the solid state regulator is not regulating properly. The solid state reg are for the "flat back" alternators early model type. You have the late model "square back" alternator which requires the late model electronic voltage regulator.

"It is a solid state replacement of the old style 1 field wire set up"

You don't need the solid state believe me.
Click to expand...
Hey mullinax, I beleive you. I'm going to the store to get back old Alt. The car has been running great (on & off due to other problems) sense we bought it 6 months ago with this rigged back woods old school work around. My old alt had 2 field wires and this flat solid state version I pictured. We have never had electrical problems before and after looking at this system we think I blew a regulator when we had battery and alt disconnected. I forgot and applied power at batt to check something with headlight remembered and shut off and disconected batt due to headlights not lighting I relized I mussed up due to alt disconnect. When we went to test radiator I then found burnt fuse link & replaced. (still not realizing we blew regulator) Wouldn't start, replace ballast resist. Started then surged and blew alt also, full field overcharge boom boom out went the lights!!!LOL8)
Anyway, sorry I didn't look close enough to the reg you pictured at advance it is 2 and believe that's 73 and up??. I went to autozone and ordered the one it has always had on it. The 2 wire Alt replacement I got at Advance was recomended to use the old style regulator and another picture came up that looked like yours. The Alt pictured they sold me as a direct replacement for my old one that checked bad. I told him they did not look the same but they have the same part #'s!?? I'm still getting back my old one tomarrow...........
I'm now lost in a sea of electronic sphagetti!!! I'll study the schematic you sent tonight when thing settle down here. I won't hang anymore parts today, I'm pretty burnt just trying to figure out.
Did you figure the old shcool work around yet?:-D
 
I would just get the correct triangle type connector , buy the electronic regulator, and wire just like the wiring diagram. The alternator you have now puts out more amps than your old alternator (which is good). You are actually upgrading from you early model charging system to a late model charging system. Find out how much amps the new alt is putting out and then double check to make sure the electronic reg that you're going to buy is sufficient for that alt.

I did the charging system conversion and never looked back. The lights don't dim at red lights, and run all my accessories with no trouble.

Oh.... I installed a 4 ga wire from the alt to the starter relay... that's a little over kill but I would recommend atleast a 8 ga wire with the late model charging system.
 
mullinax95 said:
I would just get the correct triangle type connector , buy the electronic regulator, and wire just like the wiring diagram. The alternator you have now puts out more amps than your old alternator (which is good). You are actually upgrading from you early model charging system to a late model charging system. Find out how much amps the new alt is putting out and then double check to make sure the electronic reg that you're going to buy is sufficient for that alt.

I did the charging system conversion and never looked back. The lights don't dim at red lights, and run all my accessories with no trouble.

Oh.... I installed a 4 ga wire from the alt to the starter relay... that's a little over kill but I would recommend atleast a 8 ga wire with the late model charging system.
Click to expand...
I'm feelin ya!! I'll have to eat the $22.00 reg I got, buy the one for $62.00, the connecter at NAPA and make the jump. I'll have to take out the alt to view specs? What other modifacations will I have to make?
It just really hurts, $300 carb, $290 radiator, water pump, now all this, all in 4 weeks and has only been in driveway!!
Did you figure out my country riddle yet for 2 wire Alt on 1 wire system?
 
64dart170 said:
I'm feelin ya!! I'll have to eat the $22.00 reg I got, buy the one for $62.00, the connecter at NAPA and make the jump. I'll have to take out the alt to view specs? What other modifacations will I have to make?
It just really hurts, $300 carb, $290 radiator, water pump, now all this, all in 4 weeks and has only been in driveway!!
Did you figure out my country riddle yet for 2 wire Alt on 1 wire system?
Click to expand...

I don't remember what the actual price of the elec reg was but I don't remember it being that high. The connector is not that expensive. I would just make sure whatever I do is make sure I know how much amps the alt is putting out and confirm that I am getting the correct elec reg to match. I would recommend doing the amp gauge by pass via madelectrical.com if anything bolt the leads together RED to BLACK with bolt and lock washer. Install large heat shrink to cover the connections. Install a volt meter now or later not a amp but volt meter. That's pretty much it for the up grade.

That alt looks to between 50 and 60 amp version.
 
mopar head said:
I upgraded, and they say to just ground the spare field. I just put a small jumper to alt case
Click to expand...
:cheers:mopar head, you have just stated what the answer was for the old school work around riddle! The old codger here told me they used to buy the 2 wire ALT if they couldn't get a 1 wire ALT. They would take out 1 of the insulators from 1 of the fields conectors and put the screw back in without the isolater washer, to ground the 2nd spare field!!!!!
That's why the butchers who owned "Bride of Frankenstein" ran the 2nd field wire pictured with white wire and ran it to the bracket screw of the regulator grounding it!!! That's why I couldn't beleive they had wired a field to ground and had started this thread! Been learning on the fly the past few days!
So that's why I figured we blew the regulator by applying batt power to system when alt was disconected and that's where the latest tsunami came from when all the problems started cascading, not the field wire grounding to the Alt housing!!!!!!
You Da Man!!!!!:cheers:Can we get an OH YEA!!!! Uh huh! LOL!!
 
mullinax95 said:
I don't remember what the actual price of the elec reg was but I don't remember it being that high. The connector is not that expensive. I would just make sure whatever I do is make sure I know how much amps the alt is putting out and confirm that I am getting the correct elec reg to match. I would recommend doing the amp gauge by pass via madelectrical.com if anything bolt the leads together RED to BLACK with bolt and lock washer. Install large heat shrink to cover the connections. Install a volt meter now or later not a amp but volt meter. That's pretty much it for the up grade.

That alt looks to between 50 and 60 amp version.
Click to expand...
Thanks Again kind sir!!! I will look into the alt I purchased and get my old one back & check it out. Also thanks again for the schematics. I'll have to print out and look at tonight. I see better when it's on paper!LOL!!:-D
 
64dart170 said:
:cheers:mopar head, you have just stated what the answer was for the old school work around riddle! The old codger here told me they used to buy the 2 wire ALT if they couldn't get a 1 wire ALT. They would take out 1 of the insulators from 1 of the fields conectors and put the screw back in without the isolater washer, to ground the 2nd spare field!!!!!
That's why the butchers who owned "Bride of Frankenstein" ran the 2nd field wire pictured with white wire and ran it to the bracket screw of the regulator grounding it!!! That's why I couldn't beleive they had wired a field to ground and had started this thread! Been learning on the fly the past few days!
So that's why I figured we blew the regulator by applying batt power to system when alt was disconected and that's where the latest tsunami came from when all the problems started cascading, not the field wire grounding to the Alt housing!!!!!!
You Da Man!!!!!:cheers:Can we get an OH YEA!!!! Uh huh! LOL!!
Click to expand...
LOL!! ha da man? no, just followed instructions in the box:-D I`m just like a lot of guys here, work on my own junk, since I was a kid and I`am not too proud to still ask questions 33 years later either. good luck on getting her fixed.
 
mullinax95 said:
I don't remember what the actual price of the elec reg was but I don't remember it being that high. The connector is not that expensive. I would just make sure whatever I do is make sure I know how much amps the alt is putting out and confirm that I am getting the correct elec reg to match. I would recommend doing the amp gauge by pass via madelectrical.com if anything bolt the leads together RED to BLACK with bolt and lock washer. Install large heat shrink to cover the connections. Install a volt meter now or later not a amp but volt meter. That's pretty much it for the up grade.

That alt looks to between 50 and 60 amp version.
Click to expand...
Hi Again Mullinax95,
There is a sun gadge volt meter not in use between temp & oil pressure. After bypass of ammeter where did you pull "voltage" readings from for volt meter?
By the way I'm startin to get jazzed about checking both the Alts, old and new tomarrow! God I think I need to get a real life when I grow up!:toothy10:
 
mopar head said:
LOL!! ha da man? no, just followed instructions in the box:-D I`m just like a lot of guys here, work on my own junk, since I was a kid and I`am not too proud to still ask questions 33 years later either. good luck on getting her fixed.
Click to expand...
Thanks Mopar head, just had another friend call. He had a Dodge work truck with the tool box bed, forgot what year, he said it blew a voltage reg and he couldn't find the regulator. Checked with local yocal mopar nut here and used to work at Dodge. The regulator was in the ECM, $300.00! They did a wire tap and installed a regulator on the fire wall & bypassed regulator in ECM! I got to go to bed soon, my head is starting to hurt learnin all this stuff!:read2:
 
use your newer square back alt,and get the correct regulator and 3 pin plug,, all you have to do is add one wire,,from the alt back to the new regulator,,

the advantage of the newer charging system is,besides better charging is,,when you are at idel at a trafic lite at night with your head lites on radio,foot on your brake,,ever see your headlites flicker,,brite then dim,,,that is the old style regulator doing that it doent charge at idel,,only when you raise the engine rpm...the new style regulator is a constant charge,, then delete your amp gauge,and install a volt gauge,,the old amp gauge wil not take the amperage of the new altenator,,and it wil either short out or it will quit working,,if it quits working the car will not start,,the complete car is running thru that amp gauge,,
 
On My 65 "waggin" all that was done was to take one of the field wire coming from the alternator to ground.but adding in the later model voltage regulator will be a nice upgrade!!
 
waggin said:
On My 65 "waggin" all that was done was to take one of the field wire coming from the alternator to ground.but adding in the later model voltage regulator will be a nice upgrade!!
Click to expand...
Hey waggin, thanks for the shout out. After the give and take over the threads the last few days I think I got it. I'm pretty sure that's what they did, there is a wire from 2nd field to bracket of upgraded regulator. I'm thinking in AM double check both alts for amp specs.
Correct me if I'm wrong but short of going full out on adapter and multipin plug style regulator, I think my choices are as follows:
A: Run new "replacement" ALT, (same part # as before, I already have now)
with 2nd field to ground bracket at regulator, like present, with newly purchased replacement regulator, like present, or
B: Return new ALT for 1 field wire style and run everything else like present except removing the extra field wire to ground.
Also bypassing the Ampmeter in dash & hooking up the volt meter in the gadge cluster under dash.
I learned all this from this web site and a couple of loco (L) mopar freaks. 48 hours ago I was clueless! At least I think I'm on track. Still trying to figure my horn wires pictured. Heck I'm so tired I'm not sure if my typing is coming out OK??????????????????:toothy10:
 
fstfish66 said:
use your newer square back alt,and get the correct regulator and 3 pin plug,, all you have to do is add one wire,,from the alt back to the new regulator,,

the advantage of the newer charging system is,besides better charging is,,when you are at idel at a trafic lite at night with your head lites on radio,foot on your brake,,ever see your headlites flicker,,brite then dim,,,that is the old style regulator doing that it doent charge at idel,,only when you raise the engine rpm...the new style regulator is a constant charge,, then delete your amp gauge,and install a volt gauge,,the old amp gauge wil not take the amperage of the new altenator,,and it wil either short out or it will quit working,,if it quits working the car will not start,,the complete car is running thru that amp gauge,,
Click to expand...

Hi fstfish66,
You got to admit when your at the stop at night and you see me sitting on the other side of the intersection in neutral reving my engine and my headlights are going from bright white to an orange, 1/2 of a childs birthday candle, you say to your self, "I wonder what kind of vintage classic that is on the other side of the street. I'll check it when the light turns green. He should really upgrade his charging system before it burns to the ground"! LOL
Sorry I think I'm starting to suffer from over learning, worring, & lack of sleep. Heck I forgot to buy beer today. I'll have to goto the state line tomarrow!:toothy10:
Thanks for the heads up I really have been learning alot from everyone here.
Will be doing bypass & hooking up that volt meter.
Thanks Again & I hope everyone has a happy Fathers day!:cheers:
 
do it correctly,,and your car wont burn up,,,,40 plus year old wiring,,,isnt any thing to play with...its not hard to di it correctly,,,add the one wire,,and get the modern 1973 and up voltage regulator,,,
 
here are the different setups. first thing transistorized is a fancy word for an electronic regulator. the one you have will work just like the newer dual field setup. the other field wire simply runs through the newer regulator and uses it basically like an electronic switch to ground that other side. so by you just grunding it to the case you are doing the same thing. if you look at the old alt. it accomplished this by grounding the other brush side to the case.

All I would do is ground the other field to the case and use the electronic regulator you have. get the newer style 60-70 amp unit and replace the main charge wire with at least 10 gauge wire and also bypass the ammeter at the bulkhead since it won't support the extra amps anyway.

pre70alt.gif


70upalt.gif


altconversion.gif
 
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