Help! Doug's headers in 67 barracuda

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67cuda360

67cuda360

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I finally got around to installing my D453 doug's headers in my 67 Barracuda but i'm running into some problems. The headers are hitting the steering box (borgeson quick ratio), one tube touches the torsion bar and the rear header tube is touching the steering column. (I'll attach images further down.)

The car is a 67 Plymouth Barracuda with a '74 k-member (spool mounts), '74 360 engine and 727 TF transmission.

I thought I had all the problem areas covers when I bought the Doug's Headers and picked up a mini-starter, and upgraded my stock power steering to the smaller Borgeson unit to have more space, but no such luck.

The Borgeson steering box is unbolted and pushed over to the side to get the headers in and would still need to move back towards the header another 1/4" to be able to get it bolted back in. I also had to unbolt the steering column from the firewall to be able to get the headers.

Any magic trick to get these in or am I going to have to hammer it to fit....? (really don't want to do that LOL)

EngineColumn.jpg


EngineSteeringBox.jpg


Underside-Torsionbar.jpg


UndersideSteeringBox.jpg
 
How much room is on the passenger side between the header tube and the torsion bar? Looks like the engine needs to be moved over the the pass side - easy to do with biscuit style mounts.
 
I don't think I can move the engine over since I have spool mounts (73+ k-member). I haven't even started on the passenger side yet. I wanted to do the difficult side first LOL.
 
On a ‘67 the steering column jacket is longer than on later cars, it usually has to be shortened to clear any of the headers for these cars. You can try loosening the bolts on the lower column mount and shifting it over, but you may not get enough clearance that way.

this is my ‘74
CA32591A-1D4F-4C2E-99E8-8CDA8ADF887E.jpeg


This is another members ‘67
4573701A-ACD0-44D0-AEC2-CCFB1588B89C.jpeg


The borgeson box I can’t help you with, but the headers were not designed for use with the borgeson box. It’s smaller, but it’s not the same shape so you may have to add some dents/dimples to make those headers work. You might try contacting @BergmanAutoCraft, he sells the borgeson boxes and may have an idea of the clearance issues.

Same for the torsion bars. I have the D453’s on my ‘74 Duster with the spool mount K, I dimpled the tubes on both sides of the engine to clear the torsion bars. Even with the 1.12” torsion bars I run the dimples were relatively small.

These cars have body tolerances of a 1/4” or more, even the expensive headers (Dougs, TTI’s) are a “one size fits most” affair. Which means, a few small dimples and dents are frequently necessary. The earlier biscuit mount K’s are easier to shim and move the engine around on to adjust the header clearance. With the spool K’s the engine pretty much sits where it sits.
 
Thanks 72bluNblu, good to know about the column being longer on the 67's. Can I just take the column out and cut a few inches off that tube. It looks like there is just a bearing sitting in the bottom correct? I guess I just loosen the collar nut (that sits on the shaft just under the column) and then with a bit of luck I would be able to pull the bearing out...?

And yes, I guess I'll have to dent the pipes for the borgeson pump and the torsion bars.
Is there a best way to do this? I was thinking maybe put some tape around the area to reduce scratching and maybe put a large round socket against the pipe and hit the socket with a hammer?

Or should I use high localized heat and then bang it directly with a hammer?
I should have just bought the steel header and then get it coated after it was test fitted LOL
 
67cuda360 said:
Thanks 72bluNblu, good to know about the column being longer on the 67's. Can I just take the column out and cut a few inches off that tube. It looks like there is just a bearing sitting in the bottom correct? I guess I just loosen the collar nut (that sits on the shaft just under the column) and then with a bit of luck I would be able to pull the bearing out...?

And yes, I guess I'll have to dent the pipes for the borgeson pump and the torsion bars.
Is there a best way to do this? I was thinking maybe put some tape around the area to reduce scratching and maybe put a large round socket against the pipe and hit the socket with a hammer?

Or should I use high localized heat and then bang it directly with a hammer?
I should have just bought the steel header and then get it coated after it was test fitted LOL
Click to expand...

No problem!

You can shorten the column jacket, but you’re probably going to have to pull and disassemble the column and shaft to do it. It’s not impossible to do it in the car but it won’t be easy.

Some of those issues are addressed in a how to article I did awhile back about replacing the lower bearing. I don’t have a ‘67 though. In the discussion there are some members that explain what they did on their earlier cars, at least one is a ‘67. How To Replace your Lower Column Bearing: Better and Cheaper!!!

As for denting the headers, using tape or a rag to keep from tearing up the coating is a good idea. Using a socket and a hammer works. It takes some trial and error and depends on how much material you have to move.

Heat works too, but it will screw up the coating and if you don’t need a huge dent that isn’t necessary.
 
I put Dougs in my 318 68 Barracuda. The only issue I had the header almost hit the steering column. I used truck motor mounts which are a little taller and that took care of it. I have a mini starter and manual steering box.
 
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I put Doug's on a spool K-frame ('76 Duster). No dents or dings needed, fit like a glove. I think when parts are mixed-matched, problems with header installation get surface pretty quickly.
 
I haven't measure the engine placement, but since this is a spool mount k-member there is no adjustment like there is with the biscuit style engine mounts. I am going to dent the header where the borgeson pump hits it (not Doug's fault since the borgeson pump is wider than the stock pump in that spot). I'll also dent the area near the torsion bars. From what I'm reading this seems pretty common and since my car is not at all stock, I shouldn't be expecting anything less LOL.

I'll have to think about the steering column solution. I was wondering if it would be possible to cut a small section out of the column outer sleeve and move the bottom section (with the bearing in it) up and weld it back onto the outer sleeve. See picture below. Is this possible or is there another inner metal sleeve that the shaft rides in..?

EngineColumn-Mod.jpg
 
I would pull the column to do any cutting. There is some adjustment in those mounts at the engine but not much. I think you will be able to get around the column and torsion bars but the steering box you will have to dimple the header.
 
I wonder if you could move the K-Frame over a little.
 
jefflock said:
I wonder if you could move the K-Frame over a little.
Click to expand...

No to moving the k frame ! That would mess up a bunch of stuff.
You could try using a humongous pair of channel locks "really big" , to squeeze tubes for clearance, be sure to insulate w/ something to quard against teeth marks, I did a couple of tubes on mine , w/ a pair of 18'' channel locks , but you will need bigger most likely. Of course you`ll have to mark the header and pull it out to do this .
 
Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
They are in and so far so good. Unfortunately I had to grind down a bit of the Borgeson Powersteering box and dent the header tube to create enough clearance. (fortunately you can't really see it). I also had to dent the #7 tube to clear the steering column (only a problem for '67 vehicle) I also had to clearance the pipes around the torsion bar. The only modifications needed were on the drivers side. I dented the headers with a very large Socket wrapped in tape so it wouldn't scratch the pipes. The dents worked out pretty well. Hated to have to do it, but I guess that's why they call it Hot rodding. Probably would never have been an issue if the car was stock. My car is a 67 but runs '74+ k member and aftermarket steering pump etc.

IMG_2848.JPG


IMG_2937.JPG


IMG_2939.JPG
 
67Cuda360

Thanks for posting this question and your experiences. I am getting ready to purchase headers for a 67 Barracuda convertible with a 318. I was thinking about using Doug's 453s - seems like a great balance between cost and quality / fitment. My 67 is stock as far as the K frame, mounts, power steering box and column. So you believe that should fit without major issues?
 
It seems from what I gathered that the stock power steering box would be okay. It'll be tight but from what other people said it should fit. You'll have the same issue with the steering column ('67 specific issue) getting very close to the #7 header tube, so you might have to clearance that.
One thing that might be an issue is that the steering centerlink/idler arm also is one year specific for '67 but summit does list that the headers fit on a 67 barracuda so you'll probably be fine. A mini starter is definitely a must if you have an automatic. Hope that helps. Oh, and you might want to pick up some new engine mounts before you start the install to make sure you minimize any fitment issues LOL. Good luck, let us know how it went.
 
67cuda360 said:
It seems from what I gathered that the stock power steering box would be okay. It'll be tight but from what other people said it should fit. You'll have the same issue with the steering column ('67 specific issue) getting very close to the #7 header tube, so you might have to clearance that.
One thing that might be an issue is that the steering centerlink/idler arm also is one year specific for '67 but summit does list that the headers fit on a 67 barracuda so you'll probably be fine. A mini starter is definitely a must if you have an automatic. Hope that helps. Oh, and you might want to pick up some new engine mounts before you start the install to make sure you minimize any fitment issues LOL. Good luck, let us know how it went.
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Thanks. This is a new engine install and I will be using new engine mounts - original biscuit style. I will be installing the new headers as the engine is lowered into the bay. I am fine with having to dimple tube 7 if need be, just hoping not to have to do much more than that.
 
Oh and I did end up bending new transmission cooler lines. The ones that were on there, interfered with the headers so I bought some new line on a roll and bent new ones myself. Was very easy and cheap.

Biggest thing about installing these headers is that you need to get the car a long ways off the ground. The headers need to be installed from the bottom and I almost had to stand my headers up straight to get them in, so my car was up about 2ft off the ground.

Things I ended up doing to successfully install?
Drain the radiator first LOL, remove the exhaust studs that go into the water passages on the block (front and back of both driver and passenger side of the engine block have studs instead of the bolts used on the rest of the exhaust manifolds), disconnect both inner tie rods from the steering linkage, disconnect the idler arm from the steering link and move the steering linkage out of the way, undo the engine mount bolts. Jack the engine up as high at it will go, don't forget to remove the distributor cap so it doesn't break against the firewall while jacking the car up. Remove the old starter and loosen up the power steering box mounting bolts (no need to remove the box, you just want to create some extra wiggle room) also loosen the steering column from inside the car (3 bolts at the lower firewall, close to the gas pedal). When installing, do everything in reverse, but don't forget to put some thread sealer on those bolts that go through the water passages.
 
67cuda360 said:
ha ha, that is perfect to install them when you are lowering the engine in place. That should make it a breeze.
Click to expand...

Yes, my goal is not to touch the steering system. I plan to move the engine and headers around them. Since it will be on a hoist with room to work above and below, that should be doable. If I can't do that, then they don't fit. I am hoping to have the new mini starter installed before hand, but that is negotiable. There will be no radiator in the car yet. Trying to plan this to make it work properly with minimal force - as in forcing them into the car. Thanks for the advice.
 
thecatsfan said:
67Cuda360

Thanks for posting this question and your experiences. I am getting ready to purchase headers for a 67 Barracuda convertible with a 318. I was thinking about using Doug's 453s - seems like a great balance between cost and quality / fitment. My 67 is stock as far as the K frame, mounts, power steering box and column. So you believe that should fit without major issues?
Click to expand...
I have a 67 fastback 340 w/727 factory power steering no mods to steering or suspension.
I installed a set of TTi headers and they hit everywhere.
Replaced wore out stock motor mounts with a set of Mitty Mounts - no more issues.
Been running fine without hitting anywhere for 3 years.
What a pain in the *** that was.
 
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On my 68 318 barracuda with the stock k member I had kind of the same issues. I switched to truck motor mounts which are a little taller. The taller mounts cured my issues. But I had the biscut mounts.Maybe the spool truck mounts are a little taller as well??
 
68383GTS said:
On my 68 318 barracuda with the stock k member I had kind of the same issues. I switched to truck motor mounts which are a little taller. The taller mounts cured my issues. But I had the biscut mounts.Maybe the spool truck mounts are a little taller as well??
Click to expand...
Im putting Doug 453s in my 68 Barracuda. 340, 4spd, factory power steering box, stock k frame. Steering column out. No t bar issues. Left side installs fine with p/s box out, no room to reinstall p/s box and vice versa. Anyone solve this issue using the Borgeson box alone? Reading through the thread I will raise the car further, and start raising the engine/ possibly truck mounts.
 
I've often gained clearance at the torsion bar by careful using a ratchet strap around the trans, or t-bar as nec., to coax the tubes/collector over .
A fencepost works well too.
Engine placement
Footnote #39
 
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67cuda360 said:
Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
They are in and so far so good. Unfortunately I had to grind down a bit of the Borgeson Powersteering box and dent the header tube to create enough clearance. (fortunately you can't really see it). I also had to dent the #7 tube to clear the steering column (only a problem for '67 vehicle) I also had to clearance the pipes around the torsion bar. The only modifications needed were on the drivers side. I dented the headers with a very large Socket wrapped in tape so it wouldn't scratch the pipes. The dents worked out pretty well. Hated to have to do it, but I guess that's why they call it Hot rodding. Probably would never have been an issue if the car was stock. My car is a 67 but runs '74+ k member and aftermarket steering pump etc.

View attachment 1715493553

View attachment 1715493554

View attachment 1715493555
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, I'm installing Doug 453, 68 Barracuda, 340, factory K, new factory biscuits, same Borgeson Box, same problem you had at #1 tube. Have not attempted shifting engine yet.
 
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