Help me decide - Big or small bolt pattern?

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DemonSwede

DemonSwede

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I need your advice on something. I've got drums all around on my Demon right now and I'm planning to do the "standard" disc brake conversion in the front this winter. As you can see from the pic I'm currently running all black steelies with the small 5 on 4 bolt pattern, 14´in the front and 15´in the rear and I REALLY like the look of the black steelies on my car so I'm not really that interested in moving to something else. But then again, doing the conversion there's first of all the issue with fitment. I've seen that some kits supposedly work with the 14´wheels just as long as the BS is enough. But secondly, am I just being stupid keeping the small bolt pattern and is it better to just switch to the bigger one while I'm at it? I guess one possible alternative if I would like to go to the bigger pattern down the line is to use bolt on wheel spacers. I'm actually already considering spacers to move the wheels out app 1.5´.

Thoughts?:) Also any tips on kits that you KNOW works with 14´ wheels would be appreciated I'm thinking of running manual brakes btw.

Thanks!


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Personally, Black Steelies w/ chrome lug nuts kick ***. Old School Cool and tough as nails! I'm kinda scared of spacers, as I've heard some horror stories about em. That Said, you Have MANY more options for wheels ( hope in steel with the correct back space) in large BP.... however, I'm behind in the times, and not very educated in the current market. Car looks Sick! ( I ran staggered on my 66 Sat) so I may be biased, looked great. Lol. And Yout Mopar does too!
 
IMO- I like original Mopars, so the small bolt pattern is fine for me. If my Mopars were to be wearing larger tires or aftermarket wheels, then I would go the larger 15x4 1/2 for better wheel selection.
 
The look you want with your car is the same as telling a woman what she needs to look good and feel confident...... Do your thang.....

Going large bolt pattern opens up the market for aftermarket wheels. SBP is extremely limited and I never see that changing. I personally do like the way a 15" tire fills up the Wheel wells however I like the original look of the tight Lugnut pattern of the SBP. But that's my car, my way....

Nice ride, enjoy it!

JW
 
i prefer large bolt pattern. change the front and rear over. at the very least i prefer the larger rear drums over the tiny small bolt stuff. i'm running 11" drums in the rear.. plus its easy to go to rear disc if you ever wanted.. not sure if there is a small bolt rear disc kit out there or not.


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15 inch wheels are available in sbp through several vendors and not too bad price wise. But, if you want to keep sbp you are going to have to find either the early KH set up or go aftermarket. If you go 4.5 BP for disc what are you going to do with the rear? Plan on a Dr Diff axle and drum package on top of your front brake upgrade. We ran 4.5 on the front of my sons 73 Duster but had a 69 8.75 rear and we kept the 4 inch pattern. Ya 2 wheel bolt circles but we had 275/60R15 Nitto drag radials on 15x8 in the rear.

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DemonSwede said:
I need your advice on something. I've got drums all around on my Demon right now and I'm planning to do the "standard" disc brake conversion in the front this winter. As you can see from the pic I'm currently running all black steelies with the small 5 on 4 bolt pattern, 14´in the front and 15´in the rear and I REALLY like the look of the black steelies on my car so I'm not really that interested in moving to something else. But then again, doing the conversion there's first of all the issue with fitment. I've seen that some kits supposedly work with the 14´wheels just as long as the BS is enough. But secondly, am I just being stupid keeping the small bolt pattern and is it better to just switch to the bigger one while I'm at it? I guess one possible alternative if I would like to go to the bigger pattern down the line is to use bolt on wheel spacers. I'm actually already considering spacers to move the wheels out app 1.5´.

Thoughts?:) Also any tips on kits that you KNOW works with 14´ wheels would be appreciated I'm thinking of running manual brakes btw.

Thanks!


View attachment 1715997756
Click to expand...

One issue I see is if you only convert the front to BBP, the spare tire is not much use unless you carry two different wheels.(not much chance of that happening). So, now you have to convert the front and rear to BBP. If you want to retain the 14" Sbp wheels you have, there are companies out there that offer disk brake conversion kits for 14" wheels. Manual disk brakes will work fine.

BTW, your car looks awesome!!
 
Factory Kelsey Hayes, SBP stock Rally all the way around, ordered Pirate Jack rear disc kit, large print note in box, "will not fit 14 wheels"
Getting Cragar ss 15x7 rear cragars for rear, SBP
 
I have small bolt 14s on my 70. I think in my case the issue is tire selection. I am looking for 14 inch aluminum slots, they are expensive when you can find good ones that fit. If I had large bolt 15s it would be easier I'm thinking.
 
Stayed SBP on my 64 when I did the front disc conversion. Ended up having to go find new wheels due to caliper clearance on my old school aluminum slots. Wasn't happy about that. The single piston calipers take up a lot more room so be aware.
 
Car looks absolutely killer, my only thought is that it is probably not cheap or easy to get parts where you are, and the simplest thing to do is the Kelsey Hayes small bolt original disc setup. There are a couple of members here that sell them from time to time.
On my 1970 Dart I ran them with the original 10 inch drums without any problems as a daily driver and occasional drag strip pass. Unless you are planning on getting into autocross or serious drag racing you will likely be fine with that setup. Someone mentioned Pirate Jack rear disc conversion as well, May be a good option too.
I also had sbp rallye wheels on my 70.
 
Tires. It's all about tires. Choices are almost dried up for 14" tires. My advice, go 15".
 
Wha
DemonSwede said:
I need your advice on something. I've got drums all around on my Demon right now and I'm planning to do the "standard" disc brake conversion in the front this winter. As you can see from the pic I'm currently running all black steelies with the small 5 on 4 bolt pattern, 14´in the front and 15´in the rear and I REALLY like the look of the black steelies on my car so I'm not really that interested in moving to something else. But then again, doing the conversion there's first of all the issue with fitment. I've seen that some kits supposedly work with the 14´wheels just as long as the BS is enough. But secondly, am I just being stupid keeping the small bolt pattern and is it better to just switch to the bigger one while I'm at it? I guess one possible alternative if I would like to go to the bigger pattern down the line is to use bolt on wheel spacers. I'm actually already considering spacers to move the wheels out app 1.5´.

Thoughts?:) Also any tips on kits that you KNOW works with 14´ wheels would be appreciated I'm thinking of running manual brakes btw.

Thanks!


View attachment 1715997756
Click to expand...
I would go big bolt pattern if I had to for 2 reasons, wheel selection and disc brakes. I don't have the need. Both of mine are drum brakes and I am happy with the wheels.

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005 (2).JPG
 
I’m a big believer in using the standard Mopar designed parts. That includes the rotors, spindle, caliper, control arms, hoses, master cylinder, distribution block and sway bar from a 73 to 76 A-body. In order to get around issue of calipers getting in the way of the sway bar either switch to the later style (73-76) k-frame and motor mounts or do what I did. I wanted my 69 440 ‘cuda to look more factory correct so I removed the bottom of my big block ‘69 k-frame and welded on the later model bottom so that the sway bar goes through the k-frame rather than in front of it. On the rear I switched out the SBP 10” brakes for BBP 10” brakes from a ‘66 B-body. I never had a braking issue with this car and that’s because I used all of the parts as specified and designed by Chrysler. Years later I was talking to a former founder of one of the larger brake conversion companies and he said that I was one of the smarter people when it came to this type of conversions.
 
Functionally, there's nothing wrong with staying with the small bolt pattern, and the factory small bolt pattern Kelsey/Hayes disc brakes are arguably better than the later large bolt pattern disc setup. But as previously stated, wheel availability comes into play; as does parts availability- which is already kind of dicey here in the U.S., I can only imagine how it is in Sweden.
A possible compromise is offered by Dr. Diff: A late A body disc brake system with small pattern rotors. The best of both worlds- parts availability and keep your small pattern.
10.95" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 1)
The only possible issue that I see with this kit is the hub diameter. Factory small bolt wheels have a smaller center register than the large bolt units, and I don't know if the register on his small bolt discs have also been reduced appropriately to fit factory steelies (not an issue with aftermarket rims, since they are not usually hub-centric). Call/contact him to confirm this. An added benefit to this (in your case) is that the late disc setup widens the front track about 3/4" on each side, possibly eliminating or at least reducing your desire to run wheel spacers.
Edit: One other bonus is that if you ever do decide to change to large bolt circle, all you'll have to do is get stock late A rotors, and you're done.
 
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Most people who convert to big bolt pattern do it for better wheel choice. If you have wheels you like, in small bolt pattern, why change? I would get dimensions from your front wheels (width, backspace, and center hole diameter,) and call Dr Diff, find out if his small bolt pattern disc kit will work.
Edit: you might want to consider going to 15" front wheels/tires. 14s are going the way of the dodo.
 
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Thanks all for your input, appreciate it! Well, got something to think about this weekend for sure! I’ll definitely consider the Dr Diff solution and will give them a call next week with my wheel specs! But you are of course right in terms of choices for wheels and tires with 14’ and SBP.
 
www.bigblockdart.com

Disk Brake Conversion Info

A-BODY DISC BRAKE CONVERSION It's helpful to know the various chassis designations in order to find the correct parts. Please refer to the Chassis Style page for more info 1. Upper Control Arms, from 1973-1976 A-Body Disc Brake Car. (single Piston Caliper only) The upper control arms are...
www.bigblockdart.com www.bigblockdart.com


www.bigblockdart.com

Spindle Comparison

www.bigblockdart.com www.bigblockdart.com
 
I used the SSBC kit on my '71 Dart GT to keep the sbp. The car has a factory installed 741 case 8 3/4" rear end. At the time I did the SSBC swap it had factory 14" X 5 1/2" Rallye wheels which I was happy with.

A few years later, I decided I wanted 14" X 5 1/2" sbp steel wheels. I found and bought a set of 4 of the 14" X 5 1/2" steel wheels. Sadly, the steel wheels did not clear the calipers. I probably could have done some creative grinding, but decided to stay with the Rallye wheels (I put 15" X 7" on the rear).

I did the SSBC brake swap about 17 years ago, maybe the parts are different now.
 
Professor Fate said:
Functionally, there's nothing wrong with staying with the small bolt pattern, and the factory small bolt pattern Kelsey/Hayes disc brakes are arguably better than the later large bolt pattern disc setup. But as previously stated, wheel availability comes into play; as does parts availability- which is already kind of dicey here in the U.S., I can only imagine how it is in Sweden.
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And not only in Sweden. Outside of North America in general.
My Demon has originally (K/H?) disk brake rotors, but small bolt pattern hubs.
As I've been lucky enough to find a BBP road wheels (mag500) set and later, a BBP rallye wheels set (both 14" diameter), I had to take a decision.
I opted for 1" BBP conversion wheel spacers.
Adapter1.jpg

Works very well, slightly widens the wheels and fills better the wheel arch.
No caliper or drum clearence issue.
And this way, it's still possible to mount SBP wheels if needed.

blue demon 1.jpg


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François
 
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I went with 235/40r19 on 19x8 inch wheels. Clears the calipers and the aftermarket a-arms. After marking 3 inch back from power fender bracket and relocating there are no clearance issues. May get fat rear skiney front for a change later.

IMG_20221003_131259.jpg
 
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