Help me get into the 12's for cheap

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73dartneedswork

73dartneedswork

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One of my goals with my 73 Swinger is to have it run in the 12's. High 12's would suffice.
My best run is 14.8 at 90 mph.
The car is currently a 318 with what I believe is a stock bottom end. 1 5/8 summit headers, Performer intake and Holley 600 carb. 3:55 suregrip 8 1/4 and I believe a stock converter. I run a 26" drag radial.

I want to keep my current gear ratio because I do drive the car a lot around town and on the freeway.
I want to keep my full interior because I make my wife and kids ride in the car with me.
I don't want to run nitrous
I don't want to spend much money. I understand I have to spend some.

These are the ideas I had.

-junkyard 360 magnum swap. Buy the motor from Pick N Pull for around $250. From what I've read it sounds like I would have to spend close to $2,000 with the new heads, re-ground cam, oil pan ect. It's kinda more money than I want to spend but it should create enough power to get me into the 12's.

-junkyard LA roller 360. I can buy one from Pick n Pull for around $250. I would stay with the 308 heads and I could have the cam reground. Would it make enough power to hit my numbers. It might be the cheapest option.

-new heads and cam on my 318. I think Engine Quest heads would be the cheapest but I would still be around $1,500 with heads, cam and intake. Would it make enough power?

With any of the above options I would still need a better converter.

What sounds like the best option?
 
Check out the sticky for 12 second combos. lots of good info.
 
-junkyard 360 magnum swap. Buy the motor from Pick N Pull for around $250. From what I've read it sounds like I would have to spend close to $2,000 with the new heads, re-ground cam, oil pan ect. It's kinda more money than I want to spend but it should create enough power to get me into the 12's.
Here we go: A stock 360 a body oil pan,E.Q.,heads,30 horsepower across the board over stock Magnums (stay 1.92 valve.). If you order E.Q. heads,buy the ones with the L.A. head bolt pattern. Have your stock cam ,reground. (Oregon Cams,keep it under .510 -.520 " lift.(valve retainer to valve guide possibly). All else ,good valve springs are needed here. I recommend asking spring pressures & installed height, upon initial phone call/email. Ask lots of questions here,before the goofy sales pitch.
 
It's not all about making horsepower. Get a good converter built to your specs. Sticky tires, good gear, and suspension.

A lot of people thing 12s is just power but there is more to it. Good luck!
 
I went 12.30-12.50's in a 3400lb car with:

360 LA roller engine, stock bottom end, thin head gaskets to raise compression (ran on 87 octane), new bearings and rings, ball honed
Custom ground Hydraulic roller (IMM engines) with if I recall had about 230/230 at .050 duration, 106 LSA installed on a 101 ICL and .540 ish lift??, IMM Rhs heads, hughes 1.6 rockers
Airgap intake, 750HP carb, 1-5/8 headers, 3" exhaust with x pipe and borla mufflers.
Caltracs, 28" ET streets, and a 4.10 gear


was a fun engine that I beat the ever living **** out of, and it ran on junk gas. I would imagine with an auto and the right converter slightly faster times could have been had. Sometimes I still wish I had kept the engine just like that and sprayed the piss out of it to run 10's, blow it up, junkyard shortblock and do it all over again
 
I totally agree with "doogie" that horsepower isn't everything.....But with that said, being a street/driver type car, you'll need some extra power to make up for some of the deficiencies versus a race type setup. I'm guessing your 73' in full street trim will weigh close to 3500lbs with you in it. With a perfect race combo & gearing, 320/330hp could get you in the 12's pretty easy. If it was me looking to do what you want, I'd shoot for 350/360hp to cover for the car being in street trim and having 3.55's.

I'd forget the teen at this point.....yes it can do it, but the extra cubes & 3.58" stroke, just make it so much easier. I agree the LA360 may be your best option form a cost standpoint. With a appropriate regrind, cleaned up heads, a Eddy RPM intake, a 750ish carb, along with a stout matching converter, as "doogie" said, and some sticky tires, I think you can get there.

Depending on the outcome from that, a little chassis tuning could be helpful? That really depends on how far towards racing you decide to go.

Good Luck! it's gonna be a lot of fun. :thumleft:
 
Don't let yourself get discouraged. The first time I built my motor I was thinking it would be close to 12s. Took it to the track and with street tires ran a 14.2 at 96 mph. I wanted to burn my car to the ground but instead I took a break from racing and saved up enough to build it again. Now if it's still not in the 12s I might actually burn it down!! Actually I'll probably just keep racing and be the slow guy at the track that will never break out!!

Stick with it and eventually you get faster and more poor!
 
La 360, I just built mine, easy to get power out of from what I've been told. Although good engines the 318 lack the stroke of the 360 as already mentioned.

I have a 73 swinger as well, my combo is a la 360, kb .30 over 107 pistons, eddy rpm heads to create 10.6: compression, comp XE268 cam, weiand aluminum intake, and a holly 650, and a set of dougs long tube headers. Mind you my build is a bit more spendy you can achieve similar with used/stock-ish parts.

No idea how fast the car will run on the quarter mile but I'll be happy with 13-14s.

What trans are you running? the stock 904? some work to that wouldn't hurt.
 
doogievlg said:
Don't let yourself get discouraged. The first time I built my motor I was thinking it would be close to 12s. Took it to the track and with street tires ran a 14.2 at 96 mph. I wanted to burn my car to the ground but instead I took a break from racing and saved up enough to build it again. Now if it's still not in the 12s I might actually burn it down!! Actually I'll probably just keep racing and be the slow guy at the track that will never break out!!

Stick with it and eventually you get faster and more poor!
Click to expand...


For sure, you gotta stick with it. I definitely had my share of disappointments.....I think my worst was a 70' 400 GTO I did for a friend. It went 14.30's @ 97 with 100k miles on it and blowing blue smoke.....After my rebuild with, headers, a stout hydraulic cam, Torker intake, a 750 Holley, and 4.10 gears, it went 14.00's @ 99...:violent1: :banghead:. Sadly, I never got to take it out again because it got hit so hard while parked on a street, it drove the rear housing into the back seat :sad2:. We saved the engine, and sold it, but the car was scrap.
 
low budget, 12 seconds, street manners= big block.
your gonna need torque to haul the wife and kids around
 
basically a stock 383, with BB trans from pick n pull try to get early (1970 or before, so you get a forged crank)
aluminum intake budget $200 (eddy rpm)
schumacher mods to mount it budget $200
decent converter / carb / headers budget $600 + $600 + $600
(schumie headers are not high end performance, but good performance and ease of install/easier tuneups)
driveshaft fitment budget $200

optionals:
a light rebuild - bearings / gaskets budget $200
new rings/honing/pistons? more $

that would do 12's all day and all night

the 360 swaps above include almost all of the above anyways
 
big block all the way but it's not cheap. so that being said, LA360 don't forget the convertor. take it apart in the garage or living room which ever the wife allows. buy a ridge reamer and home take it outside and cut the ridge out then use running water and hone until the bores are nice. go on e-bay and buy a rebuild kit and solid cam & kit at .500"+, also a 750 holley. port the heads yourself and get a good valve job. get the rocker gear off a 273" motor. go back on e-bay to find a old direct connection or mopar performance manual will help to select parts. buy as many used parts that you can. that should get you moving towards your goal.
 
73dartneedswork said:
One of my goals with my 73 Swinger is to have it run in the 12's. High 12's would suffice.
My best run is 14.8 at 90 mph.
The car is currently a 318 with what I believe is a stock bottom end. 1 5/8 summit headers, Performer intake and Holley 600 carb. 3:55 suregrip 8 1/4 and I believe a stock converter. I run a 26" drag radial.

I want to keep my current gear ratio because I do drive the car a lot around town and on the freeway.
I want to keep my full interior because I make my wife and kids ride in the car with me.
I don't want to run nitrous
I don't want to spend much money. I understand I have to spend some.

These are the ideas I had.

-junkyard 360 magnum swap. Buy the motor from Pick N Pull for around $250. From what I've read it sounds like I would have to spend close to $2,000 with the new heads, re-ground cam, oil pan ect. It's kinda more money than I want to spend but it should create enough power to get me into the 12's.

-junkyard LA roller 360. I can buy one from Pick n Pull for around $250. I would stay with the 308 heads and I could have the cam reground. Would it make enough power to hit my numbers. It might be the cheapest option.

-new heads and cam on my 318. I think Engine Quest heads would be the cheapest but I would still be around $1,500 with heads, cam and intake. Would it make enough power?

With any of the above options I would still need a better converter.

What sounds like the best option?
Click to expand...

The things you need to change you aren't willing to change….
1) Change to steeper gears -- NOPE -- drive to much
2) Lighten the interior -- NOPE -- family rides
3) Spend more that $2K for a better producing engine -- NOPE -- not in the budget

With all of this in mind ---
I'd start with a change to a manual valve body trans…
Then I would get a converter that works with your gears and engine combo…
I would swap in some SS Reaf leaf springs and adjustable front shocks…
If you run front drums, swap them to disc brakes to lose the front end weight.
All can be done in under your $2K budget that you want to spend… and will give your a good foundation to start adding power to the engine.. and you can do all of this in the garage on the weekend with out sacrificing the driving around.

You can definitely make up ET'S with focusing on the engine combo you have as long as you get parts that work with each other… Plan it out around the engine you have but make sure the foundation is at its peak first…if the foundation is right you can add any engine you want later on.
 
I know you said you don't want to do this....but the cheapest option would be to spray it. 500 bucks or less if you get a used kit and you're done.

The big block option would not be even on my radar....unless you don't mind spending a little more, and don't mind doing a BB conversion (if you're good with that, then go for it). A stock big block in an A body is still going to be too slow more than likely. You would have to do some of the same things to the big block to get it in the ET zone you are looking for (cam, carb, intake, converter) + special mounts + BB trans + A body BB headers to get it in the car. I have seen more than a few guys that put big blocks in their cars expecting it to make some astronomical change, only to find out their car is not much faster...if any. One of the guys I race with swapped from a mild 360 to a mild 440, gained nothing (except a lot of weight on the nose of the car)...actually, I think it slowed down a tenth, but I'm not certain (runs 12.8's). My point is, no matter what you put in there (small block or big block), it will take some extra $$$ to make it in the 12's.

You will be handicapped by keeping those gears, but I would go the LA 360 route, home port the heads (lots of time, but very little money involved), put a decent size cam in, + Airgap + 750carb + a GOOD CONVERTER...this should do it (that's about $1500 if you shop around for parts and do all the work yourself).
 
flyfish said:
I know you said you don't want to do this....but the cheapest option would be to spray it. 500 bucks or less if you get a used kit and you're done.

The big block option would not be even on my radar....unless you don't mind spending a little more, and don't mind doing a BB conversion (if you're good with that, then go for it). A stock big block in an A body is still going to be too slow more than likely. You would have to do some of the same things to the big block to get it in the ET zone you are looking for (cam, carb, intake, converter) + special mounts + BB trans + A body BB headers to get it in the car. I have seen more than a few guys that put big blocks in their cars expecting it to make some astronomical change, only to find out their car is not much faster...if any. One of the guys I race with swapped from a mild 360 to a mild 440, gained nothing (except a lot of weight on the nose of the car)...actually, I think it slowed down a tenth, but I'm not certain (runs 12.8's). My point is, no matter what you put in there (small block or big block), it will take some extra $$$ to make it in the 12's.


You will be handicapped by keeping those gears, but I would go the LA 360 route, home port the heads (lots of time, but very little money involved), put a decent size cam in, + Airgap + 750carb + a GOOD CONVERTER...this should do it (that's about $1500 if you shop around for parts and do all the work yourself).
Click to expand...

The converter is the killer. I didn't know much about racing when I got my converter five years ago. I got a cheap knock off that flashes at 3000 rpm. Car doesn't run anywhere nears it's potential but you get what you pay for. It will more then likely be the most expensive part of your build but also the most important. LEARN FROM MY MISTAKE!
 
Without reading everyone else suggestions.... My stuff runs 12.70's and I haul the family around everywhere with 3:55 and 275/60's. Not sure how it relates to your 318 but good luck. I always said if I got my car to run 12.99 I would be happy. I'm more then happy with how it runs for a 3550 full street car. I don't know how cheap is would be to duplicate but there's surly nothing special... Stock stroke, iron heads....

[ame="http://youtu.be/gx4RqZ9cTCM"]http://youtu.be/gx4RqZ9cTCM[/ame]

Heres my posting from the 12 sec thread...

360 .030 over
Stock Crank, Stock Rods
10:1 flat top pistons
Non ported X heads.
Heads have been decked a bit... they were not a matched set so one needed to be cleaned up true and the other brought down within spec of its new mate. Wish I had numbers but it cant be that much... runs fine on 91 oct... anyway..
Cheap small tube header
Comp roller tip 1.5 rockers
Comp Xtream Energy Cam... XE274H-10 .488 int/.491 exh hyd flat tappet.
Eddy RPM Performer Air gap out of the box, gasket matched...
Holley 650DP

904 trans w/ no name crappy 3000 converter

8 3/4 w/ 3.55's
275/60 r15 (too big for gear)
 
I appreciate all the replies!

If I pulled a junkyard Magnum 360 with stock and probably cracked heads and added a crosswind intake, headers and my 600 Holley carb would I have anywhere close to enough power?

I could buy the motor, oil pan, new balancer for LA style pulleys, electric fuel pump and intake for around $800.

Once I figure the direction I want to go, I'll start collecting the parts and do the swap this winter.
 
73dartneedswork said:
If I pulled a junkyard Magnum 360 with stock and probably cracked heads and added a crosswind intake, headers and my 600 Holley carb would I have anywhere close to enough power?
Click to expand...

With that...^^^^^^^^^^ Yes you'd have power...Probably 14sec power, not that there's anything wrong with that.:smile:

Still not bad for the investment though.....
 
73dartneedswork said:
I appreciate all the replies!

If I pulled a junkyard Magnum 360 with stock and probably cracked heads and added a crosswind intake, headers and my 600 Holley carb would I have anywhere close to enough power?

I could buy the motor, oil pan, new balancer for LA style pulleys, electric fuel pump and intake for around $800.

Once I figure the direction I want to go, I'll start collecting the parts and do the swap this winter.
Click to expand...

With the right cam, different valve springs, edelbrock air gap and a holley 750 DP you can get close to 400 hp. This should get you into the 12s. With the right converter gears and traction that is. That's what I did I just haven't had it to the track yet. I would be happy with 12.999. I basically copied the Mopar 380hp/360 magnum crate engine.
 
If you are going to start with a junkyard short block, start with the Magnum engine for a couple of reasons. If you don't plan to rebuild the short block, the Magnum will more likely have less wear and tear and better tolerances.

If you pulled the heads on the LA 360 and found out the pistons are .088 down in the hole, what are you going to do? The Magnum should be much better in this regard and be a better foundation to build on.

$250 for the short block (make sure you get the flexplate with it)
$100 for oil pan and pickup (you can go used to save $$$)
$850 EQ heads (order with the springs you need for your cam)
$350 custom ground roller (you can go with a regrind here to save $$$)
$000 reuse rockers
$ 85 new pushrods
$ 75 shift kit for trans (you can lookup how to do this without a kit to save $$$)
$ 60 thin head gaskets
$600 torque converter (you get what you pay for here)

You want a good converter for a couple of reasons. With a good converter you can have a higher stall at the track and still retain good street manners. You should be able to have 3200 - 3500 stall at the track and be able to drive around on the street normally without melting the transmission.

Quick example: I once had a car that had an after market torque converter that cost close to $300. I replaced it with a custom that cost $525 at the time and went from 13.20s with a 2.02 60ft to 12.30s with a 1.58 60ft. on MT ET Drag radial 235-60R15.

The 2 biggest things that control how an automatic car performs is the cam and the converter. Go custom on both and know for sure they are a matched set.
 
You ran 14.80's with stock heads, cam and converter. Can a really good head, cam, and converter combo push you to a 12.99??? Boy, them are the kind of projects that I love.... and might be cheaper! How about a set of 308 heads off of a 89-91 360. Cheap, and flow very well, especially on the exhaust side. Should be able to grab a set for cheap, cheap, cheap. Then a .455 lift cam from MP (idle -5800), and a really good converter. Hmmmmm...... this all could be done for less than 800 bucks.... And perhaps .030 KB pistons??? puts ya around 1200.00. I bet you get your 12's
 
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