Help Required: Slant 6 Engine Identification

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Nigel Hely

Nigel Hely

64DartDownUnder
Joined
Sep 13, 2016
Messages
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Location
Blue Mountains, Australia
I'm in Australia, we are restoring a 1964 Dodge Dart GT, but with a few tasteful period modifications. It's a nice car, it's coming along nicely, (photo included) but I'm pretty sure the engine is not the original. In Australia, we recognise the 3-welch plug engines as 145hp and 5-welch plug engines as 160hp. All our engines have the oil filter remotely fitted to the manifold side, with pipes connecting to the oil pump. The engine in this car has 5-welch plugs, the oil filter is fitted directly to the oil pump behind the distributor. Pretty sure it has been reconditioned recently, goes great, no smoke, starts easy, behaves itself. Can someone identify what this engine is originally out of? Engine number is: PF225R-24540814.

D_0002.JPG
 
Nigel Hely said:
I'm in Australia, we are restoring a 1964 Dodge Dart GT, but with a few tasteful period modifications. It's a nice car, it's coming along nicely, (photo included) but I'm pretty sure the engine is not the original. In Australia, we recognise the 3-welch plug engines as 145hp and 5-welch plug engines as 160hp. All our engines have the oil filter remotely fitted to the manifold side, with pipes connecting to the oil pump. The engine in this car has 5-welch plugs, the oil filter is fitted directly to the oil pump behind the distributor. Pretty sure it has been reconditioned recently, goes great, no smoke, starts easy, behaves itself. Can someone identify what this engine is originally out of? Engine number is: PF225R-24540814.

View attachment 1714979276
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no help, but, nice looking car!
 
Nigel Hely said:
In Australia, we recognise the 3-welch plug engines as 145hp and 5-welch plug engines as 160hp.
Click to expand...

No, sir. The 160hp version became available in the 1967 VE models, but the 145hp version remained available alongside it until the Slant-6 was replaced by the Hemi-6 for the 1970 VG models. The block is not different between the 145 and 160 versions -- just the manifolds, carburettor, air cleaner, linkage, and some other bolt-on bits. The difference between 3- and 5-plug blocks is when and where they were cast. US production of 5-plug blocks began in late 1967 for use in 1968 models. According to the R-VG factory parts cattledog, 5-plug blocks were originally installed in Australia starting with the 1969 VF models.

All our engines have the oil filter remotely fitted to the manifold side, with pipes connecting to the oil pump.
Click to expand...

Well…not counting the R (oil filter on RH inner guard/fender) and S (oil filter atop water pump) models.

The engine in this car has 5-welch plugs, the oil filter is fitted directly to the oil pump behind the distributor.
Click to expand...

That's the standard LH-drive oil pump and filter configuration.

Can someone identify what this engine is originally out of? Engine number is: PF225R-24540814
Click to expand...

PF: Probably actually PT, engine built at Trenton Engine Plant (other option is PM, Mound Road plant)
225: Displacement
R: Regular-fuel engine
2454: Engine assembled on 16 April 1968
0814: Engine serial number for that day's production at that plant

If your car has an automatic transmission, you have to hope whoever swapped in this engine knew that when putting a '68-up engine in front of a '67-down transmission, you need a ring to take up the space between the small-nose torque converter and the large-bore crankshaft, else transmission front pump bushing and seal life will be short.
 
Hi Dan, thanks for the reply.
I do realise both engines were available VE, VF, although I'd question the 5-plug blocks commencing with VF's because our usage of slant sixes ended with the introduction of the 1970/Hemi/VG range, with exception of maybe some utilities and export or base-spec cars.
Thanks also for decoding the engine number, but from that information are you able to identify what horsepower my engine is?
You've now got me worried about the need for a crankshaft bushing, because even though the car drives great, there is a worrying dull rattle from remarkably close to the torque converter that I have never been able to remove. Checked all the obvious, had the sump off whilst the steering and k-frame was off, big ends bearings, main bearings, flywheel/converter bolts, so on, they were all good, but the noise is still there.
Guess what's now at the top of the To Do List?
Lucky I'm a Fitter/Machinist I can do this easily, but I don't suppose anybody has a dimensioned drawing of what is actually needed so I can pre-make the required part?
 
famous bob said:
no help, but, nice looking car!
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Ha-Ha! Thanks Bob, we're happy enough with it, I'll post more pictures when it's finally on the road, maybe another month-or-so.
Paint is acrylic (previous owner) so I'll run it for a couple of years while I stock up on parts (and $$$) for a proper job, but at least I won't get laughed at at the traffic lights in the meantime.
 
Nigel Hely said:
I'd question the 5-plug blocks commencing with VF's
Click to expand...

Your argument is with Chrysler Australia's parts catalogue :)

Thanks also for decoding the engine number, but from that information are you able to identify what horsepower my engine is?
Click to expand...

145 -- the only rating available in the US/Canada at that time.

Lucky I'm a Fitter/Machinist I can do this easily, but I don't suppose anybody has a dimensioned drawing of what is actually needed so I can pre-make the required part?
Click to expand...

Oof. Somewhere I've got the nominal dimensions of the small torque converter nose and the large crank bore, but those won't be precise enough.
 
Hi Dan,
I'm certainly keeping you busy today!

Don't worry about the dimensions your reply to my other post will help solve it, or I'll make my own.

145hp sounds right for this car, although it does go HARD and Torqueflite shifts really smoothly!

Regarding your earlier comment on the 3/5-plug blocks and 145/160hp engines, about 20-years ago our vehicle examiners would NEVER pass an AP5/AP6/VC Valiant with a 5-plug motor unless it had disc brakes fitted, their argument was the extra horsepower?

Now, all the examiners are young guys who have never seen a carburettor, never mind a slant six, and that problem seems to have solved itself.

Not saying you are wrong, just saying this is the nonsense we have to put up with over here, yet an AP6 V8 is ok on drums???

Attached is a photo of my AP5 Valiant Regal as payment for your help (LOL), 39,000 genuine miles, unrestored, enjoy and thanks again.

1964 AP5 Valiant Regal.jpg
 
Sorry Nigel, but I can't help you with engine ID, just wanted to say what a great looking Dart you have! My intro to the Dodge Dart was when my dad bought a new '64 back in the day! Still searching for a clean, cheap one myself. Bucket list item!
 
That is a sweet AP5! I always thought the Australian AP5 was a much nicer car (front end, rear end, deck lid, roofline, backglass) than the US '63.
 
slantsixdan said:
That is a sweet AP5! I always thought the Australian AP5 was a much nicer car (front end, rear end, deck lid, roofline, backglass) than the US '63.
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Hi Dan, thanks for your comments. Appreciate your feedback. Yes it IS as good as it looks, all original, unrestored, 39,000-miles, push-button torqueflite, still on the original tyres in the picture.
 
69dartwant said:
Sorry Nigel, but I can't help you with engine ID, just wanted to say what a great looking Dart you have! My intro to the Dodge Dart was when my dad bought a new '64 back in the day! Still searching for a clean, cheap one myself. Bucket list item!
Click to expand...
Keep looking, you'll find one. Mine came out of California about two years ago, it had been resprayed (acrylic) but it will do for a few years then I'll strip it down and do it properly. In the meantime its had a Valiant (Australian) disc brake conversion, front sway bar, new interior, window rubbers and so on. Just waiting for my carpet kit to arrive then it's ready for registration. Oh, and the transmission input shaft bush that Dan wrote about, better not forget that, HaHa!
 
slantsixdan said:
No, sir. The 160hp version became available in the 1967 VE models, but the 145hp version remained available alongside it until the Slant-6 was replaced by the Hemi-6 for the 1970 VG models. The block is not different between the 145 and 160 versions -- just the manifolds, carburettor, air cleaner, linkage, and some other bolt-on bits. The difference between 3- and 5-plug blocks is when and where they were cast. US production of 5-plug blocks began in late 1967 for use in 1968 models. According to the R-VG factory parts cattledog, 5-plug blocks were originally installed in Australia starting with the 1969 VF models.



Well…not counting the R (oil filter on RH inner guard/fender) and S (oil filter atop water pump) models.



That's the standard LH-drive oil pump and filter configuration.



PF: Probably actually PT, engine built at Trenton Engine Plant (other option is PM, Mound Road plant)
225: Displacement
R: Regular-fuel engine
2454: Engine assembled on 16 April 1968
0814: Engine serial number for that day's production at that plant

If your car has an automatic transmission, you have to hope whoever swapped in this engine knew that when putting a '68-up engine in front of a '67-down transmission, you need a ring to take up the space between the small-nose torque converter and the large-bore crankshaft, else transmission front pump bushing and seal life will be short.
Click to expand...
 
slantsixdan said:
No, sir. The 160hp version became available in the 1967 VE models, but the 145hp version remained available alongside it until the Slant-6 was replaced by the Hemi-6 for the 1970 VG models. The block is not different between the 145 and 160 versions -- just the manifolds, carburettor, air cleaner, linkage, and some other bolt-on bits. The difference between 3- and 5-plug blocks is when and where they were cast. US production of 5-plug blocks began in late 1967 for use in 1968 models. According to the R-VG factory parts cattledog, 5-plug blocks were originally installed in Australia starting with the 1969 VF models.



Well…not counting the R (oil filter on RH inner guard/fender) and S (oil filter atop water pump) models.



That's the standard LH-drive oil pump and filter configuration.



PF: Probably actually PT, engine built at Trenton Engine Plant (other option is PM, Mound Road plant)
225: Displacement
R: Regular-fuel engine
2454: Engine assembled on 16 April 1968
0814: Engine serial number for that day's production at that plant

If your car has an automatic transmission, you have to hope whoever swapped in this engine knew that when putting a '68-up engine in front of a '67-down transmission, you need a ring to take up the space between the small-nose torque converter and the large-bore crankshaft, else transmission front pump bushing and seal life will be short.
Click to expand...
 
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