Hotchkis TVS with QA1 lower control arms

Suspension, Steering and Chassis

  1. drewmac

    drewmac Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone done this? I have this going into my '67 Cuda. Just wanted thoughts on the set up and if anyone envisions any problems.
    Thanks!
     
  2. GMachineDartGT

    GMachineDartGT Senior Member

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    They do not work with any sway bar other than the QA1 k and bar. I’m working on this very problem with QA1.
     
  3. drewmac

    drewmac Well-Known Member

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    Man that's bogus! :( Please keep me in the loop on what comes out if it. Thanks for the info.
     
  4. GMachineDartGT

    GMachineDartGT Senior Member

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    They are trying to sell their system which I understand. Will keep everyone posted.
     
  5. 72bluNblu

    72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Uh, I think you better clarify this. The Qa1 lower control arms can be used with any K frame, and work with any sway bar that uses the 73+ sway bar mounting tab location.

    You only need the QA1 sway bar if you have a QA1 K frame.

    This is my Duster with QA1 lowers and a Hellwig sway bar, it has a stock '74 K frame
    img_4412-jpg.jpg

    Now, with a '67 there is a complication if you have a 67-72 K frame. The sway bar mounting tab location on the QA1 LCA's is for the 73+ style sway bars, which won't work with the '67-72 K frame. So a sway bar that uses the stock 67-72 sway bar tabs won't work with the QA1's without modification. But here's the thing- the Hotchkis sway bar for the '67-72 cars does not use the factory sway bar tab location. It uses one almost identical to the 73+ sway bar tab mounting location. So you should be able to use the QA1 LCA's with a 67-72 Hotchkis front sway bar.
     
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    • drewmac

      drewmac Well-Known Member

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      Thanks 72blunblu this makes sense and I should clarify that my cuda does have the 67 factory front sway bar. I got the post 73 TVS kit cause I have the big ball joint front disc break set up so it is a mix of both. The fact that the factory arms have sway bar mounts and the 2 bars from Hotchkis are very similar makes me think this will work fine with possible minor mods. :) Fingers crossed.
       
    • 72bluNblu

      72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      The '67 factory front sway bar won't work with the QA1 LCA's. The end link tabs on the QA1 LCA's are in the 73+ location, which is pretty different compared to the factory end link locations on the 67-72 LCA's. You'd have to move the end link tabs on the QA1's to use them with a 67-72 sway bar that uses the factory tabs.

      If you have the 73+ TVS kit, the 73+ sway bar will not fit your factory 67 K frame without significant modification. The '73+ Hotchkis sway bar, like all 73+ sway bars, passes through the K frame, not under it. The 67-72 K frames do not have that provision.

      The 67-72 Hotchkis sway bar is a mix of both. It mounts under/in front of the factory K, like the 67-72 sway bars. BUT, it does not use the 67-72 end link mounts, it uses a custom location. But that custom location is basically the 73+ location.

      So, you have to be careful with your mix match of parts. The 73+ hotchkis sway bar will not fit a '67-72 K frame. A 67-72 Hotchkis sway bar will fit a '67-72 K frame, but it won't work with the factory sway bar end link tabs. So, if you have a '67 K frame, you need the 67-72 sway bar. And you can use the QA1 LCA's, because they use the 73+ end link location which works with the 67-72 Hotchkis sway bar (but not a sway bar that uses the 67-72 end link tabs!!!)
       
    • drewmac

      drewmac Well-Known Member

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      Ok. Looks like I will need the 67-72 bar. I'll ask them if I can do a trade. Thanks!
       
    • GMachineDartGT

      GMachineDartGT Senior Member

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      This is what I said from the beginning. OP said he has a 67. Using the 67-72 style K and QA1 lower arms, there is no sway bar that is a direct fit.
       
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      • 72bluNblu

        72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        A Hotchkis front sway bar for a '67-72 K is in fact a direct fit for that combination. It will work with both the '67 K frame AND the later end link tab locations used by the QA1 LCA's.

        This is from the Hotchkis instructions for their '67-72 sway bar

        Screen Shot 2019-11-17 at 3.18.53 PM.png

        And this is a set of QA1's

        img_4412-jpg-jpg.jpg

        You can clearly see that both end link mounting tabs are in the same general location on the LCA, inside of the strut rod between the shock mount and the window for the torsion bar adjuster. They may not be identical, but they're more than close enough for the endlinks to take up any small difference.

        Link to the Hotchkis instructions
        https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/hss-22385f.pdf
         
        Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
      • GMachineDartGT

        GMachineDartGT Senior Member

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        If you say so. I assume you've tried this or are you guessing?

        I tried it, it doesn't work....
         
      • 72bluNblu

        72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Hotchkis specs the same exact location for its weld on tabs for both it's 67-72 sway bars and it's '73-'76 sway bars. It's right in the instructions. The Hotchkis sway bar for the 73-76 cars also can use the factory 73+ tabbed LCA's. Also, right in the instructions. And I have tried the 67-72 Hotchkis sway bar with factory tabbed 73+ LCA's, it works. So the Hotchkis 67-72 sway bar uses the 73-76 tab locations.

        Hotchkis instructions for 67-72
        https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/hss-22385f.pdf

        Hotchkis instructions for 73-76
        https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/hss-22386f.pdf

        Actual side by sides of the instructions, both for the installation of the tabs and the location of the welded tabs for a 67-72 bar compared to a 73-76 factory tabbed LCA, which works with the 73-76 bar. Notice they even updated their instructions for the 73-76 bar for stock strut rod applications
        Screen Shot 2019-11-17 at 5.25.25 PM.png
        Screen Shot 2019-11-17 at 5.26.07 PM.png

        I also know the QA1 LCA's work sway bars intended for the factory 73+ tabbed LCA's. I did that. On my Duster I went from factory tabbed 73+ LCA's straight over the QA1 LCA's. The end links needed to be about an inch shorter with the QA1's compared to the factory tabbed 73+ LCA's, that's because the QA1's have a shorter profile height so the tab a little lower in the vertical plane.

        QA1 says the same thing in their notes "For 1964-66 applications without a sway bar and 1967-76 applications using the 1973-76 sway bar."

        I have not bolted the 67-72 Hotchkis sway bar to a set of QA1 LCA's. But, I know the 67-72 Hotchkis bar works with the 73+ factory tabbed LCA's. And Hotchkis uses the same specs for the tabs on both their sway bars. And the QA1 LCA's work just fine with a sway bar designed to use the 73+ tabs. So, I'm at a loss for how it is the 67-72 Hotchkis bar won't work with a QA1 LCA.
         
      • GMachineDartGT

        GMachineDartGT Senior Member

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        That’s an elaborate answer to say you’ve never tried it.
         
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        • drewmac

          drewmac Well-Known Member

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          Be nice boys. :)
           
        • drewmac

          drewmac Well-Known Member

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          I talked to QA1 today. They recommended I use sway bar brackets like the ones Hellwig supplies that bolt up tot he lower shock mount. I am going to fab a pair and see what happens. On a second note I talked to Jeg's and they will trade me the +73 bar from my Hotchkis kit for the 67-72 one. They were very nice. About to order Doug's headers from them so I hope this goes well also. Thanks for your replies guys!
           
        • briwill70

          briwill70 Well-Known Member

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          So will the Hotchkis 67-72 sway bar work on my 65 Dart with QA1 control arms?
           
        • drewmac

          drewmac Well-Known Member

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          I am still working in this. I should have the tabs tabbed in the next 2 weeks. I have no clue why QA1 would not offer a version with the stock sway bar location. Seems dumb.
           
        • briwill70

          briwill70 Well-Known Member

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          Yeah, very frustrating since I bought the upper and lower control arms and installed them already. I just assumed there was a way to connect a sway bar without having to modify.
           
        • drewmac

          drewmac Well-Known Member

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          Well it would be the same if you had stock arms with no mounts. You would have to do the same thing then as well. The lack of that being and option is what I am frustrated about. Look on Hellwigs website and you can see an example of the tab they provide with their sway bar kit for Mopars.
           
        • briwill70

          briwill70 Well-Known Member

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          So I would need to cut off the QA1 tabs and bolt on some? That was part of the reason for installing QA1 arms in the first place. Grrr.
           
        • drewmac

          drewmac Well-Known Member

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          No I am sure you can just bolt the tabs on the shock bolt (maybe get a longer bolt) and it should work. Just ignore the tab on the QA1 arm and treat it like a stock arm with no tab. Here is a pic:
          See where the L shaped tab is bolted to the a arm with the shock bolt? That is what I am going to do.

          p2050016.jpg
           
        • 72bluNblu

          72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          The QA1 LCA sway bar tab is located in the correct location for use with a stock 73+ sway bar. It won't work with a STOCK 67-72 sway bar, or one that uses the stock dimensions.

          But your Hotchkis 67-72 sway bar does not use the stock location for the sway bar tabs. In fact, the Hotchkis 67-72 sway bar uses a sway bar tab location that's pretty much the same as the factory 73+ sway bars.

          So with a Hotckis 67-72 sway bar you should be able to use the sway bar tabs that are on the QA1 LCA's. The 67-72 cars can anyway, not entirely sure on a '65 but if that's the sway bar you're using I don't see why it wouldn't. Hellwig's "pro-touring" front sway bar for the 67-72 cars should work too. It's only the stock bar that doesn't work.

          The reason for the 73+ location, and the reason the Hotchkis and Hellwig pro-touring sway bars use the later location on the earlier cars is because the factory 67-72 sway bar tab location puts the sway bar far enough out that it limits tire clearance pretty significantly (245 max, maybe not even that). So if you're using wider tires to go with your super massive new sway bar, you're out of luck with the factory location. Using the 73+ location for the sway bar tabs keeps the sway bar out of the way of the wider tires, making anything up to 275 possible with an 18" rim.
           
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          • drewmac

            drewmac Well-Known Member

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            Thanks for that info. I am still waiting for my Hotchkiss bars to come in (back ordered 3 months) my stock bar on my 67 is not even close to the mount on the QA1 so if in fact the Hotchkiss pre-73 bars will align up with the QA1 tabs I will be ecstatic!
             
          • drewmac

            drewmac Well-Known Member

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            I'll take pics once they do come in for everyone's reference.
             
          • 72bluNblu

            72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            You can go to Summit Racing, look up your sway bar and download the install directions for the 67-72 Hotchkis bar. It won’t tell you that the location is the same as the 73+ tabs, but it clearly explains it doesn’t use the factory 67-72 tabs. But, based on the description of the install location, you can pretty much see that the Hotchkis location is pretty much the same as the factory 73+ location. Within production tolerances for sure anyway.
             
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