How about this 360 LA combo?

[VIOLENT\6]

Okay, I have decided to forgo the de-stroked 360 idea & just go W/a streetable 10.5:1 360 for my sons "65" Valiant.

This is to be a moderate budget streetable daily driver to run on 93 octane pump gas. It will see ocasional strip use & I want it to terrorize The new Mustang GTs. I want to keep the engine work within $5000.

The car will be a sleeper & will maintain a stock appearance similar to this.

Here is the combo I have in mind. Let's say it would be coupled W/ about a 2500 RPM stall, Torqueflite W/3.91 axle ratio 8 3/4" diff.

I would start out W/a 360 LA block/rods/crank. Line bore the mains, square up the deck & take it to 0.00" W/the KB pistons. Recondition the rods W/ARP rod bolts & free floating wrist pins. The bore & crank would be cleaned up to OEM clearances.

• Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, 63cc chambers/171cc int runners/77cc ex runners 2.02/1.60 valves
• Summit Street/Strip Phase III Dual plane Intake manifold. (similar to Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap)
• KB 107040 Hypereutectic flat top pistons @ 0.00" deck, .0015" clearance.
• .050 " copper head gasket
• Edelbrock "Thunder" 800 CFM AVS carb.
• Dougs Full length ceramic coated headers.

What would be a good flat tappet cam for this set up? I am thinking Comp 480H. Can I run 1.6 rockers on the LA? I want to twist 6200 RPM out of it W/mid range torque & drivability being foremost.

Would this combo make a drivable 450 HP @ the crank?

Opinions please?

 

[lead69]

I vote for sticking with the 1.5 rockers and going with a comp xe 274 or even better the comp xe 275hl.

 

[VIOLENT\6]

I vote for sticking with the 1.5 rockers and going with a comp xe 274 or even better the comp xe 275hl.

Yeah, I just checked that grind out & I like it. Less int duration, more exhaust duration & more lift.


Thanks. :salute:

 

[C130 Chief]

I second the 1.5 rocker ratio. The combo you describe with a XE274 cam and a good flowing dual plane (I would buy the made in USA Edelbrock over the Chineese knock-off, but thats just me). You should have well over 400 streetable horsepower. Other thoughts... Subframe connectors; you will twist that little Valiant into a knot with that engine. A 904 will live behind that engine IF put together well, but a stock junkyard trans will go away pretty quick. A big cooler will help, especially if you run an agressive converter. Which brings up the converter, spend money here! 2500 RPM seems a bit low, there are some streetable, efficient 3000+ RPM converters being run by regular posters on this board, but they aint cheap.

Your son should have enough car to put the Mustangs away, and even get kicked off the dragstrip for not running a cage. Low 12's shouldnt be out of reach.

Keep the car looking totally stock on the outside, including steel wheels and dog dishes. BUT, take every "Valiant" emblem off and get a custom replacement made which says "Violent".

 

[swingtown]

hey, for 5 grand just buy a crate motor from mother mopar.

 

[dgc333]

I think you will find that the Eagle SIR rod will be less expensive than have your stock rods reworked. They come with ARP cap screws and are set up for floating pins. Plus they are matched for weight which will make balancing the rotating assembly easier.

If your goal is mid range and driveability I wouldn't go any bigger that 750 cfm on the carb. I have a 360 which makes approx 370 HP and have been swapping between a 600, 725 and 750 carb and keep going back to the 600 because of the throttle reponse and driveability.

 

[388dart]

Okay, I have decided to forgo the de-stroked 360 idea & just go W/a streetable 10.5:1 360 for my sons "65" Valiant.

This is to be a moderate budget streetable daily driver to run on 93 octane pump gas. It will see ocasional strip use & I want it to terrorize The new Mustang GTs. I want to keep the engine work within $5000.

The car will be a sleeper & will maintain a stock appearance similar to this.

Here is the combo I have in mind. Let's say it would be coupled W/ about a 2500 RPM stall, Torqueflite W/3.91 axle ratio 8 3/4" diff.

I would start out W/a 360 LA block/rods/crank. Line bore the mains, square up the deck & take it to 0.00" W/the KB pistons. Recondition the rods W/ARP rod bolts & free floating wrist pins. The bore & crank would be cleaned up to OEM clearances.

• Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, 63cc chambers/171cc int runners/77cc ex runners 2.02/1.60 valves
• Summit Street/Strip Phase III Dual plane Intake manifold. (similar to Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap)
• KB 107040 Hypereutectic flat top pistons @ 0.00" deck, .0015" clearance.
• .050 " copper head gasket
• Edelbrock "Thunder" 800 CFM AVS carb.
• Dougs Full length ceramic coated headers.

What would be a good flat tappet cam for this set up? I am thinking Comp 480H. Can I run 1.6 rockers on the LA? I want to twist 6200 RPM out of it W/mid range torque & drivability being foremost.

Would this combo make a drivable 450 HP @ the crank?

Opinions please?

What quench clearance are you going to have? .035 or .065?
Youdo not need copper head gaskets - the Felpro will work or a better choice with dissimilar metals is the Cometics.
Why settle for a cam off the shelf - contact Racer Brown or Straightline performance. Bullet Cams have a lot more selection too.
Fro the price difference on a new build - go Diamond or Probe or any number of other forged pistons for the build.
For that light car up the TC to a 3-3200stall and a 650 mighty demon carb will make a very happy combo. 3.91sg w/7 1/2"B-B x 15" steelies and 255 x 60s will fit for the street.
Have fun :thumbup:

 

[VIOLENT\6]

I second the 1.5 rocker ratio. The combo you describe with a XE274 cam and a good flowing dual plane (I would buy the made in USA Edelbrock over the Chineese knock-off, but thats just me). You should have well over 400 streetable horsepower. Other thoughts... Subframe connectors; you will twist that little Valiant into a knot with that engine. A 904 will live behind that engine IF put together well, but a stock junkyard trans will go away pretty quick. A big cooler will help, especially if you run an agressive converter. Which brings up the converter, spend money here! 2500 RPM seems a bit low, there are some streetable, efficient 3000+ RPM converters being run by regular posters on this board, but they aint cheap.

Your son should have enough car to put the Mustangs away, and even get kicked off the dragstrip for not running a cage. Low 12's shouldnt be out of reach.

Keep the car looking totally stock on the outside, including steel wheels and dog dishes. BUT, take every "Valiant" emblem off and get a custom replacement made which says "Violent".

Can you elaborate on the subframe connectors?

Will the 904 "bolt into the chassis. I do not want to do any chopping.

Yep, the steel wheels & "dog dishes" will stay. The car is going to be a total sleeper.

 

[ValiantMike]

Heres an article on the frame connectors.

 

[VIOLENT\6]

I think you will find that the Eagle SIR rod will be less expensive than have your stock rods reworked. They come with ARP cap screws and are set up for floating pins. Plus they are matched for weight which will make balancing the rotating assembly easier.If your goal is mid range and driveability I wouldn't go any bigger that 750 cfm on the carb. I have a 360 which makes approx 370 HP and have been swapping between a 600, 725 and 750 carb and keep going back to the 600 because of the throttle reponse and driveability.

Where can I get a good price on the Eagle SIR rods. Some tech info would be nice too.

Any links?

 

[ValiantMike]

Here it is.
http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/connectors.shtml

 

[VIOLENT\6]

What quench clearance are you going to have? .035 or .065?Youdo not need copper head gaskets - the Felpro will work or a better choice with dissimilar metals is the Cometics.
Why settle for a cam off the shelf - contact Racer Brown or Straightline performance. Bullet Cams have a lot more selection too.
Fro the price difference on a new build - go Diamond or Probe or any number of other forged pistons for the build.
For that light car up the TC to a 3-3200stall and a 650 mighty demon carb will make a very happy combo. 3.91sg w/7 1/2"B-B x 15" steelies and 255 x 60s will fit for the street.
Have fun :thumbup:

Quech area will be the thickness of the head gasket, in this case, .050" I need @ least that much to keep the compression ratio down to just under 10.6:1. Just what is the maximum piston/head deck clearance to still get the quench effect? I remember .035" being the minimum for an auto transmission car, but I don't recall the maximum. If I can use a little more, I would consider leaving a bit on the block, maybe .010"? That would take the compression ratio down to a more comfortable 10.3:1.


I prefer the closer running clearance of cast pistons for longer ring life in a daily driver. This will be a N/A only engine, no dope & it will be brolken in carefully.

 

[VIOLENT\6]

hey, for 5 grand just buy a crate motor from mother mopar.

Because I can build better engine @ a higher compression ratio W/more horsepower.

Besides, the $5000 includes a carburater & ceramic coated headers.

A 390 HP crate engine would cost $5800 + another $1200 for the carb & headers. A total of $7000.

 

[VIOLENT\6]

Here it is.
http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/connectors.shtml

Looks like a good mod, cheap too.

I will definately be considering this.

 

[C130 Chief]

Do a search here and on bigblockdart.com for subframe connectors. If the car was an auto from the factory, it had a 904. A 727 will basically bolt in, although there may be minor floor tweaking involved. Nothing outwardly visible.

As for quench, there are a few variables such as RPM, rod material and clearance. Generally you want no less than .030 and the effect goes away beyond .050 or so. A standard Fel-Pro composition head gasket has a compressed thickness of about .043, so most builders zero deck and call it good. Now, if you were to run reverse deflector pistons and open iron heads, some simple math might be needed. 10.5 compression with tight quench, and completely deburred aluminum heads should be fine on pump premium.

 

[VIOLENT\6]

Do a search here and on bigblockdart.com for subframe connectors. If the car was an auto from the factory, it had a 904. A 727 will basically bolt in, although there may be minor floor tweaking involved. Nothing outwardly visible.

As for quench, there are a few variables such as RPM, rod material and clearance. Generally you want no less than .030 and the effect goes away beyond .050 or so. A standard Fel-Pro composition head gasket has a compressed thickness of about .043, so most builders zero deck and call it good. Now, if you were to run reverse deflector pistons and open iron heads, some simple math might be needed. 10.5 compression with tight quench, and completely deburred aluminum heads should be fine on pump premium.

The car is almost completely original except for an aftermarket radio & 1 speaker. He!! it even had 1 of the old polished stainless OEM Anco wiper arms on it.

So the 904 IS the OEM transmission?

Would it be possible to beef 1 up enough to hold up behind 400+ crank HP? The nearest drag strip is 1 1/2 hours away so the car would not see that many full out 1/4 mile passes. 5 or 6 trips to the track a year would be about it.

I do not want to do anything non reversible. I'm not too enthused about modifying the tunnel. If I was willing to do that, I would just opt for a 4 speed or maybe even a T-56. I can live W/the subframe connecters. If done carefully I think they could be removed if my son ever decided to restore the car.

 

[rumblefish360]

Great advice going on here.

IMO, use the Comp HL series cam because THAT series cam takes full advanyage of the .904 lifter or go to Huges for one of there cams.
Get the cam with a duration to match the cars driving rpm. It works in conjunction with gear ratio and tire size.
Then get the cam with as much lift as the head can handle.
1.5 rockers!
Fle_pro makes a .039 thick gasket. Better yet, get a comteic in just your spec. .040 is a good thickness.
IMO, I'd do a 750 cfm and remove the choke and put an extreme aircleaner on top w/ an K&N stub stack. I have had good workings with this combo. Hood clearance could be an issue to get it to work best. The stub stack likes some head room.

 

[65s]

Is your Valiant a column shift or console? It's a cable shifted tranny, so if you want to keep your factory console you will want to stick with a 1965 cable shifted V8 A904. If you switch to linkage shifted, you'll have to change other stuff...that's all.

I plan for a 340 into my '65 Barracuda and I'll keep my cable shifted 904 but have it gone over by a performance tranny shop I know.

 

[VIOLENT\6]

Is your Valiant a column shift or console? It's a cable shifted tranny, so if you want to keep your factory console you will want to stick with a 1965 cable shifted V8 A904. If you switch to linkage shifted, you'll have to change other stuff...that's all.

I plan for a 340 into my '65 Barracuda and I'll keep my cable shifted 904 but have it gone over by a performance tranny shop I know.

Breakfast time! :coffee2:

Sounds like finding a transmission that will live W/the 400+ HP 360 & fit into the Valiant W/O chopping will be the biggest challenge.

The shifter is a column shift, does that make my choices any better?

 

[VIOLENT\6]

Great advice going on here.

IMO, use the Comp HL series cam because THAT series cam takes full advanyage of the .904 lifter or go to Huges for one of there cams.
Get the cam with a duration to match the cars driving rpm. It works in conjunction with gear ratio and tire size.
Then get the cam with as much lift as the head can handle.
1.5 rockers!
Fle_pro makes a .039 thick gasket. Better yet, get a comteic in just your spec. .040 is a good thickness.
IMO, I'd do a 750 cfm and remove the choke and put an extreme aircleaner on top w/ an K&N stub stack. I have had good workings with this combo. Hood clearance could be an issue to get it to work best. The stub stack likes some head room.[/QUOT]

I think I like the Comp 275HL. I want to run 3.91 axle gears & a mild stall.

Drivability is a big factor to me. This will be my son's daily driver.

The ".904 lifter" you refer to, can you enlighten me?

I'm not new to engine building, but way back in "72" when I had my 340 Dart 4-speed, I hadn't delved into the engine.

I'm new to the technical side of the SM Chryslers.

 

[dgc333]

Where can I get a good price on the Eagle SIR rods. Some tech info would be nice too.

Any links?

http://www.eaglerod.com/

The SIR rods are an I-beam design that are bushed for floating pins and are held together with ARP cap screws and are rated for 500HP. I got mine from Mancini Racing for $219.00.

I was going to have my stock rods reconditioned and have ARP bolts installed but the machine shop doing my work suggested that I check out the SIR rod as an alternative that I could save a few bucks on.

 

[moper]

Well, I see some good ideas. I think I would goi this way tho:
The flat tops yeild too high compression ratios for my taste. 10.6ish static, little (anything bigger than .045 is too much to me) quench, and a dynamic of 9:1. at least .5-.8 too high for pump fuel. Nevermind cheap (read as teenage kid..lol) pump fuel. With a torquey cam, I would go a little lower. I dont use SIR rods for several reasons, and it's not worth a spirited debate, just my choice. I would buy a set of Magnum 360 rods (maybe find them free??) and run the KB232 piston, with the quench pad milled off. The reason for Magnum rods is, you will need to have rods redone anyway, and the pistons are designed for Magnum width on the pin end, which is narrower than LA rods. Run those psitons at zero deck with no quench pad, and with the right .039 composite gasket, you are perfect. On the heads, I would mill them .020 to get the chamebrs to 58cc. That comes to a 9.6:1 static, 8.1:1 dynamic engine that with a typical .480-type cam will make over 400hp, 450+ torque, and do it on pump 87. Cam choice will make difference. The XE grinds are made for higher low-rpm cylinder pressure. They will have a higher dynamic compression, but trying to get figures for intake valve closing point @ .050 lift from Comp is like pulling teeth. So I didnt calculate that with the Comp cams. I also run windage tray packages in all my small blocks. I would also drop the carb size down to 750.