How much would I lose?

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metallidart

metallidart

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How much would I lose going from a single plane, i.e. Holley Strip Dominator, to a dual plane, i.e. MP aluminum?

Especially if I have w2 heads? (both intakes are w2 lol)

Here is my combo:
--1970 340 block bored/stroked to 422 cid (JE pistons, Eagle H-beams, Scat forged crank. Zero deck ft with a slightly higher compression ht than off-the-shelf JE Pistons (still not sure how that works, but it is on my JE receipt that I got from the PO) main studs/girdle, sonic checked, etc etc. It will last a while.)
--Comp custom solid 250/254 at .050, .584/.568 lift, 275/288 adv, 104ls,
I don't have the heads in front of me yet, but here is what I know: 810E heads, will be ported by me. Maybe. Unless I can scrape up the money to send them out. 1.6 MP roller rockers. The heads are open chamber, dual bolt pattern. Have "Mopar" and "w2" cast into them. Flat rocker stands would make them the "race" head, as far as I can tell.
--as for headers, I will get the best I can afford...they will be at least 1 3/4. Carb, at least an 850 Holley. Yeah, I just sold the exact same stuff last December. Crap.

Anyway, I don't think this will be a super-high revving engine, as the cam is on the small side for that many cubes. I think the heads will flow great for the cam, could probably use a bigger cam, but its what I have. All in all, I think it sounds like a good combo...right?

Back to original question. How much power would I lose going to the MP W2 aluminum dual plane? The reason is this. I have this sick, disturbed image of painting the whole thing blue (like what was in my 73 Dart Sport 340), with the dual plane, stock type valve covers (I'm sure I'd have some re-working going on there), etc. Only the trained eye would see the differences from stock, otherwise it would look like an ordinary sb with big headers and a holley. But, I'd like to run deep into the 11's also.

What do you guys think?

I know a lot depends on the trans/converter/gears/etc. I'm saying if it was all set up right. Heck, give me some opinions on that too. Drivetrain is up in the air right now, I have so many options. I would love to have a 3.23 geared 11 second car, but I doubt that will happen. I may even go 4-speed. I dunno.
 
Wow! That's alot to digest :D. I love the sleeper theme your considering. 11's, probably. 3.23's....humm, maybe not. This is a cool build. I'll think about it and get back if i can add some meaningful input. To answer the main question.....you will lose some with the DP no doubt, but i think it can still work :thumblef:.
 
I had a dual plane once and did the same thing. I painted it to match the engine etc.. What I did was milled out the center section and made it a single plane. Worked good for me. Just a thought...
 
OldmanRick said:
Wow! That's alot to digest :D. I love the sleeper theme your considering. 11's, probably. 3.23's....humm, maybe not. This is a cool build. I'll think about it and get back if i can add some meaningful input. To answer the main question.....you will lose some with the DP no doubt, but i think it can still work :thumblef:.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'd love to hear some input. I know, the 3.23's are just a dream :D but I guess it kind of gives you an idea of the "violent streetabilty" I'd like to get from this engine! lol Actually, 3.73s in my 489 case with one of the Eaton Tru-Trac diffs is kind of what I was thinking about. And you are right...that is a lot to digest lol, I get a little excited thinking about my engine, and the darn ADHD kicks my thoughts all over the place! haha

Demon416 said:
I had a dual plane once and did the same thing. I painted it to match the engine etc.. What I did was milled out the center section and made it a single plane. Worked good for me. Just a thought...
Click to expand...

I had an LD340 on my last 360, painted engine color, etc, I just loved the way it looked. I didn't think about milling down the center, although I have heard of it being done. Hmmm....

A part of me is afraid to do much to an intake other than gasket match it. I've never really taken the time to understand them, other than the basics, I guess. Time for some research.

Mupoo said:
As much as this article is working with a 383, its comparing single plane manifolds & duel plane.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_0712_mopar_intake_manifold_comparo/viewall.html
Click to expand...

That is an interesting, and suprising, article! Really makes you think. I have heard so much about how small block strokers really like single planes, that I had dismissed the idea of mine having a dual plane until I saw one for sale. Especially with the W2 heads.

All this brainstorming is changing my build in my head lol. Kind of seeing it with black steelies/caps, big drag radials, stock color/black top/scoop....here is my build for the rest of the car so far.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=218877
 
metallidart said:
How much would I lose going from a single plane, i.e. Holley Strip Dominator, to a dual plane, i.e. MP aluminum?

Especially if I have w2 heads? (both intakes are w2 lol)

Here is my combo:
--1970 340 block bored/stroked to 422 cid (JE pistons, Eagle H-beams, Scat forged crank. Zero deck ft with a slightly higher compression ht than off-the-shelf JE Pistons (still not sure how that works, but it is on my JE receipt that I got from the PO) main studs/girdle, sonic checked, etc etc. It will last a while.)
--Comp custom solid 250/254 at .050, .584/.568 lift, 275/288 adv, 104ls,
I don't have the heads in front of me yet, but here is what I know: 810E heads, will be ported by me. Maybe. Unless I can scrape up the money to send them out. 1.6 MP roller rockers. The heads are open chamber, dual bolt pattern. Have "Mopar" and "w2" cast into them. Flat rocker stands would make them the "race" head, as far as I can tell.
--as for headers, I will get the best I can afford...they will be at least 1 3/4. Carb, at least an 850 Holley. Yeah, I just sold the exact same stuff last December. Crap.

Anyway, I don't think this will be a super-high revving engine, as the cam is on the small side for that many cubes. I think the heads will flow great for the cam, could probably use a bigger cam, but its what I have. All in all, I think it sounds like a good combo...right?

Back to original question. How much power would I lose going to the MP W2 aluminum dual plane? The reason is this. I have this sick, disturbed image of painting the whole thing blue (like what was in my 73 Dart Sport 340), with the dual plane, stock type valve covers (I'm sure I'd have some re-working going on there), etc. Only the trained eye would see the differences from stock, otherwise it would look like an ordinary sb with big headers and a holley. But, I'd like to run deep into the 11's also.

What do you guys think?

I know a lot depends on the trans/converter/gears/etc. I'm saying if it was all set up right. Heck, give me some opinions on that too. Drivetrain is up in the air right now, I have so many options. I would love to have a 3.23 geared 11 second car, but I doubt that will happen. I may even go 4-speed. I dunno.
Click to expand...
You'd likley hurt it up top with the intake change but your cam is smallish(are your sure the LSA is 104?) But I don't see a problem running mid 11's in an A body(3100-3200lbs) with 3.23 gear. Years ago I had to slow my junky 408 A body down(no roll bar,street car) and the way to do it was leaving in second gear and disconnecting the secondaries on the carb,it ran 11.50's @ 117mph in detuned condition. A good converter will cover some issues as well. I'd recommend a good(not expensive) 904, PTC converter and 3.55's with 26-28" tires and mid 11's or better are cake.
 
goldmember said:
You'd likley hurt it up top with the intake change but your cam is smallish(are your sure the LSA is 104?) But I don't see a problem running mid 11's in an A body(3100-3200lbs) with 3.23 gear. Years ago I had to slow my junky 408 A body down(no roll bar,street car) and the way to do it was leaving in second gear and disconnecting the secondaries on the carb,it ran 11.50's @ 117mph in detuned condition. A good converter will cover some issues as well. I'd recommend a good(not expensive) 904, PTC converter and 3.55's with 26-28" tires and mid 11's or better are cake.
Click to expand...

Awesome! That's what I like to hear! I thought the lsa sounded odd at 104, I purchased the cam from another member on here. I took the numbers off of the back of the cam and called comp, they emailed me the spec card. I actually emailed them again, recently, about getting a cam that would bleed off more pressure, and the one they recommended was almost exactly like this one! lol. I think the cam was spec'd originally for a circle-track style 340, as it had w2 heads, but a small 500cfm alcohol carb. Right now, I have a new (well, rebuilt with good parts) 904, I would just want to put a manual vb in it. I wanted to go with a 26" tire, and well, your combo is really close to what my original plans are/were! Thanks for the input! What size carb would you say would be a good match for this? Also, do you think it would run those times with the dual plane? If so, I'm all for getting it.
 
metallidart said:
Awesome! That's what I like to hear! I thought the lsa sounded odd at 104, I purchased the cam from another member on here. I took the numbers off of the back of the cam and called comp, they emailed me the spec card. I actually emailed them again, recently, about getting a cam that would bleed off more pressure, and the one they recommended was almost exactly like this one! lol. I think the cam was spec'd originally for a circle-track style 340, as it had w2 heads, but a small 500cfm alcohol carb. Right now, I have a new (well, rebuilt with good parts) 904, I would just want to put a manual vb in it. I wanted to go with a 26" tire, and well, your combo is really close to what my original plans are/were! Thanks for the input! What size carb would you say would be a good match for this? Also, do you think it would run those times with the dual plane? If so, I'm all for getting it.[/QUOTE I'm talking dual plane intake and junk heads. Ran 10.70's with 4.10 and using all 3 gears and 4 bbls of carb. Mid 11's in an A body is rediculously easy even with stock cubes and old iron heads. Your way ahead of that mess.The cam will die early with too tight lsa and smallish lobes,but for low rpm grunt may work well.
Click to expand...
 
Demon416 said:
I had a dual plane once and did the same thing. I painted it to match the engine etc.. What I did was milled out the center section and made it a single plane. Worked good for me. Just a thought...
Click to expand...

I'm going to sound like a pompous *** here, but milling the divider does not make it a single plane. The name dual plane comes from the over n under runner arrangement not the centre divider.
 
goldmember said:
I'm talking dual plane intake and junk heads. Ran 10.70's with 4.10 and using all 3 gears and 4 bbls of carb. Mid 11's in an A body is rediculously easy even with stock cubes and old iron heads. Your way ahead of that mess.The cam will die early with too tight lsa and smallish lobes,but for low rpm grunt may work well.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the guy I got it from said it was a 3500-6300 cam in the 340, so I'm guessing I won't be shifting much higher than that in the stroker. He shifted at 67/6900 rpm in the 340. Another reason I was thinking of the dual plane, seems like it would work really well with the rpm range. I really want the low rpm grunt, I'll be putting an 8 3/4 in it and I always have 2.76-3.23 sets lying around, but I do want to put one together with some steeper gears just to see what happens. But, I may just put it together with 3.55's and sell the rest of the stuff, be happy driving it lol.

Thanks for the input! My income tax refund can't get here soon enough...
 
MoparAnglia said:
I'm going to sound like a pompous *** here, but milling the divider does not make it a single plane. The name dual plane comes from the over n under runner arrangement not the centre divider.
Click to expand...

Nah, you didn't sound like a pompous ***...I had the volume turned down! lol :mrgreen: Just messing with ya! I think you may have mis-interpreted what he meant, tho. I think he was just telling me how to get a little more HP out of the dual plane, not really turn it into a single plane. Basically to try to even the playing field a little more between the two different styles of intake.
 
metallidart said:
Nah, you didn't sound like a pompous ***...I had the volume turned down! lol :mrgreen: Just messing with ya! I think you may have mis-interpreted what he meant, tho. I think he was just telling me how to get a little more HP out of the dual plane, not really turn it into a single plane. Basically to try to even the playing field a little more between the two different styles of intake.
Click to expand...

No, I got what he was saying :toothy8:. I was just pointing out that the terminology itself was wrong.
Nothing wrong with the modification, particularly if you're running a carb a little on the small side.
 
If you have room forget about removing the divider,add a 1-3" open spacer.
 
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