Hughes rockers

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j par

j par

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Pulled the trigger on the hughes rockers. Soooo, hopefully I'll get a massive stroke of luck and the pushrods I used with the 273 rockers will fit. With the rollbar in and all the other parts almost hear it's getting to be time to put this puzzle back together. Time! I need more time!
 
Jason there is never enough time , trying to get my race car painted that I blew up at the ants last summer before my 430 strokes goes in next month.
 
you never know when the clock runs out so spend it wisely, Family, then car, then work!!

good luck brother.
 
Spent most the winter so far working my A$$ off paying for all the parts I wanted. This weekend I'll get started again. Head gaskets should be here today and I'll start with bolting those back on. Then the "budget Dana" needs to go in. End seals, rear cover, axles, break plates, break lines, new ss springs (take old /6 one's out), cheap summit drag shocks - set on middle setting? Seems like a good starting point ? Finish painting roll bar and frame connectors and I'll start it all off with a trip to the parts store for carb cleaner, oil ........... LOL that should eat up most the weekend.....
thanks for the luck ! I'll need it.
 
huh - I just bought head gaskets - $41 each - jeeeeezus. Like you, nowhere near enough time.. ya just gotta keep pluggin' at it.. good luck & enjoy it.
 
Good call on the Hughes rockers.
I have them on a couple of engines.
No complaints.
 
I was going to get the speedmaster 1.6 rockers as 70aarcuda seemed to have good luck with them, but I called and called and it's been three months and they're still out of stock.
 
Put the reworked heads on and dana 60 cover on. Getting stuff going.
oh boy what's going on ! I'm a new member ? ??
 
As far as shimming side to side, I used hughes shim kit and rocker shaft hold down kit. The shafts get torqued down and measurements are taken for side to side clearance using a feeler gauge with the rockers roller being as centered as possible over the valve. They give you recommended clearances. This helps the rocker to not put any unnecessary side pressures upon the valve stem through its stroke causing wear. The ideal rocker opens the valve in a perfect linear path
 
Great choice in product, bought a single for mock up on a LA engine. Great product ,for the money.
 
What the heck! The Polish flag? Seriously? Can I get staff to intercede here and help me figure out what the heck's going on? Thank you j par
 
T56MaxTorq said:
As far as shimming side to side, I used hughes shim kit and rocker shaft hold down kit. The shafts get torqued down and measurements are taken for side to side clearance using a feeler gauge with the rockers roller being as centered as possible over the valve. They give you recommended clearances. This helps the rocker to not put any unnecessary side pressures upon the valve stem through its stroke causing wear. The ideal rocker opens the valve in a perfect linear path
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Yes yes I totally get the side to side. I actually ordered some of those shims for my 273 rockers and that's kind of the easy part. I guess I should have been more clear that I really don't look forward to like stacking shims on the pedestals 2 bring the Roller tips in or out. Did you have to do any of that? And thank you for your experiences. ..
 
j par said:
They talk a lot about geometry and getting it right. My question is how much shimming side to side or up did you do ?
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A lot! I have Hughes 1.6 rockers on my motor, took a long time to get it right. A lot of on and off with the rockers and checking with feeler gauges. It's not super critical to get them exactly centered over the valve tip but you have to watch for binding so don't make them too tight.

Using the PVC pipe they ship with the arms helps to keep things in order.

Geometry is a whole other issue that can get pretty involved. You can leave some power on the table if you're way off. I would take the time to check it just to see if it's close. I spent a LOT of time on this. I checked the wipe pattern and it was good. I installed the rocker shims to see if it was different/better and it wasn't. YRMV so don't take my case as fact.

If you can read through this page without your head exploding then you will have a better idea of what you're looking for with rocker arm geometry.

http://www.mid-lift.com/intro-mid-lift.htm
 
maybe im missing something but why would you shim rockers up?


wouldn't you just adjust your lash or shorten your push rods?
 
rmchrgr said:
A lot! I have Hughes 1.6 rockers on my motor, took a long time to get it right. A lot of on and off with the rockers and checking with feeler gauges. It's not super critical to get them exactly centered over the valve tip but you have to watch for binding so don't make them too tight.

Using the PVC pipe they ship with the arms helps to keep things in order.

Geometry is a whole other issue that can get pretty involved. You can leave some power on the table if you're way off. I would take the time to check it just to see if it's close. I spent a LOT of time on this. I checked the wipe pattern and it was good. I installed the rocker shims to see if it was different/better and it wasn't. YRMV so don't take my case as fact.

If you can read through this page without your head exploding then you will have a better idea of what you're looking for with rocker arm geometry.

http://www.mid-lift.com/intro-mid-lift.htm
Click to expand...
Did you read this part of that link ? WRONG GEOMETRY TWO: (Or, what NOT to do if you own a Chrysler!)*As if the above (WRONG GEOMETRY ONE) isn't enough, my old friend of 40 years who actually knows better (as do Comp Cams), plays on words with web caption humor to get his point across of how wonderful he thinks "REAL" rockers should be installed. This page for the poor Chrysler crowd that Dave Hughes caters to is making a reference to "middle of the valve at mid-lift" as what NOT to do, as if that is what we propose to be correct. Throughout the MID-LIFT.COM web site there are references and instructions that specifically state that setting the roller in the middle of the valve as any reference to correct "mid-lift" geometry is NOT relevant, and I will say it again. It makes no difference where the roller is at atop the valve, and using the "middle of the valve" as a band-aid means of false security that you've got correct geometry is a big mistake. However, having all three tangent points connected to provide 90 degrees with BOTH sides of the rocker, at "mid-lift" is relevant, is correct, and is "REAL" rocker geometry. Dave skirts this small point, and perhaps he just doesn't get it; because he feels compelled to reassure himself by adding that other people believe his twisted explanation too. So take a close look at photos and rhetoric of what "WRONG" geometry looks like. (Thanks, David.)**^
 
Cope said:
maybe im missing something but why would you shim rockers up?


wouldn't you just adjust your lash or shorten your push rods?
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So as I understand it- as the rockers push down on the top of the valve they sweep and sweep out as I understand ? Soooo, again as I understand if the tip of the roller is already centered or worse towards the outside- you could risk the roller running off the top of the valve stem?? The remedy being to shim up the shaft to bring the rockers a little inside the the center so at mid- swep the roller is centered ??
PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong because this is what I've learned from reading the internet or at least the way I understand it.
 
You would only use shims that would lift the shaft upward if you cannot obtain a proper wipe pattern with the roller over the valve stem by using the rocker adjuster and pushrod. Or in a case where the spring retainer interferes with the rocker. I fortunately didn't have to do this and I had a zero deck block, roller cam, and RHS heads. Some folks may have different results with different combos, that's why we take measurements. You MUST use a solid checking lifter that you can adjust for the estimated preload you wish to run on your hydraulic ones. For example, take the lifter you wish to install and measure from the bottom of the lifter to the bottom of the cup (you can use a small ball bearing and deduct the diameter of the ball from the overall measurement) And then deduct the recommended lifter preload from that total. Set the adjustable checking lifter to this measurement (you can also use the ball to help set the measurement); use an adjustable pushrod and set your rocker adjuster with a couple threads showing on top of the nut to start. Put a bit of grease or even take a sharpee and "paint" the top of the valve stem. With the cam on base circle, take the slack out of the pushrod to tighten everything up without moving the valve (you should have a dial indicator on the spring retainer in the same linear path as the valve stem) Now roller the engine over to make the pattern. Adjust the rocker adjuster 1/4 - 1/2 a turn each time and repeat until the pattern is as centered as possible and you obtain the maximum valve lift possible. Now check the other valves to see if that pushrod length works for all valves. Takes a long time and patience, but is totally worth it, you will notice that an improper setup robs valve lift. This is how to find the perfect pushrod length, or as perfect as it will get with our geometry. All limitations should be included in the instructions from hughes or on their site.
 
j par said:
Did you read this part of that link ? WRONG GEOMETRY TWO: (Or, what NOT to do if you own a Chrysler!)*As if the above (WRONG GEOMETRY ONE) isn't enough, my old friend of 40 years who actually knows better (as do Comp Cams), plays on words with web caption humor to get his point across of how wonderful he thinks "REAL" rockers should be installed. (Thanks, David.)**^
Click to expand...

Like I said, if you can get through the link without your head exploding...

You have to take this stuff with a grain of salt and decide for yourself what's right. Checking all this geometry stuff is not the easiest thing to do. Trust me, I did it. It takes patience.

You are re-using pushrods from another engine so whatever you get what you get. If you do go through with all the measuring and find that your 'geometry' is off, you might be able to 'correct' some of it with shimming the rockers up. But, you would likely never get it 100%. Correct geometry starts with the correct length pushrod installed with the intended valve gear.
 
rmchrgr said:
Like I said, if you can get through the link without your head exploding...

You have to take this stuff with a grain of salt and decide for yourself what's right. Checking all this geometry stuff is not the easiest thing to do. Trust me, I did it. It takes patience.

You are re-using pushrods from another engine so whatever you get what you get. If you do go through with all the measuring and find that your 'geometry' is off, you might be able to 'correct' some of it with shimming the rockers up. But, you would likely never get it 100%. Correct geometry starts with the correct length pushrod installed with the intended valve gear.
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it`s a huge pain in the *** to do if you haven`t done it before. I like to keep the rocker rollers travel centered on the top of the valve, or as close as possible. the side shimming of the rockers to get them centered on the valve stem is the worst part, especially if using all aftermarket parts. be sure to check push rod clearance in the head, that was a pain too !
 
I'm hearing you and going be looking for everything ya'all are talking about. Like I said I'm hoping to get lucky with the pushrods (custom smith brothers), if not I'll just have to get new ones. Tracking number says wensday for the rockers. Spent Sunday getting the rearend together with the new axles and springs. Got it under the car, but the rear bushings needed replacement. The parts store should have them by the time I get off work today. If so I can finish up that and the breaks and shocks. The plan is to get the rockers mid week and put the motor and tranny in this weekend - we'll see ??!??
View attachment 20160221_153450.jpg

View attachment 20160221_162326.jpg
 
T56MaxTorq said:
You would only use shims that would lift the shaft upward if you cannot obtain a proper wipe pattern with the roller over the valve stem by using the rocker adjuster and pushrod. Or in a case where the spring retainer interferes with the rocker.
Click to expand...


I don't know what head he's using but with a traditional Mopar shaft mount rocker arm system the adjuster and push rod length have nothing to do with roller sweep on the valve tip. Once you have the rocker arms the only thing that will affect where the roller sweeps is moving the shaft.
 
Here is my 'wipe pattern' below. This is pretty much what you are looking for. Maybe some of the pros out there might disagree but for my application, it was not necessary to screw around with it any more. My combo is RHS heads with 2.02 valves, Comp solid flat tappet, zero decked factory 340 block, Fel Pro 1008 head gasket, Hughes 1.6 Rocker arms, shafts and hold downs. Don't remember what the I.H. of the springs were but they are pretty stout, I have almost .6" lift.

Prior to ordering pushrods, I mocked up the valvetrain and measured everything with a checking pushrod. I did not torque the heads, just snugged the nuts down. After I was satisfied with how it looked, I sent the checking rod to Hughes and they made the pushrods for me.

I also used this plate from AR Engr. to check the max lift of the valve. You kinda need it to do the 'mid-lift' thing right since you need to verify what the actual mid-lift is. Again, this is a time-consuming process that requires attention to detail and patience.

IMG_0036_zpsuigqwopj.jpg
 
UGH! Yes, it does. But it is wroth every last second you make sure your stuff is on the money. It shows dividends down the road. Your pattern looks freakin fine.
 
justinp61 said:
i don't know what head he's using but with a traditional mopar shaft mount rocker arm system the adjuster and push rod length have nothing to do with roller sweep on the valve tip. Once you have the rocker arms the only thing that will affect where the roller sweeps is moving the shaft.
Click to expand...

x2.
 
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