hughes whiplash cam and other cam opinions

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elitesrock2

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So i'm putting together my 69 dart to daily drive this summer and i'm looking at the hughes whiplash cam for the 383 im gonna build. car is going to be a mild 383, iron cased OD 4 speed and 3.55 8 3/4 rear. lots of highway use. mostly stock rebuild on a 69 383 out of a polara. 906 heads ported alittle bit, 1 3/4 tti headers and 2.5inch exhaust. no power brakes. Anyone run the whiplash cam? I like the radical idle and they seem to back up it with some power too. especially being a 383 dart it won't be lacking much in general. i know ill end up playing with the compression to get the right cylinder pressure being that 69 motors were up there still. will have a stock 4 barrel intake. with a vac secondary holley carb probably a 650 cfm or maybe alittle bigger.
 
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So you have an unknown compression 383 with 3.55 gears you intend to street drive a lot and you want a radical idle / lumpy camshaft.

While this may sound fun to you, my experience is that your fondness will dwindle quickly when you get this combo out on the actual road.

I would highly suggest having your pistons selected before proceeding any further.

Next in line is the potential mismatch carb and intake setup. If you are going to run a 4150 carb run a square bore intake to match it. I'd also steer you far away front a stock holley and vac secondaries.
 
Hi elitesrock2,
I don't personally have a whiplash cam, but I considered getting one for my son and I's project for awhile and read as many reviews as I could. All the reviews except for one youtube review have been very positive for both the small block and big block versions. Given the age of the engine, stock compression may be too high for this cam. Here is a quote from Hughes site.

"Our Whiplash cam is designed for low, basically stock compression engines. This cam will run on pump gas in a 383/400 with 8.5:1 or less compression and iron heads. If your compression is higher than this you may need to use a higher octane race fuel. Your vacuum should be in the 9"-11" range using this cam.
(Figures calculated using stock stroke & compression at 750' altitude.)
"

According to Allpar.com, the compression didn't lower to 8.5 until 1971. I believe 69 had the highest if the information is correct.

Travis
 
Going to see a 400 this weekend in a Duster that has the Whiplash Cam installed. They seem to perform exactly as advertised, bring up the low static compression to a more lumpy/throttle responsive engine. Mid-Top end Range I have no information on.

That being said I would not recommend them, for two major reasons: Cost / Builders don't use them.

Costs are around $350 I believe. Oregon Cam Grinders can give you any profile for $75 plus shipping. I just had them make a Comp 274 from my Core for $90 to my door. Lunati Voodoo Cam/Lifter kit is like $209 to your door.

Second, if you read MRL and IQ52 both competent builders, they don't use these Camshafts. IQ52 posted a 440 low compression build that was excellent without needing these special cams or particularly high compression.

Both of these issues ties to Budget which is the kind of build you seem to be chasing (nothing wrong with that either). 69 is a great year for that 383 setup and copying the 383 Magnum specs will probably get exactly what you want.
 
Have you talked to the guys at Hughes for their recommendations? My brother had good luck with them. They can walk you through a combo with their recommendations for your engine. My brother just built his '74 318 using their iron 1.92 LA-X heads, Wiseco pistons, cam, intake, etc. and the dyno results were 376 hp at 5900 rpm and 371 ft-lbs torque at 4100 rpm. I was pretty impressed to see those numbers. I think the iron LA-X heads and cam had a lot to do with the performance output. Sorry, I don't know which cam number he used, but it wasn't the whiplash.
 
Any of you guys try the nostalgia grinds from comp? I looked at the 280 .474 as an option as well. i had one in a 318 with 360 heads in a ramcharger 4x4 and for as down on compression and lugged down it was with 32s and 3.23s it ran pretty hard when you got it up there. and it sounded awesome. being in a higher compression 383 i think it would be fairly mild and run pretty hard.
 
Nothing wrong with those whiplash or thmpr cams. They give the idle because of the tight LSA. Everything hughes is overpriced IMO.

With a 4 spd the cam selection is pretty wide open. Whatever cam you choose, I'd install it very advanced from whatever the LSA is to get some low end grunt. This is where you can run a larger cam than you may think and trick the engine a bit with the cam advanced a bunch. I install 108 LSA cams at 100-102 all the time. Make the engine run much different than if in at 108.
 
think i found my cam. Dur @ .050” Lift: 222°/234° RR: 1.5/1.5 Gross Lift: .486”/.496” LSA: 112° RPM: 1800 to 6000 Redline: 6500
looks pretty suitable for my application.
crower compu-pro
 
What are the advertised numbers seat to seat?

I don't want to rain on your parade, but that OD box is a 3 plus 1. The ratios are very wide,(3.09-1.67-1.00-.73), like an automatic, but you don't have the TC to help you. The splits are 54% and 60%, and 73 into od
That tranny is a 3plus1 on account of the OD gear is strictly for cruising. I broke two of them. One with a 367, the other with a teener. Both by shifting into them under too much power.
The 3.09 x 3.55 =10.97 is a great starter gear! In laid back driving, typically you will shift at 2800 or so, and that makes the Rs at drop in, to be, .54 x 2800=1512. The road gear at this point is 3.55 x 1.67=5.93. This is a one-two-punch of crap. First your engine is down in the basement as to torque, and secondly it is saddled with what it thinks is a 3.08 rear gear. This is not a whiplash cam combo. That cam will drive your Dcr into the basement, and make a bad situation even worse.
So If the 3.55s and the OD box are staying; Either, A) don't shift at 2800 ever, or B), you are gonna need to pick up the low speed torque on that 383.
> OK you say, but what about shifting at some higher rpm, like 3600? Sure, but realize that at 3600 you are wound out to 26mph and sounding like a Rustang poser. And on the shift into second, the Rs drop to 1944 and you are still stuck with that same 5.93 second gear, that the engine thinks are 3.08s comparred to the regular 4 speed with it's 1.92 second gear ratio. So now your 383 is forced to pull from 1944. Got torque there?; Not much with a whiplash cam that is dumping compression.
Ok so enough chit-chat.
>If you insist on running that combo forget a performance cam. Forget rumpidy-rump. You need a cam, in an engine, that makes gobs of torque right off idle.So for you, that means a very careful marriage of compression and cam and octane. Very careful.
>But when you get it right, it will be awesome cuz second gear will take you to 60mph at about 4400 and the tires will be singing the whole way. I know this, to be a fact, cuz my 367 was built that way at one time, running the same box and gears, and it could do it. Your bigger.
 
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What are the advertised numbers seat to seat?

I don't want to rain on your parade, but that OD box is a 3 plus 1. The ratios are very wide,(3.09-1.67-1.00-.73), like an automatic, but you don't have the TC to help you. The splits are 54% and 60%, and 73 into od
That tranny is a 3plus1 on account of the OD gear is strictly for cruising. I broke two of them. One with a 367, the other with a teener. Both by shifting into them under too much power.
The 3.09 x 3.55 =10.97 is a great starter gear! In laid back driving, typically you will shift at 2800 or so, and that makes the Rs at drop in, to be, .54 x 2800=1512. The road gear at this point is 3.55 x 1.67=5.93. This is a one-two-punch of crap. First your engine is down in the basement as to torque, and secondly it is saddled with what it thinks is a 3.08 rear gear. This is not a whiplash cam combo. That cam will drive your Dcr into the basement, and make a bad situation even worse.
So If the 3.55s and the OD box are staying; Either, A) don't shift at 2800 ever, or B), you are gonna need to pick up the low speed torque on that 383.
> OK you say, but what about shifting at some higher rpm, like 3600? Sure, but realize that at 3600 you are wound out to 26mph and sounding like a Rustang poser. And on the shift into second, the Rs drop to 1944 and you are still stuck with that same 5.93 second gear, that the engine thinks are 3.08s comparred to the regular 4 speed with it's 1.92 second gear ratio. So now your 383 is forced to pull from 1944. Got torque there?; Not much with a whiplash cam that is dumping compression.
Ok so enough chit-chat.
>If you insist on running that combo forget a performance cam. Forget rumpidy-rump. You need a cam, in an engine, that makes gobs of torque right off idle.So for you, that means a very careful marriage of compression and cam and octane. Very careful.
>But when you get it right, it will be awesome cuz second gear will take you to 60mph at about 4400 and the tires will be singing the whole way. I know this, to be a fact, cuz my 367 was built that way at one time, running the same box and gears, and it could do it. Your bigger.
i think you should read up on the whiplash cams. they have monster off idle torque
 
You missed the point!
Two Hundred And Seventy One degrees, seat to seat, for a measly, 222*@050.
So yeah. if you have too much compression, this cam can help you get rid of it.
But that is not the way to build an engine.

Your tranny and gear combo is is a tough cookie to sell. Hey I know all about that combo. I ran it for two summers, but with just about every rear ratio in the catalog from 2.76 to 5.13., and with two cams. I know exactly what that combo needs in a 367. You are at 4.4% bigger. That counts nothing, to this combo.
There are only 2 cures for that tranny; an engine with a very low torque peak, or a GearVendor splitter. I tried both, and loved neither, and now have three of those boxes in my shed to prove it.
But hey, maybe you know something I don't. Go ahead, put that, ahem, cam in there and prove me wrong. At least you'll sound tuff.
 
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Nothing wrong with those whiplash or thmpr cams. They give the idle because of the tight LSA. Everything hughes is overpriced IMO.

That tight lobe separation is also how they work in low compression engines by building the cranking compression.
 
If he got a GVOD he could run a 4.56 rear gear and turn the same RPM he's turning now. Literally...
 
You missed the point!
Two Hundred And Seventy One degrees, seat to seat, for a measly, 222*@050.
So yeah. if you have too much compression, this cam can help you get rid of it.
But that is not the way to build an engine.

Your tranny and gear combo is is a tough cookie to sell. Hey I know all about that combo. I ran it for two summers, but with just about every rear ratio in the catalog from 2.76 to 5.13., and with two cams. I know exactly what that combo needs in a 367. You are at 4.4% bigger. That counts nothing, to this combo.
There are only 2 cures for that tranny; an engine with a very low torque peak, or a GearVendor splitter. I tried both, and loved neither, and now have three of those boxes in my shed to prove it.
But hey, maybe you know something I don't. Go ahead, put that, ahem, cam in there and prove me wrong. At least you'll sound tuff.
do you have any gear splitters laying around that you would be interested in selling?
 
i think you should read up on the whiplash cams. they have monster off idle torque

That's because they typically recommend installing them at 102-104 area instead of the 106-110 most mopar cams get suggest to be installed.

No different from my suggestion of a 108LSA cam in at 100-102. It's the same approach as the whiplash.

No chance I'd install that crower at the ICL I mentioned.
 
I'd install that Crower cam wherever THEY tell you it should be installed in your combo. Honestly, without prior experience with a specific cam/combo or a dyno where you can play around with advancing and retarding a cam, you're really shooting in the dark and hoping for the best. Not saying advancing and retarding is a bad idea, but I'm not really big on guessing. I like to see the black and white.
 
engine masters just made a cam that specs out at 224/230 at .050 502/510 lift on a 110 470hp at 6000 rpm and 467 ft lbs at 4400 rpm. You don't need a massive cam to make good power if you have good heads and intake. i'm going to put a performer rpm intake on instead of a factory. And i will be running a set of ported 906 heads which are a fantastic setup. If i got a gear vendors I could maintain the power range extremely well considering their ratios. And also run a 4.56 gear at near 2000 rpm at 65 mph.
1 1od 2 2od 3 3od 4 4od
3.09 2.40 1.67 1.30 1.00 0.78 0.73 0.57

the combo being a 383 with 906s performer rpm intake with the crower cam specing out at
Dur @ .050” Lift: 222°/234° RR: 1.5/1.5 Gross Lift: .486”/.496” LSA: 112° RPM: 1800 to 6000 Redline: 6500
with a good exhaust, the IRON case 4 speed overdrive and a gear vendors with 4.56 rear gear comes off as a very sellable combo vs all that and a standard od 4 speed with high gearing. now this is not saying i will be pushing the same hp or torque as the engine masters engine as i do not have aluminum heads to run higher compression and other stuff of that nature. But i do think it would be a very good combo.
any of you guys know of a gear vendors for a 4 speed that someone wants to sell?
 
Years ago, we put a Crower 271 HDP in my younger brothers 70 road runner 440 with 6 pack pistons and it was a great cam. We didn't go too large because of the power brakes. It had a little chop at idle, but still loads of torque. We didn't dyno it, but it would burn tires with ease. It would probably also work well in a 383 and probably have a little more chop at idle. Crower #32242. It's usually a good idea to install any cam about 2 degrees ahead of spec to compensate for initial chain stretch.
 
The reason I don't still use the A833O/D box and GVOD combo is because the ratios are so far apart in the main box, that my 367 didn't like that, And reving to nearly 4000 to grab second sounds ridiculous. Splitting worked excellent, cuz with the GVOD I could drive it normally. However Splitting was kindof MANDATORY, and that sucked. The splitter does not shift like a regular box. It is driven by hydraulic pressure, which it takes off the driveshaft. That means A) you cannot take off in a split gear ratio;there is no shift pressure, and B) it takes time to build pressure. With 3.55s there is barely enough driveshaft-rpm at the gearchange to make the shift, and it is slow going in.So you have to learn to compensate with the clutch, so you don't burn out your mega-dollar device. Splitting second to direct, there is now plenty of pressure. But if you do not clutch it during the shift, it is a POW! right now, chirp the tires, neck-snapping shift.Every time. So you have to learn to use the clutch on this shift too.But the GVOD doesn't shift the second you punch the button. There is a few microseconds between the request and the delivery, so you have to learn to compensate the clutching.
Now at anything but civilized driving, this is not a problem.
Also, the higher the rear gear was, the less compensation was required.
Also, the CFII disc will either shake you fillings out, or tear up U-joints and stuff,when the GVOD shifts like this.
But some90% of the time I was driving civilized. It was a lotta fun for one summer, but then I was done with full-time gear-splitting.
One of the reasons for me to try and make that combo work was to make it possible to start in First over.I already knew that my engine liked a 10/1 starter gear. This is like a 3.09 low and 3.23s. Well, I wanted to run the track, trapping in direct, using 5 ratios to hit about 112mph.That would take 4.88s@6800. I didn't think I could hit 112, but I wanted to be ready to. So the starter gear would be 4.88 x.78x3.09=11.76,close enough I said. (It turns out that first gear at 655rpm is 3.5mph in this gear;walking speed). So now my road ratios were;15.08-11.76-8.15-6.36-4.88-3.81-2.78.Seven useable gears. It looked so good on paper! The first 5 for the track. Skip granny on the street, using the ratios from 11.76 to 6.36 around town. And going from 4.88 to 2.78 when hitting the hiway; that's a nice rpm drop into double OD. I thought I was all set.
Not so fast Elmer. There were three problems that came up.
1) The GVOD would not always hold pressure at a stop-lite so granny gear had to often be employed.This is 15 mph at 2800rpm, and there wasn't always enough pressure to pull a shift under power.So I had to take it easy on the shift.
2) Gear splitting was mandatory
3) You can put full power into the GV, but if you forget to back off into double OD, The A833 od gear responds by giving up all it's teeth in just milliseconds.I forgot......twice.

So that's my GVOD experiment. You learn from my big-money experience.
For my combo, that od box did not work out.

A second reason I wanted to use that combo was to use a smaller cam, but still trap up there in mph. I wanted to use a fast-rate 223 cam cuz I had good experience with it, pulling a lot of MPGs out of her. Obviously the 223 in a 367 does not make big power. But I reasoned that if I could put more average power down in the run, the trapspeed would see that as a bigger engine with a lower average power output over the run. And it worked. So now I had a seven speed, that trapped well yet with a 2.78 final drive, got great mileage. But that granny gear was miserable. I tried 4.30s,3.91s, and finally 3.55s . I gave up the track/street dream. Double-OD was now 1632=65mph, and the 223 cam was quite happy pulling that gear, returning 32mpgUS, not a typo. So I concentrated instead on the 1/8th mile.
This engine, with 4.30s and the od/od pkg went 93 in the 1/8th. It shoulda trapped at about 6500. The tach was reading 7000 from the time I finished babying it out, right through the traps. That's 8% slip. With a stick car. So yeah, a track official came over and said I should lower the tire pressure, cuz it was spinning the whole way down the track.I just said thank-you and headed for the pits;done for the day. The last shift was at 78 mph into second OD.The 325/50-15 DRs spun from there into the traps. My engine does not have that kind of power. I chalked it up to a crappy track, and vowed never to return, and I haven't.
So what was my solution you might ask.
The answer is I got rid of that OD-box.
My next experiment was with a 3.09low standard box with the GVOD again strapped on the back, and running with the 4.30s.The ratios are 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.00.. Well the 3.09x4.30=13.29 was still too much for city driving. I popped in the 3.55s and they have been in there ever since.
First combo (3.09x4.88)..15.08-11.76-8.15-6.36-4.88-3.81------------2.78
New combo (3.09x3.55)............10.97-8.56-6.82-5.32-4.97-3.88-3.55-2.77
Std combo (2.66x4.30s)............1
1.44-8.26-6.02-4.30-------------------3.35
Look sweet to you? Gone is granny, and the first four city ratios are almost identical.And I no longer have to split. And I still have the 6.82s to 1/8th with, and the 2.77 to cruize with. It turns out that the favorite shift sequence is 10.97-6.82-4.97-3.88-2.77;5 gears, with a .71 split into od. I rarely split gears anymore, unless I just want to smoke 'em to 60, then I split 1-2, just cuz I can. The 5.32 and 3.55 are seldom used; only when a cruising speed favors them. 3.55s favor 45mph,5.32s favor 30 mph. Both at 2000rpm.

I am in no wise suggesting that you rush out and get a GVOD. As you can see, I ended up with a non-od box with the GV being used as mostly what it was designed for, just cruising. Obviously it has the potential to help the car trap well, for it's power output. And it can be a lot of fun.
With 4.30s and say a 2.66 low box, there would be no need to split any gears at all, and the 3.35 final-drive ratio is not too bad. But now you have an awful lot of money tied up in just the one gear. IMO a dedicated 5 speed is a better answer.
 
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engine masters just made a cam that specs out at 224/230 at .050 502/510 lift on a 110 470hp at 6000 rpm and 467 ft lbs at 4400 rpm. You don't need a massive cam to make good power if you have good heads and intake.

I agree.
A streeter is a one or two gear car. You never have a massive wind to fight;
you could power up a brick and have fun with modest power.Traction in first is nearly non-existent, so deep gears on the street are a waste; 3.55s and and a 2.66 low, will get you a speeding ticket, almost anywhere in my country. A modest cam like a 220 to 230 is all you will ever need. A fast rate of lift will make it possible to get decent fuel mileage. As will a tighter LSA.
Check this out;
your Whiplash 271/284/112 is 222/234. The simple math says 48* to go from seat to seat, to 050. At 4* advanced the ICA is 63.5, and the overlap is 49.5*
Now lets say you got this on a 108LSA.The new ICA for that, again 4* advanced is 59.5. And the overlap is now 62.5*.That's 4 degrees more time to build compression, and 4 degrees more to extract power on the power stroke, for a bit more mpgs,and the overlap period has jumped 12* making a very real power increase with headers........ Same basic lobes, same basic cam.
But hang on check out those wicked slow ramps. Suppose we found a cam with just 42 degree ramps for the same 222@050. The specs would now be 264/276/108. The ICA is now 56*, and the overlap is now 54*. This same 222 cam now is making still more torque with it's new ICA, and has lost just 6.5 degrees of overlap.
But hang on, what if we went up one cam size to say 230/238/108@ 050 with those same 42* ramps.Now we have a 272/280/108. The new ICA is 60* and the overlap is 60* also, So now, you are still saving 3.5 degrees on the ICA, while getting back the power adding overlap at 60* . AND the big one is that you are up one size in the camming, so you move the power up 200ish rpm, while gaining torque and at least not losing much as to mpgs.
Now are you seeing the Whiplash for what it is?
For a streeter, IMHO, you need the fastest ramps money can buy, A tight LSA cuz it's a one gear deal, the right sized cam for the operating range that the engine is called to do, and whatever lift the grinder is willing to put on those lobes. Then select or build the heads to work with the cam. And finally set the compression ratio to run the gas you want to run. Oh yeah, put some springs on, that will carry that 383 into the rpm realm it wants to live in. There's nothing like taking an engine 1000 rpm or more past its power-peak, just cuz it can, and is able to live up there.
This might sound bassackwards to a guy with dragracing on his mind. But just try driving a dragrace engine on the street,day after day.
 
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the 112 cam is a crower
whiplash cam is refer to atached file

SMC2942BL.jpg
 
the setup really isn't that expensive cam,springs,chain,gaskets and lifters for 500 bucks
 
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